The Falun gong movement, good or bad?

[Lynarii]

You assume that a cult, which is known to spread batshit crazy conspiracy theories, is telling you the truth. All accounts of that "atrocious and horrifying" stuff are from one side - Falun Gong, which is often used by western media and politicians as source of "news".

You need to question your sources of information. They are hardcore anti-China, lying their asses off and spreading fake news.

No, I don't really blanket assume that everything the Falun Gong claims is true. But even if you strike the upper edges of the claims off the list as being pretty unlikely, it seems reasonable to expect that the Chinese government does not treat them better than, say, they do the Uyghurs. And that still falls under 'atrocious and horrifying' in my books.

[Rennadrel]

Honestly boils down to a group of people deciding the basic tenants having enough and the mainstream world saying it isn't. Oddly enough Christianity was a cult at one time with a ton of different beliefs about the nature of Jesus and other ideas about his teachings. Until a group of "leaders" and throw in Emporer Consititine into it decided on what the basic tenants were.

Falun Gong just seems to be an offshoot of Buddism and Daoism. It does not really seem to be about conquering or making other people follow their teachings or else. Honestly, if the Communist of China fear it enough then there might not be something bad about it after all.

They fear Islam enough that they've tried to eradicate the Uyghyr Muslims. Then again Commies in general are a bunch of paranoid authoritarian douchebags anyway, they don't even have to be from China. It's a wonder so many people are Commie simps these days while they cry about 'muh Nazi's' acting like a bunch of bigots are going to establish the fucking 3rd Reich again while ignoring that Commies have killed nearly 100 million more people in the name of their ideology.

[szechuan]

Falun Gong just seems to be an offshoot of Buddism and Daoism. It does not really seem to be about conquering or making other people follow their teachings or else. Honestly, if the Communist of China fear it enough then there might not be something bad about it after all.

It isn't, Buddism and Daoism are allowed in China and are not being Prosecuted. Falun Gong is a Cult, their Leader is against Mixed Races because of Evil Extraterrestrials and also being Anti-Science and Anti-Western Medicine etc.

The Falun Gong are like Scientologists.

[Foosha]

It isn't, Buddism and Daoism are allowed in China and are not being Prosecuted. Falun Gong is a Cult, their Leader is against Mixed Races because of Evil Extraterrestrials and also being Anti-Science and Anti-Western Medicine etc.

The Falun Gong are like Scientologists.

"Buddhism not being persecuted"
Oh man, lets go tell the Dalai Lama he can go back to Tibet now!

[Ripster42]

It isn't, Buddism and Daoism are allowed in China and are not being Prosecuted. Falun Gong is a Cult, their Leader is against Mixed Races because of Evil Extraterrestrials and also being Anti-Science and Anti-Western Medicine etc.

The Falun Gong are like Scientologists.

And the sky fairy who turned part of itself into a man and part of itself into a ghost is totally not just as batshit crazy.

[PC2]

They're basically just an angry sub-group within Chinese culture. They are only "anti-China" for historical reasons and not based on actual principles like freedom or democratic consent. For example if you swapped current Chinese leadership with those from the Falun Gong I think they would just implement similar authoritarian policies based on their personal dogmas.

[Mihalik]

It's pretty far up on the creepy cult scale, but the active persecution the CCP subjects them tho is an overreach and does a lot towards garnering them the support abroad China that they need to survive. It legitimizes them and allows them to fundraise and get legal protection abroad.

Tho this sort of overreach is somewhat typical with the CCP that doesn't really seem to have a good model for dealing with organized religions in general.

Catholics, Tibetan Buddhists, Muslims etc are all technically legally allowed to exist but are actively persecuted as their hierarchical leadership is often drawn from either international organizations or from groups that just refuse to tow the party line.

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They fear Islam enough that they've tried to eradicate the Uyghyr Muslims. Then again Commies in general are a bunch of paranoid authoritarian douchebags anyway, they don't even have to be from China. It's a wonder so many people are Commie simps these days while they cry about 'muh Nazi's' acting like a bunch of bigots are going to establish the fucking 3rd Reich again while ignoring that Commies have killed nearly 100 million more people in the name of their ideology.

1. Whataboutism is not a legitimate argument.
2. Nobody in human history has been as efficient at murdering people as the Nazis. They literally exterminated 10+ million people in industrialized murder camps in the span of a few years. This is ignoring the death toll of the savage war they started.
3. No ideology in human history has been as abysmally toxic and evil as Nazis which outright denied the humanity of about 80+% of mankind. It's an ideology of pure evil with no redeeming quality.
4. Communism has been evil and murderous in its attempted forms. Albeit an argument can be made that communism in its theoretical form has never been implemented nor was there any serious attempt for its implementation. It can even be argued that its such an utopic system that it can never be implemented.

That doesn't change the fact that the theory has value, that it's core objectives are good and that it has elements that have been implemented and continue being implemented with great success providing great benefit for humanity.

Contrast that with Nazism, which has absolutely no redeeming qualities, provides absolutely nothing of value and its core objectives at absolutely irredeemably evil and it only ever given humanity murder, oppression, war, misery, lies and destruction and in a brief 15 years from its rise and fall caused the death of 70 million people and material destruction of much of Europe.

Nazis cannot be reasoned with they are a death cult. Imagine had they have had unchallenged reign over half the world for 80 years, and nuclear weapons.

[Easo]

While they are basically the same kind of bullshit scientology is, what China has done to them is not supportable in any kind of way.
Organ harvesting, anyone?

[Ripster42]

While they are basically the same kind of bullshit scientology is, what China has done to them is not supportable in any kind of way.
Organ harvesting, anyone?

While they are basically the same kind of bullshit christianity is, what china has done to them is not supportable in any kind of way.
Organ harvesting, anyone?

[Easo]

While they are basically the same kind of bullshit christianity is, what china has done to them is not supportable in any kind of way.
Organ harvesting, anyone?

Your point is?

[Ripster42]

Your point is?

That this is a thread on forbidden topics. My comment isn't really directed at you, but a different audience.

[Easo]

That this is a thread on forbidden topics. My comment isn't really directed at you, but a different audience.

Moderation has been interesting lately, but that too can't be discussed, as per rules, only via PM to supermods. But there are exceptions - say, we can shit on North Korea all we want, I never have seen anyone getting infracted for that, though nation bashing is against the rules.
Whether the same applies to scientology, well... who knows.

[Ripster42]

Moderation has been interesting lately, but that too can't be discussed, as per rules, only via PM to supermods. But there are exceptions - say, we can shit on North Korea all we want, I never have seen anyone getting infracted for that, though nation bashing is against the rules.
Whether the same applies to scientology, well... who knows.

It's not just scientology here. The group/cult/church/whatever the OP discusses is a religious group, it doesn't matter how fucked up I think they are. This is in the OP:

The leader is apparantely fucking insane and believes he's some kind of magical Buddha with healing powers, and that the movement preys on the poor and old uneducated population by telling them "no no no, you don't need to go to the hospital for that cancer. Give us money instead and pray to our leader, the magical Buddha, and you will be fine!". I also read something about the movement being suspects of several murders, but that part I just glimpsed through so I may have gotten it wrong.

It honestly sounded a bit like the Chinese version of the scientologies edit: christians. I know we have a few people from China. ANy truth to these claims, or is the truth closer to what they tell us in the west, that they just want to meditate and do funny dances in peace, but the big bully government won't let them?

Christian faith healers
Prosperity Gospel
Catholic sex pedos

[shadowmouse]

I know we have a few people from China. ANy truth to these claims, or is the truth closer to what they tell us in the west, that they just want to meditate and do funny dances in peace, but the big bully government won't let them?

@Ripster42 The question looks pretty clear to me. OP didn't ask about their religious beliefs, but rather a reasonably political question -- they present themselves as a persecuted religious group and they get used as an example of such in China discussions, OP asked for input on whether that is the case or if they are possibly something closer to the way China presents them. Their religious beliefs as such aren't really at issue here and there is no need to steer the thread to religious themes.

[Ripster42]

@Ripster42 The question looks pretty clear to me. OP didn't ask about their religious beliefs, but rather a reasonably political question -- they present themselves as a persecuted religious group and they get used as an example of such in China discussions, OP asked for input on whether that is the case or if they are possibly something closer to the way China presents them. Their religious beliefs as such aren't really at issue here and there is no need to steer the thread to religious themes.

The OP ridiculed someones religious beliefs. Someone who says:

The leader is apparantely fucking insane and believes he's some kind of magical Buddha with healing powers, and that the movement preys on the poor and old uneducated population by telling them "no no no, you don't need to go to the hospital for that cancer. Give us money instead and pray to our leader, the magical Buddha, and you will be fine!". I also read something about the movement being suspects of several murders, but that part I just glimpsed through so I may have gotten it wrong.

then compares them to what the US considers a borderline legal cult (when, again, christianity is the better equivalent) isn't asking reasonable political questions.

[Stelio Kontos]

Can we not let the angstheist screeching derail the thread? Thanks.

[shadowmouse]

then compares them to what the US considers a borderline legal cult (when, again, christianity is the better equivalent) isn't asking reasonable political questions.

Note the bold, support your position, please. While you may have issues with Christianity, it is a diverse, international religion that has been part of global history for centuries. Neither Scientology nor FG have a similar position.

Disclaimer: For those who don't recall, I'm agnostic and generally dislike religions ranging from Shamanism to Catholicism. That's neither here nor there as far as I'm concerned with this topic. As OP clearly stated in his opening:

The group has always fascinated me, because I think it's weird that the Chinese government has banned it, and I've always thougnt there must be more other than what they tell us in the west, or in Sweden at least, that they just want to be spiritual and do funny choreographs together, but I haven't made much research into it until yesterday.

A major tool that FG uses is essentially:



OP puts that as: "but the big bully government won't let them" With the Tienanmen anniversary coming up and HK protests in the news, it is likely that there will be a thread and that FG and organ harvesting will be brought up. That isn't about their beliefs, it goes to a political commentary and questioning whether there are less savory elements to their activities is a political matter that goes to the perception of them. You'll note that I compare them to Eastern Lightning, which casts itself as Christian.

[Ripster42]

Note the bold, support your position, please. While you may have issues with Christianity, it is a diverse, international religion that has been part of global history for centuries. Neither Scientology nor FG have a similar position.

Disclaimer: For those who don't recall, I'm agnostic and generally dislike religions ranging from Shamanism to Catholicism. That's neither here nor there as far as I'm concerned with this topic. As OP clearly stated in his opening:

Post #34. Direct correlations between the two for the given reasons OP was lambasting whatever these fuck nuts believe.

Edit: post #34, not #36 as originally stated.

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Can we not let the angstheist screeching derail the thread? Thanks.

Sorry you don't like the OP and subsequent posts being addressed directly on their content, AKA their religion is as normal as any other. The "crazy practices" are exactly what some denominations in the US practice, but, for some reason, the OP frames it differently.

[Polyxo]

They're definitely a really crazy cult, and they're definitely mistreated by the Chinese government.

[shadowmouse]

Post #34. Direct correlations between the two for the given reasons OP was lambasting whatever these fuck nuts believe.

I already addressed that post, you're just talking in circles. I've asked a specific question -- you state "when, again, christianity is the better equivalent -- there are a multitude of cults (such as Eastern Lightning or even Mormons) that try to include themselves as part of Christianity and there are numerous fringe practices (snake handling, faith healing, and talking in tongues); however, there are millions of Christians who simply find comfort in their beliefs and do not participate in anything wilder than singing "Amazing Grace" and going to picnics. What makes them (Christians, not specific fringe groups or practices that are not mainstream Christianity) a better example than Scientology?

exactly what some denominations in the US practice, but, for some reason, the OP frames it differently.

It might be because he is in Sweden and has an outside view of religious practices in the US; however, notice that you just specified "some denominations" and "in the US".