Another "I can't breath" death: Police Reform & Protests in the USA

[Lorgar Aurelian]

Maybe they can start empathizing with the black people protesting because they feel this way with almost every police interaction, eh?

they are clearly in fear but unlike black people not in fear for there lifes.

[Grimbold21]

What are the merits of being on the wrong side of history?

Cheap maga hats and Confederate flags?

Are you suggesting that looters stand on the wrong side of history?

[Elegiac]

I do not say I don't understand the underlying feeling

Then take a step back until you do.

This is not the moment for white people to make everything about themselves and whine about "but what about public order".

[Yuujin]

Literally at no point do I see a weapon in the large mans hand. His friend in the shorts is armed but never raises his gun, and without audio on that video there's nothing to back up your analysis.

The "smoke" you see near the doorway in the second half of the video? It didn't come from the door, something near the door was shot, in the direction of the door (not the police) and you see it fall off.

You gotta love how the footage suddenly gets insanely bright when the alleged shooting happens, then suddenly the quality changes, and the lump on the ground that moments ago wasn't defined, suddenly looks like a perfectly shaped gun.

[Elegiac]

You gotta love how the footage suddenly gets insanely bright when the alleged shooting happens, then suddenly the quality changes, and the lump on the ground that moments ago wasn't defined, suddenly looks like a perfectly shaped gun.

Pfffft what are you talking about it's not like the police would ever plant evidence as justification for violence.

A cop appeared to put his own baton in a black man’s hand before kneeling on him and punching him during the George Floyd protests in Philadelphia. The clip begins as the protesters is already being wrestled to the ground by an cop while another man, who appears to be a law enforcement officer, sits down alongside the scuffle. A third officer is then seen running into the frame with what appears to be a baton in his hand. The baton-wielding officer begins to grapple with the protester. Then, at the 13-second mark of the clip, he appears to throw his baton on the ground while his knee is on either the back of the protester’s neck or head. The cop then seems to force the man’s hand on top of the baton before punching him in an apparent attempt to disarm the man who did not appear to have a weapon during the onset of the struggle. More officers arrive to arrest the protester while one cop screams at the woman behind the camera to back up with a taser in his hand.

[Breccia]

Posted without further comment.

Minnesota raises charge against fired officer in George Floyd case, charges three others

Minnesota Attorney General Keith Ellison will increase the charge against a fired Minneapolis police officer to second-degree murder in the death of an unarmed black man and level charges against the three other fired officers in a case that has led to more than a week of sometimes violent protests across the United States, the Star Tribune newspaper said on Wednesday.

Chauvin, 44, was fired and charged last week with third-degree murder and second-degree manslaughter. Second-degree murder - the new charge - can carry a sentence of up to 40 years, 15 years longer than the maximum sentence for third-degree murder.

The three others who were involved in the incident - Thomas Lane, J. Alexander Kueng and Tou Thao - will be charged with aiding and abetting murder, the Minnesota-based newspaper said, citing sources.

[Elegiac]

Posted without further comment.

Minnesota raises charge against fired officer in George Floyd case, charges three others

Overdue, but good. Hopefully we'll see that initiative to disband the MPD carried out as well.

[Mayhem]

snip

Yeah, if you now start ignoring what I write in the posts it's better to stop this right here, it's offtopic anyway.

[Endus]

And what is that 60% supposed to do? Any action they take will instantly be labeld as "police brutality". They are not apathetic. They are in fear. Everyone calls them names, demonizes than and attacks every single move, but not one of you have actually said what they should be doing about the roiting and lotting and real protests. What do you specifically want them to do?

They're supposed to;
A> Arrest any colleagues who cross the line
B> Defend the rights of citizens without abusing their authority
C> Use the minimum amount of force necessary to effect a legitimate arrest or to defuse an already-violent situation
And D> Not react when they're called names and insulted and disrespected and demonized. They get to suck it the fuck up and stop being pathetic little fucking cowards who need to lash out and prop up their fragile little egos.

This is not a high fuckin' bar to expect.

Literally at no point do I see a weapon in the large mans hand. His friend in the shorts is armed but never raises his gun, and without audio on that video there's nothing to back up your analysis.

Even if they are armed; so fucking what? It's their property. The 2nd Amendment exists. There's shit going on outside and that gives them cause to arm themselves, in case they need to use it. Holding a weapon as a black man cannot be a death sentence, in the USA. That's the entire problem.

I watched the security cam video, I don't see any indication that he fired first. I see a black man (maybe armed, maybe not), who raised his arm (no evidence of any weapon in it), and was shot as a result.

The "smoke" you see near the doorway in the second half of the video? It didn't come from the door, something near the door was shot, in the direction of the door (not the police) and you see it fall off.

It actually looks like one officer fired a paint round (his gun looks like a paint gun, with the kidney-bean paintball reservoir on top, right?) at the people in the doorway (strike 1, because fuckin' why?), it hit a bottle of something carbonated on the table (cola, probably), which fell off, and then either the bang from hitting the ground or the "pop" of the cola bottle bursting made them think there was a gunshot, so they unloaded on the entryway. And if that's the case, they're incompetent, murderous fuckwads.

[Grimbold21]

Then take a step back until you do.

This is not the moment for white people to make everything about themselves and whine about "but what about public order".

This is pointless and, in my view, an equal misappropriation as that of the other Riot is the language of the unheard quote.

Correct my assumption if you will, but you seem to insist on not making a distinction between these 3 levels, that is, of Protesting, Rioting and Looting, though i'd wager is the latter could be the final product of the second.

If that is indeed your intention, I can see clearly why you'd want to use that quote in an attempt to justify said position.

It's quite easy to pull out a quote such as Riot is the language of the unheard ignoring the broader context in which it was said.

I've always said, and I will always continue to say, that riots are socially destructive and self-defeating. I'm still convinced that nonviolence is the most potent weapon available to oppressed people in their struggle for freedom and justice. I feel that violence will only create more social problems than they will solve. That in a real sense it is impracticable for the Negro to even think of mounting a violent revolution in the United States. So I will continue to condemn riots, and continue to say to my brothers and sisters that this is not the way. And continue to affirm that there is another way.

Much like it would be dishonest from my part to not refer to his passage a couple of paragraphs below, in which he says he understands why riots happens and appeals to the broader American society to figure out the underlying causes that lead to such responses.

Understanding that, however, is not synonymous with endorsing said actions, as MLK explained. I dunno, I didn't read the full speech other than the necessary paragraphs.

So, I don't know what this is about. It's quite simple, actually, to understand the feelings of revolt and disgust one would feel in this situation and why they'd more than likely feel prone to exact a violent response.

But, even though I agree that there's racists officers over there, I'm not about to undermine an entire police much in the same way I don't commit the dishonesty of saying the protesters are crap because of the actions of looters.

[Endus]

Posted without further comment.

Minnesota raises charge against fired officer in George Floyd case, charges three others

That's a first step. This isn't a victory. This is the absolute bare minimum they could be expected to do. It's like if you found a human finger in your fast-food chili, and the manager offered to refund you the price of the chili. Okay, thanks, but we've got some bigger fuckin' issues to talk about.

[Katchii]

Saying that looting is a scant issue compared to well over 100 years of serious systemic issues which is the cause of the looting is disingenuous? Compared to literally systemic oppression, it is a lesser issue. If you solve the issue you wouldn't end up with the looting to begin with.

Agreed that it's a symptom of a much larger issue, I'm just saying that looting and rioting hits people hard and isn't a "scant" issue....it can destroy people's lives, it's not a small thing.

[Grimbold21]

I'm suggesting hyperfocusing on looting is putting you there.

Why would it? My default position is to stand agaisnt any form of violence or bigotry.

A police officer stood on top of a man to the point he killed him while others around him watched. Of course I'd condemn that.

Of course I understand the feeling of revolt, and, consequently support protests over it.

But violence is violence, and if its indiscriminate, all the more reason to be agaisnt it. I can't speak for others, but my "hyperfocus" on looters stems from the sad irony that they do more harm to a just cause than anything else. Much like it disgusts me that the authorities employ shady tactics to undermine the credibility of the protests.

[omeomorfismo]

Yeah but you gotta admit the current Lega Nord isn't comparable to the Bossi-Maroni-Borghezio era one. Also, as I said, I don't think Iwobi is a token or an Uncle Tom (again, in the bad, incorrect yet more widespread acceptation of the term). Many 3rd gen immigrants share his views. You might be more sheltered up there in Trentino (that's where you're from, if I remember correctly, yes?), but the situation is drastically different in Lombardy. I'm not a Northern League fan, by the way. In fact, I'm not fond of any political party in Italy. Perhaps if the Italian Radicals were still a thing I'd support them - but they are long since gone, and I won't ever be able to forgive Bonino's choice to align with M5S, despite her recent rebellious attitude.
M5S' political spectrum is all-encompassing, a large base of them are actually disgruntled Renziani and other disillusioned leftists; there are some former LN supporters as well of course, but less so than leftists. Their only common denominator is ignorance anyway.
As to the police, I urge you once again, "non far di tutta l'erba un fascio" (= don't generalize) - and consider this: the more extremist your political views are, the more likely you are to identify LE as the enemy. There is a reason as to why both hardliner commies and actual fascists (I'm speaking CasaPound, Forza Nuova, DoRa and the like, not "scarecrow fascists") hate the cops and hilariously use the same exact slurs against them. There's also a reason why the DIGOS has both the antagonisti and the aforementioned actual fascists in its crosshair.

i dont know how much LN is changed, surely, they "dropped" the open southern hate (and this is still making trouble between their older voter) but frankly i dont find any difference about immigrants. the bullshit they say now is the same that they said since i have memory (so since middle of the 90s). maybe its because they took the MSI/AN route and officially say bullshit in a enough vague way, but its clear that they still swim in the racist propaganda.
and im not saying that iwobi is a puppet, probably he believe what he says, even my boss that is peruvian as my father is openly fascist and speak about salvini as an amateur. that doesnt change the fact that they have trust in a racist party.

and casapound against the cops? lol? this is the first time i hear this. i have even a friend with his sister in the Trento's casapound and never heard any bad word against cops from her (unlike all the anarchists i know that use acab as commas) or any customer of her bar, a well know fascist den where i live.
then i didnt say that the police (and other forces) are fascist, but that they have a big problem of fascism. im not generalizing, but its a fact that the police in italy attract a lot of sympatizer, there was even a reportage about police's private chat groups full of mussolini citations and whatever some time ago (or policemen managing fascist pages on facebook, i dont rememeber so well).
or even the uneven investigations during the 70s between the red and black terrorisms.
i mean, fascists demonstrator always are so proud about their "politeness" during demonstration (even when they are litterally inciting a lynch against roms entering in public houses)....

[Breccia]

That's a first step. This isn't a victory. This is the absolute bare minimum they could be expected to do.

I understand why you'd feel that way. Because I also feel that way.

[Edge-]

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/o...vote-for-trump

Cops are the problem?

No, it's antifa! Who aren't even active in these protests, confirmed by the FBI.

https://www.businessinsider.com/fbi-...rotests-2020-6

[Mayhem]

Why would it? My default position is to stand agaisnt any form of violence or bigotry.

A police officer stood on top of a man to the point he killed him while others around him watched. Of course I'd condemn that.

Of course I understand the feeling of revolt, and, consequently support protests over it.

But violence is violence, and if its indiscriminate, all the more reason to be agaisnt it. I can't speak for others, but my "hyperfocus" on looters stems from the sad irony that they do more harm to a just cause than anything else. Much like it disgusts me that the authorities employ shady tactics to undermine the credibility of the protests.

Yes, violence is violence, and one should be against it, but if peaceful protests lead to nothing except being brutalized by the police with them getting a slap on the wrist at worst, then it is obvious that violence is the last viable form of protest.

Peaceful protests happened, for years, and nothing changed.

[Elegiac]

But, even though I agree that there's racists officers over there, I'm not about to undermine an entire police much in the same way I don't commit the dishonesty of saying the protesters are crap because of the actions of looters.

Which is partially why you do not get the issue. Your seen to have view of a formalised police department as a good thing that should get the benefit of the doubt, which is amusing considering you want to lambast me for ignoring historical context.

"ACAB" and similar sentiments do not exist because people hate police 'for reasons'. Nor is branding the institution of police wicked in any way comparable to generalised statements about people for their race, because one is an elective profession.

Again, you keep underlining your opposition to violence without the understanding that in many cases the enforcement of order, or the system itself, are forms of violence.

But they don't count because they aren't sufficiently spectacular in the exact sense of the term, or are levied against people society deems undesirable and thus deserving of maltreatment.

[Edge-]

Peaceful protests happened, for years, and nothing changed.

I mean a bunch of professional sports players peacefully took a knee during sporting events and the same people pearl clutching and whinging and moaning about the violence now (not necessarily here, but in the public media) were the same people whinging and moaning about that peaceful protest and how inappropriate it was then.

Because to these people, there is no way to properly protest. The only way to properly protest is to shut the fuck up and accept your lot in life, even if that lot in life is living in near constant fear that law enforcement can murder you over a fixit ticket or a bad check/bill.

[Elegiac]

I mean a bunch of professional sports players peacefully took a knee during sporting events and the same people pearl clutching and whinging and moaning about the violence now (not necessarily here, but in the public media) were the same people whinging and moaning about that peaceful protest and how inappropriate it was then.

Because to these people, there is no way to properly protest. The only way to properly protest is to shut the fuck up and accept your lot in life, even if that lot in life is living in near constant fear that law enforcement can murder you over a fixit ticket or a bad check/bill.

I am always opposed to violence. Except institutional violence against certain demographics. That doesn't count. /s