Mega-Thread: 2020 United States General Election

[Louisa Bannon]

Then why do you want Trump to win a second term? Why do you continue to shit all over Biden, when the end result of any conversation began will be Trump in a second term?

There are none so blind as those who will not see.

Look, we can agree to disagree, this is for really real asked and answered. I don't think I am alone in feeling this way. I do think this candidate was engineered a bit. I'm not voting for him.

FWIW, I no longer look upon Warren nor Sanders with favor, they've shown a refusal to do that which must actually be done also. Chris Hedges has suggested that they want to be insider Dems just as much as the Dems apparently want to be the GOP. It's all shifting right, and don't vote that far in that direction from center.

[Edge-]

FWIW, I no longer look upon Warren nor Sanders with favor, they've shown a refusal to do that which must actually be done also.

...because they can understand the need to compromise to achieve their goals, or at least get us on the path to them? Why?

Chris Hedges has suggested that they want to be insider Dems just as much as the Dems apparently want to be the GOP. It's all shifting right, and don't vote that far in that direction from center.

Based on what? What in Sanders career thus far would make him want to be an "insider", for example? Why so sudden, and not 4 years ago?

Where'd he say this, I'd be curious as to his reason why.

[DarkTZeratul]

Fuck you!

No, fuck you!

Jesus Christ, just make out already.

[cubby]

There are none so blind as those who will not see.

Look, we can agree to disagree, this is for really real asked and answered. I don't think I am alone in feeling this way. I do think this candidate was engineered a bit. I'm not voting for him.

FWIW, I no longer look upon Warren nor Sanders with favor, they've shown a refusal to do that which must actually be done also. Chris Hedges has suggested that they want to be insider Dems just as much as the Dems apparently want to be the GOP. It's all shifting right, and don't vote that far in that direction from center.

There is nothing to disagree on. You're fundamentally and categorically wrong. If you think Trump is such an awful President, then he needs to be out of office. Period. Biden is the mechanism for that removal. Not voting for Biden (which includes not voting, voting third party, and voting for Trump) are votes for Trump. Period.

The fact that you don't see this fundamental point is beyond all of us. So you constantly shitting all over Biden to us, demonstrates that for whatever reason, despite your past posts, you are now in favor of Trump continuing to be in office.

There is no disagreement on this issue, because it's a logic solution, NOT a *feels* solution.

[trendlastFurthrist]

...because they can understand the need to compromise to achieve their goals, or at least get us on the path to them? Why?

.

There's no "compromising", Biden has 95% of the policies and negative character traits of Trump. Plus some awful unique baggage of his own.

You aren't "compromising", you are electing a Republican.

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There is nothing to disagree on. You're fundamentally and categorically wrong. If you think Trump is such an awful President, then he needs to be out of office. Period..

NO. Not if that results in the same (or even worse) policies.

You have to be an incredibly superficial and shallow person to view the election solely in terms of removing one individual. It isn't a reality TV show.

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There is no disagreement on this issue, because it's a logic solution, NOT a *feels* solution.

There's no logic there. You are incapable of composing anything other than tweets cut and pasting content off CNN or saying "Trump is bad" in slightly different ways. Go on, try and write something substantive? You can't can you? Because you aren't intelligent enough to do so. You are docile, witless, unimaginative, garden variety reflexively partisan democrat.

[Machismo]

That quote literally shows you as the hypocrite that you are. "I hate racists but I am fine with allowing policies that encourages racism". Your very own words. Don't blame me. And no, Trump's handling of the Covid has made me changed my mind. So if you hate Trump so much like you've said, why are you not voting for Biden? And why are you acting condescendingly towards those who are on the fence since you are not voting for him yourself?

No, it literally does not.

It's fine, you get confused with all that spamming of burner accounts.

Locky, Alleybeboba, Communismo, Antistooge... you must be tired.

Cheers!

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Jesus Christ, just make out already.

Nah, Alleybeboba and his 7 alts are liars. No thanks.

[SirBeef]

That quote literally shows you as the hypocrite that you are. "I hate racists but I am fine with allowing policies that encourages racism". Your very own words. Don't blame me. And no, Trump's handling of the Covid has made me changed my mind. So if you hate Trump so much like you've said, why are you not voting for Biden? And why are you acting condescendingly towards those who are on the fence since you are not voting for him yourself?

Look I hate libertarians as much as the next guy. They are basically republicans that want to smoke pot and not have to follow any rules, but machismo isn't being a hypocrite. One can hate racism and racists, but believe people should be allowed to make those decisions and be judged by the public as to whether or not they want to engage with or do business with them. You are making a mountain out of a mole hill.

[Felya]

There are none so blind as those who will not see.

Actually... those who do not see, are more blind than those who will not see. lol

Look, we can agree to disagree, this is for really real asked and answered. I don't think I am alone in feeling this way. I do think this candidate was engineered a bit. I'm not voting for him.

What does the bold mean?

FWIW, I no longer look upon Warren nor Sanders with favor, they've shown a refusal to do that which must actually be done also. Chris Hedges has suggested that they want to be insider Dems just as much as the Dems apparently want to be the GOP. It's all shifting right, and don't vote that far in that direction from center.

Are you sure you are not confusing having national support? Are you sure they don’t want to win a national election?

FWIW, none of your examples are about Trump policy, as your attacks about Biden demand. My guess, judging by the links and your refusal to actually discuss policy differences between Trump and Biden, is your disagreement with Biden is on the libertarian/authoritarian scale. You prefer a Trump, who doesn’t care about majority of Americans, only those that will win him the vote. Just like misinterpretation of Democrats and Bernie (who caucused with DNC for this very reason) shifting more GOP, instead of shifting more moderate for a national election... because everyone is not like you and demanding a candidate ignore the south and rust belt, just means you learned nothing from Hillary.

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Look I hate libertarians as much as the next guy. They are basically republicans that want to smoke pot and not have to follow any rules, but machismo isn't being a hypocrite. One can hate racism and racists, but believe people should be allowed to make those decisions and be judged by the public as to whether or not they want to engage with or do business with them. You are making a mountain out of a mole hill.

A bit of a misnomer on the first sentence. Economically there is little difference with GOP, but on the authoritarian/libertarian scale, libertarians cross the middle line, with both GOP and DNC resting at different point on the authoritarian side.

[SirBeef]

Actually... those who do not see, are more blind than those who will not see. lol



What does the bold mean?



Are you sure you are not confusing having national support? Are you sure they don’t want to win a national election?

FWIW, none of your examples are about Trump policy, as your attacks about Biden demand. My guess, judging by the links and your refusal to actually discuss policy differences between Trump and Biden, is your disagreement with Biden is on the libertarian/authoritarian scale. You prefer a Trump, who doesn’t care about majority of Americans, only those that will win him the vote. Just like misinterpretation of Democrats and Bernie (who caucused with DNC for this very reason) shifting more GOP, instead of shifting more moderate for a national election... because everyone is not like you and demanding a candidate ignore the south and rust belt, just means you learned nothing from Hillary.

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A bit of a misnomer on the first sentence. Economically there is little difference with GOP, but on the authoritarian/libertarian scale, libertarians cross the middle line, with both GOP and DNC resting at different point on the authoritarian side.

I know, but many share more in common with the GOP and all in congress are currently GOP members. But I stand by my statement.

[Hobb]

Biden is right now in the best position of any presidential challenger in the history of scientific polling. As things stand right now, Trump is pretty much finished.

A new ABC News/Washington Post poll shows former Vice President Joe Biden clearly ahead of President Donald Trump. Biden's up by a 53% to 43% margin among registered voters in this survey.

But it's important to put individual polls into context, and that context continues to show Biden's in one of the best positions for any challenger since scientific polling began in the 1930s.

There were more than 40 national public polls taken at least partially in the month of May that asked about the Biden-Trump matchup. Biden led in every single one of them. He's the first challenger to be ahead of the incumbent in every May poll since Jimmy Carter did so in 1976. Carter, of course, won the 1976 election. Biden's the only challenger to have the advantage in every May poll over an elected incumbent in the polling era.

Biden remains the lone challenger to be up in the average of polls in every single month of the election year. His average lead in a monthly average of polls has never dipped below 4 points and has usually been above it.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/05/31/polit...ion/index.html

[Felya]

The fact that you don't see this fundamental point is beyond all of us. So you constantly shitting all over Biden to us, demonstrates that for whatever reason, despite your past posts, you are now in favor of Trump continuing to be in office.

I think we are missing half the picture when discussing Trump and Biden in this context. Let’s try a thought experiment to see if we can clear this up.

What would a Democrat version of Trump act like? Would they use executive orders to push through liberal legislation? Would they assert that moderate democrats are traitors preventing progress? Would they shit on southern and middle American states, because if they don’t support their ideology, they must be the enemy? In short... would a liberal version of Trump, be an authoritarian that demonizes half the country, because they don’t share their opinion?

We are in the mire of ‘you want Trump’s policy, so your cries of healthcare and working class are disingenuous’... when in reality, they want a liberal authoritarian like Trump. Not a conservative authoritarian that Trump is, but a liberal that will disregard half the country and degrade the US system of checks and balances, to push through liberal ideology.

That’s the one policy problem I had with Bernie, to push for Warren instead. Bernie said he would use executive orders and emergency declarations that Trump exploits, pushing our country up the authoritarian scale. Biden claims he will shut those down, which will make liberal policy harder to push through Congress.

TLDR: The authoritarian liberal game:

Step 1: Keep Trump’s abuse of power going for 4 more years.
Step 2: Elect a liberal that will abuse power the same way to reverse 8 years of Trump and push their ideology.

[fwc577]

Move-in ready home for sale in November 2020!

[Draco-Onis]

I think we are missing half the picture when discussing Trump and Biden in this context. Let’s try a thought experiment to see if we can clear this up.

What would a Democrat version of Trump act like? Would they use executive orders to push through liberal legislation? Would they assert that moderate democrats are traitors preventing progress? Would they shit on southern and middle American states, because if they don’t support their ideology, they must be the enemy? In short... would a liberal version of Trump, be an authoritarian that demonizes half the country, because they don’t share their opinion?

We are in the mire of ‘you want Trump’s policy, so your cries of healthcare and working class are disingenuous’... when in reality, they want a liberal authoritarian like Trump. Not a conservative authoritarian that Trump is, but a liberal that will disregard half the country and degrade the US system of checks and balances, to push through liberal ideology.

That’s the one policy problem I had with Bernie, to push for Warren instead. Bernie said he would use executive orders and emergency declarations that Trump exploits, pushing our country up the authoritarian scale. Biden claims he will shut those down, which will make liberal policy harder to push through Congress.

TLDR: The authoritarian liberal game:

Step 1: Keep Trump’s abuse of power going for 4 more years.
Step 2: Elect a liberal that will abuse power the same way to reverse 8 years of Trump and push their ideology.

If Trump wasn't costing so many people their lives more people would go with that strategy. I don't think Bernie Sanders is a left version of Trump he doesn't have an equal on the left, that's really the reason only a small minority support it. There's very little energy for Biden this election is all about Trump.

[Felya]

If Trump wasn't costing so many people their lives more people would go with that strategy. I don't think Bernie Sanders is a left version of Trump he doesn't have an equal on the left, that's really the reason only a small minority support it. There's very little energy for Biden this election is all about Trump.

The other problem... after 12 years of Reagan/Bush, we got the Clintons from Arkansas. After another 8 years of GOP in Bush, we get Obama as the underdog beating Clinton.

I don’t understand what makes these people believe that right wing policy winning for 8 years, will not shift the opposition more right. I don’t understand the logic, of showing that even moderate liberal policy, that still resides right of the middle, failing... is supposed to encourage going further left. That doesn’t make sense as a strategy... it’s doing the same thing multiple times and thinking if you just double down, you’ll succeed. There is a lot more value in showing Trump supporters, what a Trump version of an extreme liberal actually is... Biden... until you soften the image of the extreme liberal Trump and his supporters created, it’s like demanding communism, during McCarthiesm.

[Draco-Onis]

The other problem... after 12 years of Reagan/Bush, we got the Clintons from Arkansas. After another 8 years of GOP in Bush, we get Obama as the underdog beating Clinton.

I don’t understand what makes these people believe that right wing policy winning for 8 years, will not shift the opposition more right. I don’t understand the logic, of showing that even moderate liberal policy, that still resides right of the middle, failing... is supposed to encourage going further left. That doesn’t make sense as a strategy... it’s doing the same thing multiple times and thinking if you just double down, you’ll succeed. There is a lot more value in showing Trump supporters, what a Trump version of an extreme liberal actually is... Biden... until you soften the image of the extreme liberal Trump and his supporters created, it’s like demanding communism, during McCarthiesm.

That's because you don't understand the level of frustration progressives including myself have with the Democratic party. Republicans kick the shit out of us when they are in power. The Democrats have become the koombaya party, it just feels like decades of just losing. That's the problem with incremental change you don't feel it.

Also factually speaking all this moderation and in the end the country has shifted more right than ever policy wise.

[Felya]

Also factually speaking all this moderation and in the end the country has shifted more right than ever policy wise.

Because when the needle on one side shifts further right or left, so does the relative middle.

That's because you don't understand the level of frustration progressives including myself have with the Democratic party. Republicans kick the shit out of us when they are in power. The Democrats have become the koombaya party, it just feels like decades of just losing. That's the problem with incremental change you don't feel it.

I’d never call my self a Democrat or Republican... I don’t share the disappointment.

[Lenonis]

As things stand right now, Trump is pretty much finished.

I hate to be that guy but Clinton was a shoo-in until she wasn't. It's still too early to be confident and there are so many things that can go horribly awry between now and November. Especially since Trump has utterly corrupted the DOJ.

[Lenonis]

Boy, now its not even trying anymore. Or its programming broke.

[kaelleria]

I hate to be that guy but Clinton was a shoo-in until she wasn't. It's still too early to be confident and there are so many things that can go horribly awry between now and November. Especially since Trump has utterly corrupted the DOJ.

Trump is in the some of the worst shape of any incumbent since we began polling.
https://www.cnn.com/2020/05/31/polit...ion/index.html

Biden is running ahead of where Hillary was at this point in time in 2016.



That being said... Be hungry. Act like Biden is down 1. Vote Trump and the GOP out in November.

[Lenonis]

That being said... Be hungry. Act like Biden is down 1. Vote Trump and the GOP out in November.

Yes, thank you...that was more my point. Complacency is how we snatch defeat from the jaws of victory. Plus the larger the turnout the more likely we are to flip the Senate.