Another "I can't breath" death: Police Reform & Protests in the USA

[Zeth Hawkins]

Nah, I'm referring to your earlier handwringing which is put in an even more hilarious light given your signature.

Marsha Johnson would be disgusted with the things you've said.

Who? And which things?

[Rune B]

Really? Well, since you asked, here's a reading list to help you get started!

None of this is evidence that Derek Chauvin killed George Floyd because of his race.

[Elegiac]

None of this is evidence that Derek Chauvin killed George Floyd because of his race.

You're right, it's a primer to help you get started in understanding the racial animus in this country and the ways it impacts every social, legal, and economic interaction.

Once you have educated yourself on that, then you may graduate to something more nuanced like talking about the specifics of why a pig killed George Floyd.

[Rune B]

Yeah.
And while we are talking about people just assuming things, can we maybe talk about jews back then?
I don't understand how everyone became convinced that Nazis gassed them because they were jews. I am pretty sure that was just a coincidence.

I'm not sure how many logical fallacies it's possible to stuff into three lines of text, but I congratulate you on the effort.

There is no evidence George Floyd was killed because of his race. None. Zero. Zilch. Zip. Nada. Motivation is a terribly difficult thing to prove even in a court of law.

- - - Updated - - -

Once you have educated yourself on that, then you may graduate to something more nuanced like talking about the specifics of why a pig killed George Floyd.

Now you're just being mean to pigs. Pigs are wonderful animals. Humans are the real villains.

But you still have no proof that Chauvin intentionally killed Floyd, let alone because of his race.

[eschatological]

None of this is evidence that Derek Chauvin killed George Floyd because of his race.

The accusation is that systemic racism that leads to cops over-policing, over-arresting, over-charging, and in general being more likely to shoot if a perp is black is why George Floyd is dead.

He tried to pay with a $20 that was fake, and we don't even know if he knew it was fake. And for that (which the cops originally trumped up as "forgery" as if he made the fucking bill himself) he was killed, despite all video evidence showing he wasn't resisting at all.

And that's a result of a system that is fundamentally racist, because passing bad bills happens thousands of times a day, and barely warrants a police report, let alone an arrest with 4 cops, 3 of whom are pinning you down for some unexplained reason.

- - - Updated - - -

I don't know why Chauvin did what he did. I just know he belongs in jail.

I also know that police kill a lot of people every year, but you'll only ever hear about the black victims. Something like 42 unarmed people were shot by police in 2019. 9 of them were black. You'd never, ever guess that if you just watched national news. It's frustrating, because the whole issue needs to be fixed, but we can't seem to discuss it.

So, blacks who make up 13% of the population accounted for 21% of the cops shooting? I addressed this already in a reply to you, you didn't respond. Blacks (and brown people) are disproportionately likely to be shot by police, per capita, than white people.

[Elegiac]

Now you're just being mean to pigs. Pigs are wonderful animals. Humans are the real villains.

But you still have no proof that Chauvin intentionally killed Floyd, let alone because of his race.

It's kind of immaterial regardless because the problem is greater than the pig or George Floyd. It's a systemic problem for a reason, Karen.

Also: if I place my knee on a man's neck and apply pressure over the course of several minutes and both he and bystanders were pleading that I was killing him ("I can't breathe"), a reasonable person would assume that yes, you are in fact performing a potentially fatal action and should cut it the fuck out. The unequivocal nature of the killing on video is one of the precise reasons there is so much outrage.

But hey, we already established that the MPD are incompetent boobs with their failure to do anything about any of the 18 prior complaints lodged against aforementioned swine so not understanding basic English directives wouldn't be too far off the course for them.

[Yuujin]

I don't know why Chauvin did what he did. I just know he belongs in jail.

I also know that police kill a lot of people every year, but you'll only ever hear about the black victims. Something like 42 unarmed people were shot by police in 2019. 9 of them were black. You'd never, ever guess that if you just watched national news. It's frustrating, because the whole issue needs to be fixed, but we can't seem to discuss it.

Feel free to protest police violence against other races then.

I mean, I would certainly hope black unarmed kills are smaller than whites considering they are like 14% of the US population, but they account for more than 14% of the killings. If it is Blacks who are going to be the ones to finally take a stand against a corrupt police force while Whites remain complacent, and they are the ones who lead the rest of us to Police Reform, then more power to them.

[Elegiac]

Feel free to protest police violence against other races then.

I mean, I would certainly hope black unarmed kills are smaller than whites considering they are like 14% of the US population, but they account for more than 14% of the killings. If it is Blacks who are going to be the ones to finally take a stand against a corrupt police force while Whites remain complacent, and they are the ones who lead the rest of us to Police Reform, then more power to them.

I mean it also ignores the whole structure of systemic racism set up against black people but Bovinity doesn't believe that exists either, so.

Imagine trying to make a virtue out of wokescolding people protesting police violence. Christ on a bike.

[Rune B]

So, blacks who make up 13% of the population accounted for 21% of the cops shooting? I addressed this already in a reply to you, you didn't respond. Blacks (and brown people) are disproportionately likely to be shot by police, per capita, than white people.

Because criminality does not happen at a per capita demographic rate. More crime means more deaths by police.

In 2017 blacks made up
-12.7% of the population
-24.7% of those killed by police
-53% of murderers, 54% of robberies and so on and so forth

Minority race officers also shoot black suspects at virtually identical rates.

[eschatological]

Actually, it's just blacks.

Every other race seems to have roughly the same rate of police killings.

Nonetheless, the narrative that cops are just gunning down blacks - and only blacks - constantly in the streets is a false one.

Is this some bullshit #AllLivesMatter argument?

No one is claiming black people are the only ones gunned down by cops.

What people are saying is that they are gunned down at a rate much higher than their population suggests, per capita. It's a matter of addressing the most severe problem head on. What you're advocating for seems to be like getting liposuction should be considered equally important to removing a tumor. Both are major surgeries, after all, and have pretty large risks......but one is clearly the bigger problem.

I also put, in that post, a non-black person gunned down unjustly by cops. I guess you ignored that too, since your original post talked about "hey, no one ever reports on the poor people who aren't black who are gunned down by cops!!11!"

[Elegiac]

Because criminality does not happen at a per capita demographic rate. More crime means more deaths by police.

In 2017 blacks made up
-12.7% of the population
-24.7% of those killed by police
-53% of murderers, 54% of robberies and so on and so forth

The logical next step is exploring why the crime rate is so high.

But I have a feeling such might dig a little into some uncomfortable beliefs of yours about the inherent natures of certain people that aren't considered fit for polite society. Just a feeling.

Minority race officers also shoot black suspects at virtually identical rates.

Man it's almost as if it's a racist system.

This is some "I have a black friend" level clownery.

[eschatological]

Because criminality does not happen at a per capita demographic rate. More crime means more deaths by police.

In 2017 blacks made up
-12.7% of the population
-24.7% of those killed by police
-53% of murderers, 54% of robberies and so on and so forth

Minority race officers also shoot black suspects at virtually identical rates.

Again, studies show black people don't commit crimes at a higher rate than white people.

What does happen, is they are:
Over-policed
over-arrested
over-charged
over-prosecuted
over-convicted
over-sentenced
and over-killed by the state, compared to the white population.

So yeah, maybe don't quote stats about how equally unjust our justice system is. Imagine quoting a fucking stat that says "well, black people just happen to be more criminal" when actual studies exist showing that not to be true.

[Rune B]

But I have a feeling such might dig a little into some uncomfortable beliefs about the inherent natures of certain people that aren't considered fit for polite society. Just a feeling.

Not at all. The US has systemic racism. It just doesn't necessarily translate into killings by police at a 1:1 ratio.

And there is no way, unless you're a mind reader, that you could know what was in the arresting officer's head. Simply leaping to the conclusion that it was racism is completely unfounded.

[pathora44]

Again, studies show black people don't commit crimes at a higher rate than white people.

What does happen, is they are:
Over-policed
over-arrested
over-charged
over-prosecuted
over-convicted
over-sentenced
and over-killed by the state, compared to the white population.

So yeah, maybe don't quote stats about how equally unjust our justice system is. Imagine quoting a fucking stat that says "well, black people just happen to be more criminal" when actual studies exist showing that not to be true.

But that doesn't go along with racist pseudo-science that says black people are criminals and he/she wants that to be true.

[Elegiac]

Again, studies show black people don't commit crimes at a higher rate than white people.

What does happen, is they are:
Over-policed
over-arrested
over-charged
over-prosecuted
over-convicted
over-sentenced
and over-killed by the state, compared to the white population.

So yeah, maybe don't quote stats about how equally unjust our justice system is. Imagine quoting a fucking stat that says "well, black people just happen to be more criminal" when actual studies exist showing that not to be true.

It boggles the mind how easy it is to get these people to admit they hold inherently racist beliefs when they spend so much of their time constructing a persona of political moderacy.

Literally. Hardly any digging and we're already getting into the territory of "well maybe black people are just inherently more violent and criminal?" And I think the funniest part is the way in which the question is asked, as though even verbalising that question doesn't immediately call your entire belief set into question.

- - - Updated - - -

Not at all. The US has systemic racism. It just doesn't necessarily translate into killings by police at a 1:1 ratio.

And there is no way, unless you're a mind reader, that you could know what was in the arresting officer's head. Simply leaping to the conclusion that it was racism is completely unfounded.

I mean, that's true.

But I can tell you as a healthcare worker that has had to deal with many, many difficult and sometimes violent patients that we manage to do our jobs just fine without asphyxiating anyone to death on camera over the course of nearly ten minutes.

And we do so without the pigs' high salaries and cushy pensions, to boot. Often for minimum wage.

[Rune B]

Again, studies show black people don't commit crimes at a higher rate than white people.

What does happen, is they are:
Over-policed
over-arrested
over-charged
over-prosecuted
over-convicted
over-sentenced
and over-killed by the state, compared to the white population.

So yeah, maybe don't quote stats about how equally unjust our justice system is. Imagine quoting a fucking stat that says "well, black people just happen to be more criminal" when actual studies exist showing that not to be true.

That is simply not true when you have 12.7% of the population committing 53% of murders and 54% of robberies etc.

Murder is an extremely, extremely robust statistic. The overwhelming majority of murders of any ethnicity is at the hands of their own ethnicity.

If racism was a significant motivation, you wouldn't expect blacks to murder three times as many whites as whites murder blacks.

[eschatological]

That is simply not true when you have 12.7% of the population committing 53% of murders and 54% of robberies etc.

Murder is an extremely, extremely robust statistic. The overwhelming majority of murders of any ethnicity is at the hands of their own ethnicity.

If racism was a significant motivation, you wouldn't expect blacks to murder three times as many whites as whites murder blacks.

Two white guys were free for two months after shooting a black jogger. It was only when video of their execution surfaced on social media and the news that they were arrested.

Murders get excused as "accidents" and "unintentional" and "self defense" and so on and so forth in many communities. It's part of the whole "over-charging" line I put in there. You think there aren't gang bangers in jail for murder when they were just defending themselves from another person trying to kill them? Those guys get the book thrown at them, and rarely get to invoke self-defense at trial, for a myriad of reasons.

[Elegiac]

That is simply not true when you have 12.7% of the population committing 53% of murders and 54% of robberies etc.

Murder is an extremely, extremely robust statistic. The overwhelming majority of murders of any ethnicity is at the hands of their own ethnicity.

If racism was a significant motivation, you wouldn't expect blacks to murder three times as many whites as whites murder blacks.

Lol, cute,

If you'll put the apartheid science book down for a moment, allow me to inform you that racism is not a function of one person being prejudiced.

[Yuujin]

Because criminality does not happen at a per capita demographic rate. More crime means more deaths by police.

In 2017 blacks made up
-12.7% of the population
-24.7% of those killed by police
-53% of murderers, 54% of robberies and so on and so forth

Minority race officers also shoot black suspects at virtually identical rates.

https://www.sentencingproject.org/pu...state-prisons/

So, basically all the ARREST statistics show, is you're more likely to be arrested for something as a Black person. You're also more likely to be convicted, because while the same report you referred to showed WHITES commiting more than 50% of all violent crimes in America, African Americans are incarcerated in state prisons across the country at more than five times the rate of whites, and at least ten times the rate in five states.

[Noxx79]

Local law enforcement always take the lead in their jurisdictions. Then you can look up Martial Law. This is Civics 101.

As I said, I am done engaging as you just want to be inflamatory.

Yeah you’re a liar who can’t back up what’s been proven to be false.

Fuck off.