Mega-Thread: Trump Focused Discussion

[DocSavageFan]

Probably because they weren't. I literally just put the Secret Service's own statement in the thread that shows they were all "injured" between Friday night and Sunday morning. And the number is 60. You should scroll up.

Thanks for clarifying and supporting my point.

[Felya]

I can't imagine that tweet is real lol Then again, it is Trump....
Made me chuckle.

If Trump can’t get his golf in, I think in a few days they will roll him out on a cart, while he screams... “Beefy!!!!!”... we elected cartman as president...

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Thanks for clarifying and supporting my point.

But, it doesn’t. The secret service was never in danger, so claiming Trump was scared, proves everyone else’s point. The fact that this stopped before Trump went into hiding, is just gravy.

[Benggaul]

Here's the thing: I'm fine with Trump hiding in a bunker. I want his dumb, racist ass to be alive to face endless trials once he's no longer protected by the GOP. But if he's just going to Tweet insults and incite violence from within that bunker then I hope the ventilation system craps out and he's forced to deal with exactly how bad his shit stinks.

[DocSavageFan]

Here's the thing: I'm fine with Trump hiding in a bunker. I want his dumb, racist ass to be alive to face endless trials once he's no longer protected by the GOP. But if he's just going to Tweet insults and incite violence from within that bunker then I hope the ventilation system craps out and he's forced to deal with exactly how bad his shit stinks.

Trump being escorted to a bunker by the Secret Service is rational, prudent and expected...especially when they were taking substantial injuries and unsure whether or not they could maintain the WH perimeter.

And for the life of me, of all things Trump, I can't understand why people would profanely criticize the secret service and Trump for this particular action when Trump's life was potentially in danger. If one doesn't like Trump (and I would agree with them in some respects)...that's fine...but for those people who let their hatred consume their ability to be reasonably rational...they need to be confronted and exposed for their inability to think rationally imo.

[Breccia]

I can't imagine that tweet is real lol Then again, it is Trump....

The exact quote is "Big crowd, professionally organized, but nobody came close to breaching the fence. If they had they would have been greeted with the most vicious dogs, and most ominous weapons, I have ever seen." Amongst other things in the four or five tweet thread.

The tweet was sent May 30, 8AM. In other words, after he spent the night crying himself to sleep in his bunker.

Yes, he said "professionally organized". Other than white nationalists getting involved, he has no evidence.

I do see this one, though.

RCP says Biden has a steady lead in PA, for example, and more concerningly, he's ahead in FL. Trump is lying, or more concerning, is being lied to about his standing.

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I can't understand why people would profanely criticize the secret service and Trump for this particular action when Trump's life was potentially in danger.

Perhaps you forgot the time Trump said he would run into a school shooting, without a weapon? So, the issue is someone who claimed to be brave, hiding in a bunker from unarmed protesters, while also blaming the police who showed up for not showing up.

I've posted personally about both, recently. Maybe you have me on ignore? But the issue, as it often is, is Trump being a liar and a hypocrite.

[Belize]

And for the life of me, of all things Trump, I can't understand why people would profanely criticize the secret service and Trump for this particular action when Trump's life was potentially in danger.

Because:
1. His life was never in danger.
2. Trump is the one to have claimed he'd be the first to run into a school shooting to stop the shooter.

And yet, when you have some people shouting while holding cardboard signs behind multiple layers of barricades, he pussies out and goes to hide.

Trump is a small handed coward. Period.

[Lenonis]

especially when they were taking substantial injuries

Hmmmm.

If the injuries were substantial I'm sure we'd see quite a bit about it...

Eleven Secret Service employees were transported to the hospital with non-life threatening injuries.

I don't think most people would call that "substantial injuries". Not a single person in critical condition and less than 20% of the injuries required medical care.

EDIT -- I don't really understand this line of attack on Trump. My understanding is that this isn't even Trump's decision. If there is a threat to the president he gets moved to a safe location even if he doesn't want to go. I mean -- why call him a coward over this? It doesn't track for me. There is a WHOLE lot more here from him posting Qanon links to again siding with white supremacists to make pretend that ANTIFA is some organized nefarious group.

[DocSavageFan]

Because:
1. His life was never in danger.
2. Trump is the one to have claimed he'd be the first to run into a school shooting to stop the shooter.

And yet, when you have some people shouting while holding cardboard signs behind multiple layers of barricades, he pussies out and goes to hide.

Trump is a small handed coward. Period.

Citation please. Or admit that you're completely full of shit.

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Hmmmm.

If the injuries were substantial I'm sure we'd see quite a bit about it...

Eleven Secret Service employees were transported to the hospital with non-life threatening injuries.

I don't think most people would call that "substantial injuries". Not a single person in critical condition and less than 20% of the injuries required medical care.

EDIT -- I don't really understand this line of attack on Trump. My understanding is that this isn't even Trump's decision. If there is a threat to the president he gets moved to a safe location even if he doesn't want to go. I mean -- why call him a coward over this? It doesn't track for me. There is a WHOLE lot more here from him posting Qanon links to again siding with white supremacists to make pretend that ANTIFA is some organized nefarious group.

Any injury that requires hospitalization is substantial in my opinion.

[Lenonis]

Any injury that requires hospitalization is substantial in my opinion.

Do you have a source that any of those 11 people were admitted to the hospital? Because many (if not all) of them could have been treated and released. For instance if someone needed 4 stitches. Which again, I wouldn't call a substantial injury.

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Re-read the Secret Service statement.

From the same article I posted (which indicates Doc didn't read it...surprise surprise):

The Secret Service said no one crossed the White House fence and no one being protected was ever in danger.

[Acidbaron]

So what i gather from this the alt-right including their President are weak cowardly men and the left in the US is now the big manly threat, considering how antifa is suddenly a terrorist organization.

So in short they all just declared themselves cucks? Simply using their lingo against them.

[DocSavageFan]

Do you have a source that any of those 11 people were admitted to the hospital? Because many (if not all) of them could have been treated and released. For instance if someone needed 4 stitches. Which again, I wouldn't call a substantial injury.

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From the same article I posted (which indicates Doc didn't read it...surprise surprise):

Argue semantics until you turn blue as far as I'm concerned. It's an incredibly weak argument imo. The fact that they needed to go to the hospital in the first place is reasonably indicative that they sustained a substantial injury.

Tell me something, how many needed to be substantially injured (in your opinion) of even killed perhaps until their actions to protect the President were justified in your mind?

[fwc577]

So what i gather from this the alt-right including their President are weak cowardly men and the left in the US is now the big manly threat, considering how antifa is suddenly a terrorist organization.

So in short they all just declared themselves cucks? Simply using their lingo against them.

Where have you been? The P in GOP stands for Projection.

[Lenonis]

Argue semantics until you turn blue as far as I'm concerned.

Alternatively you could not try to over-exaggerate what happened.

The fact that they needed to go to the hospital in the first place is reasonably indicative that they sustained a substantial injury.

No, it isn't. Apparently you don't know how on-site treatment and assessment works. Either that or your bar for "substantial injury" is so low as to be meaningless.

Tell me something, how many needed to be substantially injured (in your opinion) of even killed perhaps until their actions to protect the President were justified in your mind?

That's not really a valid question, at least not to me. I don't have any issues with the actions the secret service took to protect the president. There should always be a bias towards being overly cautious when making decisions about the president's safety.

I just have issues with your overstating the facts to push your agenda.

[draynay]

Argue semantics until you turn blue as far as I'm concerned. It's an incredibly weak argument imo. The fact that they needed to go to the hospital in the first place is reasonably indicative that they sustained a substantial injury.

Tell me something, how many needed to be substantially injured (in your opinion) of even killed perhaps until their actions to protect the President were justified in your mind?

Your exaggerated and emotional arguments aren't landing so your next move is to make more of them?

[Acidbaron]

Argue semantics until you turn blue as far as I'm concerned. It's an incredibly weak argument imo. The fact that they needed to go to the hospital in the first place is reasonably indicative that they sustained a substantial injury.

Tell me something, how many needed to be substantially injured (in your opinion) of even killed perhaps until their actions to protect the President were justified in your mind?

When i cut my finger at work i disinfected it, taped it off and kept working i guess in your book that's a serious injury. Hmmm i am starting to understand why you are so easily influenced by a self proclaimed "strong man".

[DocSavageFan]

Yes, he said "professionally organized". Other than white nationalists getting involved, he has no evidence.

This is the first time I've heard this. Citation please.

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Alternatively you could not try to over-exaggerate what happened.

No, it isn't. Apparently you don't know how on-site treatment and assessment works. Either that or your bar for "substantial injury" is so low as to be meaningless.

That's not really a valid question, at least not to me. I don't have any issues with the actions the secret service took to protect the president. There should always be a bias towards being overly cautious when making decisions about the president's safety.

I just have issues with your overstating the facts to push your agenda.

And, pray tell, what is my agenda?

[Thekri]

Argue semantics until you turn blue as far as I'm concerned. It's an incredibly weak argument imo. The fact that they needed to go to the hospital in the first place is reasonably indicative that they sustained a substantial injury.

Tell me something, how many needed to be substantially injured (in your opinion) of even killed perhaps until their actions to protect the President were justified in your mind?

Oh I am fine with Trump staying away from protestors. Nothing good could happen if they actually came in close contact.

The problem is that Trump keeps fanning the flames on this. Further endangering everyone involved for his own ends. The Secret Service that have been injured are being injured because Trump keeps provoking the crowds. Granted, that is not an excuse for attacking innocent people, I am not endorsing attacks on anyone. However the fact that the President is completely unable and unwilling to deescalate things is a serious problem.

Trump is doing this for a reason, as usual he needs to secure his base. His complete mishandling of the epidemic has seriously shaken his standing with many, some remain loyal, but his margins are razor thin in the best conditions, and too many are tired of holding their noses. Trump has a lot to gain from this, it is a rallying cry for his base. From their perspective, scary black people are threatening the social order, we need a strong President to put them all back in their place with guns and dogs and hoses. This will get them out to vote, while Trump continues to erode Democratic enthusiasm in Biden. This has a very good chance of working. Although far more Americans want Biden to be President then Trump, Biden votes tend to be less enthusiastic about Biden (Although many are enthusiastic about beating Trump). So what Trump has to do is shore up all the scared white people vote, keep his turnout high, and repress/discourage democratic voters.

Trump has nothing to lose from inflaming this, none of the protestors were going to vote for him anyway. Decency isn't a factor here, he will make this as bad as he possibly can. Because seeing America in flames, riddled with disease, a crashing economy, racked with violence and hate isn't a problem for him. Not if he can win.

[Belize]

Citation please. Or admit that you're completely full of shit.

"No Secret Service protectees were ever in any danger"

What's your next goalpost move going to be? Are you just going to start resorting to personal since you clearly have no idea what you're talking about?

[Breccia]

I think this Reuters article is also worth discussion. Mostly because it is yet another "Breccia is wrong" post.

Please, actually read it before replying.

U.S. President Donald Trump has little choice but to stick with his Phase 1 China trade deal despite his anger at Beijing over the coronavirus pandemic, new Hong Kong security rules, and dwindling hopes China can meet U.S. goods purchase targets, people familiar with his administration’s deliberations say.

The U.S.-China trade negotiations took more than two years, heaped tariffs on $370 billion of Chinese products, whipsawed financial markets and dimmed global growth prospects well before the coronavirus outbreak crushed them.

In recent weeks, suggestions that Trump may cancel the deal have emanated from the White House almost daily, and businesses, investors, and China trade watchers are hanging on to every word and tweet.

But on Friday, when Trump said the United States would start dismantling trade and travel privileges for Hong Kong, he did not mention the deal. Stock markets heaved a sigh of relief, with the S&P 500 reversing losses.

Quick interruption here: a lot of people in the Bull Market Over! thread said exactly this. So if you were one of them, congrats, you called it perfectly.

Talking tough on China and criticizing the Obama administration's more measured approach is a key part of Trump's re-election strategy. Sticking with the pact may mean accepting that China is likely to fall short of purchase commitments for U.S. agricultural goods, manufactured products, energy and services - goals that many said were unrealistic here even before the pandemic.

Canceling the deal, though, would reignite the nearly two-year U.S.-China trade war at a time U.S. unemployment is at its worst since the 1930s Great Depression.

The next U.S. step would likely be reviving previously planned but canceled tariffs on some $165 billion worth of Chinese consumer goods, including Apple cellphones and computers, toys and clothing - all ultimately paid by U.S. companies and passed on to consumers. Beijing would retaliate with tariffs on U.S. goods, fueling more market turmoil and delaying recovery.

“He’s stuck with a lemon. He gets an empty agreement if he sticks with it, and he gets more actions that create an economic drag and more volatility if he abandons it,” said one person briefed on the administration’s trade deliberations.

U.S. goods exports here to China in the first quarter were down $4 billion from the trade war-damaged levels a year earlier, according to U.S. Census Bureau data.

The Peterson Institute of International Economics estimates here that during the first quarter, China made only about 40% of the purchases it needed to stay on target for a first-year increase of $77 billion over 2017 levels, implying an extremely steep climb in the second half.

Leaving the deal now would not buy a lasting political bounce for Trump in manufacturing-heavy swing states with five months to go before the presidential election, analysts say.

So much bolding for emphasis.

So I've been saying Phase One is dead, and I even cited -- today -- China cancelling purchases. What I failed to consider, was that Trump might not have a choice. If he raises tariffs any further, he puts salt on his own gaping wound. So while China isn't fulfilling their obligations, Trump might still need to.

Now, as we've seen, just because something is a bad idea doesn't prove Trump won't do it. We're talking about a guy who hid in a bunker because of a few dozen unarmed civilians who didn't breach the gates, for example. But where I've said there was no choice, I was wrong, there are two choices but they're both bad.

1) Stick with Phase One as the article suggests, hoping (as the WH is claiming) that despite heated political disagreement trade somehow rises to the point where it actually looks good, or

2) Dump Phase One as I've been suggesting, knowing full well China won't live up to their own end of the bargain anyhow, and at least claim a moral victory while, yep, kicking your own economy while it's down.

That's some Prisoner's Dilemna shit right there. The only real "win" is if Trump continues Phase One and hopes for a miracle on China's end. I don't think that's realistic, but I have to concede it's an option.

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This is the first time I've heard this

That's because you're not following the conversation. Please post constructively.

[arandomuser]

How do you think trump will legally "declare antifa a terrorist orginzation"
he usually says one thing like " ban all muslims" but his advisers tell him its unconstitutional and it turns into like "targeted restriction of travel between specific countries in the middle east"

one thing we can look to history for is the sedition act when there was anarchist and socialist led protets riots
which lead to the arrest of eugene debs and palmer raids in wich anti war activist and socialist were arrested under orders of attorney general mitchell palmer.
https://www.fbi.gov/history/famous-cases/palmer-raids

barr reminds of palmer alot, i wonder if he does plan to run as trumps sucessor in 2024