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  1. #1

    When did I become bad at Wow?

    Hi all,

    Long time lurker, first time poster.

    I recently came back to wow after a break since the beginning of bfa. I leveled a bit, worked on my gear and eventually joined a heroic raising guild who I've been with for just over a month.

    I really like this guild and I've enjoyed being back in the game, yesterday was meant to be the end of my trial but I was told by the officers that they've extended the trial due to errors I've made during raids. I can't recall all the errors, but I remember yesterday that I messed up standing in the right spot for vita on raden, ran through people with paranoia on nzoth a few times and also died on nzoth.

    I've also enjoyed doing mythic+, but at times I find it a bit overwhelming especially with how tight the timers are. It seems like everyone else knows exactly what to do, but I often make mistakes that hold the group back.

    I'm worried now that even if I pass my trial I will always be seen as a bad player. Meaning I don't get invited to groups etc or if I am its seen as doing me a favour or as a carry.

    The weird thing is back in the day I was a hardcore raider, for instance I mained a blood dk and cleared heroic icc 25 during wrath and raided heroic all throughout cata.

    So my question is what changed? How have I ended up in this spot.

    When did I become bad at wow?

  2. #2
    Welcome. The issue can be many different things: without logs or even saying what class/spec you play is an answer only vague. One consideration is age: we get older, our concentration and our reaction time gets lower. Also boss fights get more and more complicated. And mythic+-timers are the issue we have now in bfa: many people want something that's not hanging on a timer: torgast should have been it until blizzard decided: hey, let's add a timer there too.

    Another reason could be simply bad class design: playing in cata is different from playing any class in the castrated bfa-version. But to know what you play is important too: maybe the class or the spec isn't doing well for you: it might have been in cata, but it's simply no longer the case in bfa.

    Another reason can be that this particular guild have a too high entry level. It differs between being too hardcore or thinking being too hardcore: first they are top-guilds, second they are thinking they are top guilds, overerestimating their abilities. That's the same people requiring mythic-gear and over the curve-archievement for normal mode.

    And you are probably right about it: maybe considering changing your guild to another one might be the best solution. But again: for this we are seriously lacking data.
    Last edited by Velerios; 2020-06-02 at 07:42 AM.

  3. #3
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    gotta learn the mechanics dude. the mechanics of fights have always been there, just takes time to get there.

  4. #4
    You did NOT become bad. Everyone else is trained for the Content now. Everyone else did ny'alotha for weeks or months now. Especially mythic+ people did for almost 2 years nearle the SAME dungeons now.
    It is like in a dancing group, when everyone else trained the macarena for years. Then someones joins the group and it looks like he does spaghetti moves when everyone else does the macarena.
    In 4-5 month (shadowlands launch), when everyone need to learn the Samba of death you will see that all the other people will make mistakes too.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by HollowHills View Post
    Hi all,

    Long time lurker, first time poster.

    I recently came back to wow after a break since the beginning of bfa. I leveled a bit, worked on my gear and eventually joined a heroic raising guild who I've been with for just over a month.

    I really like this guild and I've enjoyed being back in the game, yesterday was meant to be the end of my trial but I was told by the officers that they've extended the trial due to errors I've made during raids. I can't recall all the errors, but I remember yesterday that I messed up standing in the right spot for vita on raden, ran through people with paranoia on nzoth a few times and also died on nzoth.

    I've also enjoyed doing mythic+, but at times I find it a bit overwhelming especially with how tight the timers are. It seems like everyone else knows exactly what to do, but I often make mistakes that hold the group back.

    I'm worried now that even if I pass my trial I will always be seen as a bad player. Meaning I don't get invited to groups etc or if I am its seen as doing me a favour or as a carry.

    The weird thing is back in the day I was a hardcore raider, for instance I mained a blood dk and cleared heroic icc 25 during wrath and raided heroic all throughout cata.

    So my question is what changed? How have I ended up in this spot.

    When did I become bad at wow?
    m+ can on averege be harder than raids,even mythic raids depending on how high you do them or how strong the team is,also...lol wotlk raiding wise was care bear easy mode,besised a few tight ulduar hardmores,the rest of wrath was a joke compared to today

    cata was pretty good for its time,specialy 10 mans early on before tuning fixes,still easier than today

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by HollowHills View Post
    When did I become bad at wow?
    I dont know you of course, but honestly I think this might be caused by the fact that ppl repeat this content over and over again for months/years. You werent here, so you might be rusty and ppl's standards are pretty high since they do the same crap for so long and can do it kinda "perfectly" at this point. Every idiot can do a thing right after months of repeating it over and over again, right? Or you just overthink it and the fact that you werent promoted doesnt mean too much. Just get better and you will get there. This never happened to me, but it sounds like the guild takes it a bit too seriously. Games are kinda about repeating and muscle memory, so chill.

  7. #7
    I don't think you have just woke up and now you are suddenly bad at WoW.

    I wouldn't beat yourself up too much, there are a lot more mechanics in the game now, raids require a lot more knowledge and practice. The particular mistakes you are making are just the usual human mistakes that happen time to time, but because you are trialing, you have a magnifying glass on everything you do. That process is stressful, I have done it several times over the decades and it is never easy. Just practice mechanics in LFR or watch videos/streams and prepare well before raids, the rest is practice. If you show improvements and you display how dedicated you are to learning, you should be fine.

    If its a long trial (I have been in high-end guilds with 3 month trials) and you are still failing mechanics after that point, then I would take a seat back and decide if raiding is really your cuppa' ya know? I have not raided high-end since Legion and I don't think I could do it anymore. I think people compare themselves to how they were as a teen and forget that not only were you younger and more patient, the game was a lot easier.

    Just do your best to prepare before raids and show you are learning, the fact they have extended it and not flat out denied your application must mean something?
    Last edited by Lidenbok; 2020-06-02 at 07:53 AM.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by MrLachyG View Post
    gotta learn the mechanics dude. the mechanics of fights have always been there, just takes time to get there.
    Basically this.

    When it comes to M+, the higher you go the more important the mechanics of every trash pack you pull becomes. What to interrupt, what to stun, how to position yourself, how to kill stuff depending on the affix etc. Many of us have been running these dungeons for years now, you just came back and have a lot to learn. Just give it time, try to be open to advice you get and don't be afraid to ask questions.

    Raiding is the same as it has always been as well, learn mechanics and try to think ahead.

    And most important is to learn your class inside out. You don't mention your class or spec, but no matter what you are playing it is important that you get to know your class. If you are trying to raid or do M+ and don't know your class your focus will be divided between "what ability do I use now, where is the keybind??" and the mechanics of the fight you are in. Spend some time on a dummy every day if you are DPS or tank to get your class abilities to stick in your muscle memory (remember to use interrupts/stuns/defensives etc as well).

    That's all I can think of for now

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by HollowHills View Post
    Hi all,

    Long time lurker, first time poster.

    I recently came back to wow after a break since the beginning of bfa. I leveled a bit, worked on my gear and eventually joined a heroic raising guild who I've been with for just over a month.

    I really like this guild and I've enjoyed being back in the game, yesterday was meant to be the end of my trial but I was told by the officers that they've extended the trial due to errors I've made during raids. I can't recall all the errors, but I remember yesterday that I messed up standing in the right spot for vita on raden, ran through people with paranoia on nzoth a few times and also died on nzoth.

    I've also enjoyed doing mythic+, but at times I find it a bit overwhelming especially with how tight the timers are. It seems like everyone else knows exactly what to do, but I often make mistakes that hold the group back.

    I'm worried now that even if I pass my trial I will always be seen as a bad player. Meaning I don't get invited to groups etc or if I am its seen as doing me a favour or as a carry.

    The weird thing is back in the day I was a hardcore raider, for instance I mained a blood dk and cleared heroic icc 25 during wrath and raided heroic all throughout cata.

    So my question is what changed? How have I ended up in this spot.

    When did I become bad at wow?
    You never became bad, there's just a lot more to learn by heart. In wrath you could wing almost everything. Knowing helped, but with a few exceptions like the gauntled in Utgarde Pinnacle, there was very little need to memorize every single pull in the game. You had raiding, of course, but even that was easier.

    Eventually the playerbase became more sophisticated and routined, and to keep things interesting, more and more mechanics are added all the time to keep players on their toes. Never a dull moment. This has made raiding so exhaustive that even LFR can be overwhelming mechanic-wise.

    You haven't become bad, you just have to decide if you want to learn every single pull and mechanic in the game or not.
    if not - There's always Classic.

  10. #10
    We've been doing the raid for months, you just got back.

    I'm worried now that even if I pass my trial I will always be seen as a bad player. Meaning I don't get invited to groups etc or if I am its seen as doing me a favour or as a carry.
    Everyone starts as a carry. As you do more content you'll start to pull your weight and stop being a carry. Or you'll become friends with people so they don't mind, and just enjoy spending time with you. That's how the game works.
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  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by HollowHills View Post
    Hi all,

    Long time lurker, first time poster.

    I recently came back to wow after a break since the beginning of bfa. I leveled a bit, worked on my gear and eventually joined a heroic raising guild who I've been with for just over a month.

    I really like this guild and I've enjoyed being back in the game, yesterday was meant to be the end of my trial but I was told by the officers that they've extended the trial due to errors I've made during raids. I can't recall all the errors, but I remember yesterday that I messed up standing in the right spot for vita on raden, ran through people with paranoia on nzoth a few times and also died on nzoth.

    I've also enjoyed doing mythic+, but at times I find it a bit overwhelming especially with how tight the timers are. It seems like everyone else knows exactly what to do, but I often make mistakes that hold the group back.

    I'm worried now that even if I pass my trial I will always be seen as a bad player. Meaning I don't get invited to groups etc or if I am its seen as doing me a favour or as a carry.

    The weird thing is back in the day I was a hardcore raider, for instance I mained a blood dk and cleared heroic icc 25 during wrath and raided heroic all throughout cata.

    So my question is what changed? How have I ended up in this spot.

    When did I become bad at wow?
    You are good in WoW if you know stuff. Good multitaskers can have qutie steep learning curves, while people who are bad at multi tasking need a bit more time to build up muscle memory. So basically you are maybe bad now because you think being good 10 yrs ago means you are good now, which is not true. If you were good in Cata tho you should be able to relearn stuff quite easily.

  12. #12
    Skill at a game, especially Wow, is part reflexes and personal judgment, a lot of knowledge (of how things work, be it the fight or your class) and mostly practice. Practice practice practice. Also, you can't be taking regular breaks because you'll be behind in everything (especially gear, which matters a lot, but also on progress and getting to know fights). You'll also be seen at that player nobody groups up with because you're seldom there so you're not part of any clique. Which, im turn, makes it hard for you to practice.

  13. #13
    In the past trial extension was used by meaner guilds to deny gear to help the core team stay ahead - sonetimes as a way to reinforce arbitrary performance-based leadership, or as a way to exert control over others by keeping them incentivized with loot they'd either never or only get when no one else would.

    But that was before.

    Of course in a world where you can't trade highest ilv from personal loot, trial extension can probably not boil down to any of that but rather maybe if they had something like another trial and are trying to compare you both better to decide who keeps the position.

    Ultimately if you're worried about your performance, watch videos on fights even if you think you know them to make sure and go over class guides again to make sure you're doing everything in your power to contribute.
    Last edited by Razion; 2020-06-02 at 08:17 AM.

  14. #14
    You did not get bad in WoW, believe it or not WoW is a very simple game at its core. You have to learn the fights though. You have to study them and you will get better in no time.

  15. #15
    To me, there seems to be two issues at play here - you can be the judge of which one it is.

    1) You're in a cesspool guild. - You mention that you have joined a Heroic raiding guild in which they have a Trial process in May/June 2020 when Heroic Ny'Alotha is constantly rushed through and oneshot by pugs on a daily basis. The fact that they as a guild are attempting to looks serious by enforcing a long trial on someone rather than just inviting someone random and deciding if they want to have them after a single raid seems to me to be a way to create a facade of being serious and organized as to hide the fact that they are guildrunning pug content 5 months into the tier. Cesspool guilds are one of the biggest causes of players getting incorrect perceptions of the content. Everything from: Raid difficulty, how guild raiding is carried out, what is needed to overcome bosses, own player skill, etc.. - I have talked to friends that are in Cesspool guilds that are talking about how serious and great their raiding is going considering how hard the content is, while in reality they are Wiping for the 50th time on HEROIC N'Zoth.

    2) You're overestimating your own skill. - Raiding Heroic in Wrath is not an achievement in todays day and age. It didn't take much to clear the content, especially if you were a tank. I was also there clearing ICC25HC as a tank in my guild back then and I barely spoke English but it didn't matter because so long as I knew how to tank the boss I didn't really need to communicate with my guild about anything. Granted, Heroic raiding does not require any communication now either if you just make assignments ahead of time and your players are even somewhat self-sufficient. The fact that you find the timer in M+ to be stressful, tight and the cause of you making mistakes also speak to you never really being great in the first place, or just way too inexperienced with the game now for this to be a thing.
    If the panic that the M+ timer creates for you doesn't go away after being back in the game 4-5 weeks then you probably were never that good at the game to be honest.

  16. #16
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    Its just all about to know mechanics. Otherside retail became action game deep u need to act fast and roll face skills on ur keyborad.

  17. #17
    WotLk was a different time. Bosses had like 3 mechanics back then. Bosses and m+ nowadays are a constant storm of 20 different abilities overlapping and trying to murder you and if you're not used to that you'll just get fucked - which looks especially bad when you compare yourself to people who had months and years of time to get used to all that stuff.

    You became when you stopped playing for 10 years and everyone else didn't while the game was constantly evolving and getting more and more complex.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by HollowHills View Post
    Hi all,

    Long time lurker, first time poster.

    I recently came back to wow after a break since the beginning of bfa. I leveled a bit, worked on my gear and eventually joined a heroic raising guild who I've been with for just over a month.

    I really like this guild and I've enjoyed being back in the game, yesterday was meant to be the end of my trial but I was told by the officers that they've extended the trial due to errors I've made during raids. I can't recall all the errors, but I remember yesterday that I messed up standing in the right spot for vita on raden, ran through people with paranoia on nzoth a few times and also died on nzoth.

    I've also enjoyed doing mythic+, but at times I find it a bit overwhelming especially with how tight the timers are. It seems like everyone else knows exactly what to do, but I often make mistakes that hold the group back.

    I'm worried now that even if I pass my trial I will always be seen as a bad player. Meaning I don't get invited to groups etc or if I am its seen as doing me a favour or as a carry.

    The weird thing is back in the day I was a hardcore raider, for instance I mained a blood dk and cleared heroic icc 25 during wrath and raided heroic all throughout cata.

    So my question is what changed? How have I ended up in this spot.

    When did I become bad at wow?
    is this a thing in WoW? Trials.. in raids?? Specially in heroic ones, not mythic? wtf you play WoW to take your mind off your job and the real world, and now you gotta work your ass off in a video game too? wtf

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Gasparde View Post
    WotLk was a different time. Bosses had like 3 mechanics back then. Bosses and m+ nowadays are a constant storm of 20 different abilities overlapping and trying to murder you and if you're not used to that you'll just get fucked - which looks especially bad when you compare yourself to people who had months and years of time to get used to all that stuff.
    I wouldn't say so. I think that they still have like 4-5 abilites. The only difference is that the % are higher, especially on mythic.

    Maybe current mythic bosses are slighty harder(compared to heroic wotlk, I meant ICC or Ulduar), but I wouldn't say that they're more complex by like... 200% or so.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by HollowHills View Post
    Hi all,

    Long time lurker, first time poster.

    I recently came back to wow after a break since the beginning of bfa. I leveled a bit, worked on my gear and eventually joined a heroic raising guild who I've been with for just over a month.

    I really like this guild and I've enjoyed being back in the game, yesterday was meant to be the end of my trial but I was told by the officers that they've extended the trial due to errors I've made during raids. I can't recall all the errors, but I remember yesterday that I messed up standing in the right spot for vita on raden, ran through people with paranoia on nzoth a few times and also died on nzoth.

    I've also enjoyed doing mythic+, but at times I find it a bit overwhelming especially with how tight the timers are. It seems like everyone else knows exactly what to do, but I often make mistakes that hold the group back.

    I'm worried now that even if I pass my trial I will always be seen as a bad player. Meaning I don't get invited to groups etc or if I am its seen as doing me a favour or as a carry.

    The weird thing is back in the day I was a hardcore raider, for instance I mained a blood dk and cleared heroic icc 25 during wrath and raided heroic all throughout cata.

    So my question is what changed? How have I ended up in this spot.

    When did I become bad at wow?
    This is how it feels to be back to a game where everyone else has done the content and you are new to it.

    This is how it feels even now(not just you, even me, I'm a 12/12M raid leader) if you don't get in for the first few pulls on a boss and you get brought in for a rekill. You are nowhere near the experience level of those that have "learnt"(and made mistakes) the fight and killed it the first time. Their mistakes arent explored because everyone else was making those mistakes too but now you just feel like the odd one out.

    There are many advantages to learning a fight - You can make mistakes, you learn from other's mistakes, you know the cooldown timings, etc. You don't have the luxury of those.

    Don't get discouraged, go into shadow lands strong, you will have an even play ground and you won't feel bad.

    PS: If anyone takes a break from WoW, i never judge them based on current tier, because they rarely have the same experience we do as a guild/team. There is a lot to coming back mid tier, (id say this tier is done and dusted now though), you need proper essences, you need proper azerite, you don't know the CD timings/kill times, even if you've watched 100 videos you lack firsthand experience of mechanics and sometimes even rotations/play style for a class changes due to essence/tier bonuses etc.

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