Lorewise, is Holy/Light stronger than Shadow/Void?

[ravenmoon]

In the WoW cosmology, Light and Void are diametric opposites and also simultaneously define one another - they're intrinsically connected and inextricably bound, and one cannot exist without the other. While in the microcosm they might wax and wane, in the macrocosm they exist in an eternal balance.

I think that void only exists because light doesn't fill everywhere. That's not to say this balance doesn't exist, but this gives light the upperhand, and it came first too.

[Alanar]

While there is clearly some pokemon style match up going on in the six principle forces of Warcraft have we ever actually seen the void and light go up against on another.

in some form or shape yes, couple of times.

https://wow.gamepedia.com/Arakkoa#/m...:Apocrypha.jpg

[Airlick]

Pound for pound The light is stronger than the void, there opposite but not equal, but the shadow is far more abundant.

It's the classic good v evil trope. Good is always stronger than evil but evil always out numbers good.

It's usually more like "good is weaker and less numerous, but ultimately wins because of power of friendship (read: using a gimmick to beat an OP villain with an equally OP army)".

It may not apply to WoW, though, there are just gaps in the lore and I don't think it can really be said which is stronger - assuming they are not equal and we just didn't see the Void Lords equivalent yet.

[Whitedragon]

Illidan back then was weaker than Illidan when he blasted the crap out of the Naaru. That should have been an obvious thing.

A lot of time passed between the two instances.

most of which he spent moping around doing nothing or being dead...

[alt-ithist]

Lorewise:

Warlocks ---> Degenerate Shaman's

And Holy Magic is the magic meant to be used against undead, that was the real propose of Paladins, slay undead.

Actually, the real purpose of paladins was to fight orcs. Undeads showed up way after paladins were a thing.

[Musta]

Different sides of the same coin.

[Molvonos]

most of which he spent moping around doing nothing or being dead...

That we're aware of. Originally, we killed Illidan (or so we thought), but even during the events of legion, he was shown to have grown in power by various means (he even gave up the Warglaives of Azzinoth for the fiery havok skin). Also keep in mind that we needed both Akama and Maiev's help taking him down with a full raid group (of course, that generally has no bearing on a NPC's power levels -- some NPC's die in open world, some in dungeons, some in raids).

Also, did Illidan obliterate (disenchant) Gul'dan or absorb his power, like he did the original skull of Gul'dan to get his more demonic/naztherim look?

[Saltysquidoon]

Also, did Illidan obliterate (disenchant) Gul'dan or absorb his power, like he did the original skull of Gul'dan to get his more demonic/naztherim look?

I always took the crushing of the skull to show he had moved 'needing' the skull and was ready to take a more heroic 'stand on his own power' turn. Sort of an anaphoric repetition thing to show change and growth.

[Aresk]

While there is clearly some pokemon style match up going on in the six principle forces of Warcraft have we ever actually seen the void and light go up against on another.

Not directly in a big way, no. We do have the Sunwell, though, which was corrupted and required the sacrifice of a naaru's heart to instill the light in it, again, while the mere presence of a being empowered by a dark naaru's heart was enough to start corrupting it again. Based on that experience, it seems Void is stronger at least in influencing things.

Void entities were successful in forming numerous fringe cults, especially the Twilight's Hammer, while the Light is responsible for the near eradication of other religious cultures like the harvest witches, so from a sheer institutional standpoint, Light seems stronger.

Alleria bested Turalyon in the Horrific Vision of Stormwind when it came to kidnapping Arator, but that may be more their individual power levels and willingness to cause harm to one another than really a light/void battle.

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That's another thing I never understood. How is Illidan strong enough to eyebeam a Naaru Prime to death but still lost to Arthas before he even became the Lich King?

Wasn't this fight in more recent time (Chronicle or later) characterized as Illidan being overconfident and Arthas basically getting a lucky hit in? I recall people chatting about that in Grubby's chat when he played through the WC3 mission, but I don't know the exact sources of that info.

[Violent]

Lorewise:

Warlocks ---> Degenerate Shaman's

And Holy Magic is the magic meant to be used against undead, that was the real propose of Paladins, slay undead.

An heal. The Light heals.

[Eucep]

Fairly sure it's same strength, same for the rest of the spheres of power. It is more dependant on the personality and personal power of it's users.

[omeomorfismo]

Actually, the real purpose of paladins was to fight orcs. Undeads showed up way after paladins were a thing.

no, paladins were developed after the alliance were terrified by the necrolytes and dks of guldan.

[Melusine]

I feel like they should be equally strong, like they are the opposite sides of the same coin, but in the game it looks like Holy classes pretty much make shadow their bitches.

Everything has its strengths and weaknesses. That said, the purpose of light is redeeming order, while the purpose of the void is chaotic undoing. To be honest, I'm not sure the problem with Xe'ra when she tried to force Illidan to become a lightforged...whatever the hell he is now, was a matter of it being good, and more of it meaning the loss of freedom. The dialogue between Xe'ra and Illidan was so stupid, too. I don't know too many people out there that have endured hardships, or are in terrible physical or mental shape that would say "I AM MY SCARS!!!". Shit, if someone could fix their body, that would be, for most normal people, anyway, a dream come true. It is never hinted at that Illidan is concerned with being a puppet of Xe'ra, and no longer in control of himself.

Paladins have abilities like Turn Evil, Wake of Ashes, Shadow Resistance Aura that give them extra power by having their way with shadow themed creatures. Priests have Shackle Undead, etc.

This typically happens when dealing with two schools of magicks in direct opposition to one another. You ever hear of the nature of good and evil? There are very few people when looking at the total number of people on Earth (let's use that as an example) who are the embodiment of a patron saint, unquestioned faith, humbleness that rivals Jesus Christ himself, and a heart of gold that is so undeniable, it just isn't really a question of good, and there are also very few people that are just thru and thru irredeemably evil, who is dastardly and mean-spirited, murderous, and hateful that they are truly that sort of monster. It's all a matter of perspective. In terms of good and evil, though, those forces are well-defined. Healing people is a good act. It explains why so many of a priest's healing spells, and every one of a paladin's healing spells come from that school of magic. In terms of void magic, or shadow magic, honestly only one thing comes to mind, and that's shadow mend. But there are a shitload of spells that either ARE void oriented, or shadow tainted, and can be used freely with shadow priests, death knights, and warlocks.

Meanwhile, DKs and Locks have no such power that helps them against holy/light creatures.

Well, you're kind of wrong about that. While true, there aren't too many void spells out there meant specifically to guard against the light, they guard against everything including light, such as Create healthstones, Soul stones, drain life, dark pact, Control mind, anti-magic shell.... It's not the same purpose. Every spell meant for healing using void energy comes with a price and/or a downside to its use.

I know this may be a little dated, but, did you ever play Magic the Gathering during 4th o 5th edition? If you did, there was a number of white card enchantments, Circle of Protection: Red/green/blue/black, but not any for black. Sure, there was abilities like Terror that could kill a creature in a way that it could not regenerate the damage, but it certainly wasn't known for conventional defense.

Just some things you might want ot consider