Mega-Thread: Trump Focused Discussion

[fwc577]

You know. A lot of White People who are younger have been looting their entire lives in protest. We just call it piracy and the protest is against the high cost of digital entertainment that often costs pennies to produce (as far as physical production costs are concerned). Figures that when Black folks do it for a much more noble cause of preventing the killing of innocent people, those people are viewed as thugs and ruining society.

[Breccia]

I can see this turning into 60-40 or even say 58-38 over the next 4 months. That would be a slight decay in Trump's base, with the remaining undecided mostly moving to Biden. At this point, the RNC might "ask him nicely" to drop out - nicely as in "if you drop out of the President election now, we promise not to work with democrats to put you in jail for the rest of your life". They could then make their nominees (President and Vice President) whoever they wanted them to be.

Trump's been at 38% before. He didn't drop out then. For him to fake a heart attack, we'd need far closer to 30%.

[Omega10]

Cops are straight up murdering people.

And Trump is cheering them on.

I don't think this is something new. I think that the new part is that people are using their phones to capture this horrid behavior on film. This prevents the cops from using plausible denial to get away with really atrocious behavior.

[fwc577]

I don't think it has to get unspeakably bad for the remaining non-republicans to swing behind Biden and for Trump's base start to crack a bit. Right now the poll is 52-41. I can see this turning into 60-40 or even say 58-38 over the next 4 months. That would be a slight decay in Trump's base, with the remaining undecided mostly moving to Biden. At this point, the RNC might "ask him nicely" to drop out - nicely as in "if you drop out of the President election now, we promise not to work with democrats to put you in jail for the rest of your life". They could then make their nominees (President and Vice President) whoever they wanted them to be.

Right now, conservative groups are airing the most negative Trump ads that are in circulation. There already is a core set of republicans trying to kick Trump out of their party. As the US deteriorates, and as Trump does more and more stupid and outlandish things, expect their number to grow, and by a lot.

It will be a gamble for Trump still and he is stubborn enough to let it all burn down with him.

This promise of not working with the Democrats means that they are going to hope that a new candidate and possibly some new people running in the Senate will translate to them not losing control of both chambers. If we start subpoenaing these jackasses and getting real investigations, nothing the Republicans can do that will stop this from criminally charging Trump unless they can find some Democrats to swing to their side to stall/tank those investigations.

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Trump's been at 38% before. He didn't drop out then. For him to fake a heart attack, we'd need far closer to 30%.

Difference between now and then is that time is quickly evaporating for him to improve and if we're looking at 60-40 or worse when it comes to support for Biden-Trump, at that point the Republican party is throwing all their political capital in the garbage for 2-4 years.

[Omega10]

Trump's been at 38% before. He didn't drop out then. For him to fake a heart attack, we'd need far closer to 30%.

If the RNC gives him an ultimatum, he'll fold. Having said that - all you are doing is moving the goal posts a bit. I am thinking maybe 58-38 would work, you are saying it would need to be like 25 points rather than 20, say 61-36. I am 100% in pushing for a 61-36 result, and at this point I think it is doable.

Celebrate the victories, like the fact that Texas is now even, and hopefully soon when Biden has a lead in Texas, but keep the pressure on EVERY STEP OF THE WAY.

And don't take the problems the US is facing personally. Keep yourself sane along the way, and don't get TOO caught up in the political hysteria. These are crazy times, and you are definitely someone we need to stay sane through the whole ordeal

[Smitzelplix]

Here's a link to a video that shows a bit of what happened before his photo op and during his photo op Trump Vs. Reality.

[Lenonis]

The way Trump has handled this has been a gift to Biden. I was fairly certain Trump was going to take the election in November but its going to be hard for many people on the fence to deny Trump's incompetence now.

I think it's safe to say that anyone still supporting Trump at this point has no bar too low for them to change their mind.

Then you add on to that the people who hate Trump but hate the idea of a democratic president even more...

And you have a situation where we shouldn't ever get comfortable and should work as hard as we can to get democratic voters to turn out turn out turn out.

[Elegiac]

A bully, in their natural environment. Heavily armed, backed up by dozens of other heavily armed "buddies", with the "law on their side", gleefully taunting protesters in the hopes that he'll be able to assault them.

Too many police forces are packed with highschool bullies that never outgrew that mentality.

That Sarah Silverman sketch continues to throw scalding tea everywhere.

"Ma'am, do you know why I'm standing here today?"
"You got all C's in High School?"

[NoiseTank13]

Look what it took, and how long, to achieve this outcome.

I wouldn't get excited. All that means is it'll be easier for him to get off.

[PhaelixWW]

Actually yes.

The police only works because people agree to give police the power. If the trust of the citizens is waning, they can either try to rebuild that trust or try to enforce their power in other ways (weapons for example). The problem with the second way is that it leads into a spiral of mistrust and armament.

In essence: Police has power, because we agree they have. They may have gadgets etc. but when it comes to it, there are much more citizens, and when the citizens finally decide police doesn't earn the trust/power, then yeah, they are fewer in numbers...

Actually, no.

There is a precisely 0% chance that the NYPD will decide that they've had enough and pack it in, letting the protestors do whatever they want so that the cops can get some rest. That's simply not going to happen. What is far more likely to happen is that tensions will keep ratcheting up as the police become even more exhausted, leading to more stupid, senseless, violent outcomes.

Nobody wins by hoping that the police aren't allowed any time off and trying to "outlast" them.

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If the RNC gives him an ultimatum, he'll fold.

I seriously doubt that, at this point. I mean, what's the incentive? He can call their bluff, and if he wins he wins, and if he loses he can blame them for being RINOs (traitors) and declare his own, new MAGA political party.

[Pannonian]

Actually, no.

There is a precisely 0% chance that the NYPD will decide that they've had enough and pack it in, letting the protestors do whatever they want so that the cops can get some rest. That's simply not going to happen. What is far more likely to happen is that tensions will keep ratcheting up as the police become even more exhausted, leading to more stupid, senseless, violent outcomes.

Nobody wins by hoping that the police aren't allowed any time off and trying to "outlast" them.

Everyone has a breaking point, and these cops will need to decide on which side of history they want to stand. If you're out tonight "protecting" a racist system from peaceful protestor, i don't have an ounce of pity for you.

Not saying it will happen because of this case. I think it'll die down, until the next case happens, and the next - maybe it will never happen, but sooner or later people are so fed up that the police will just be wiped out.

[TigTone]

Everyone has a breaking point, and these cops will need to decide on which side of history they want to stand. If you're out tonight "protecting" a racist system from peaceful protestor, i don't have an ounce of pity for you.

Not saying it will happen because of this case. I think it'll die down, until the next case happens, and the next - maybe it will never happen, but sooner or later people are so fed up that the police will just be wiped out.

At that point they would just be put on rotational shift with National guard so everyone gets sleep and rest.

[Edge-]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world...792_story.html

Esper is keeping the military deployed in DC. Guess this is what he had to give in order to be allowed to "speak out" against Trump for the stupid church photo op.

[Pannonian]

At that point they would just be put on rotational shift with National guard so everyone gets sleep and rest.

And you end in a military police state... yeah, i know

But that's the point i'm harking on:

The military has power because they can enforce it.
The police has power because we agree they can have it. Even with their military toys they're not a military force in numbers and training, they cannot do what the military can do.

So if a system looses the trust of the population the police cannot keep the order, but a military force has to. In this scenario, the military takes over, as the police has been wiped out.

Which brings me to: Either you change the system, or sooner or later it will devolve into a military police state.

[Thekri]

At that point they would just be put on rotational shift with National guard so everyone gets sleep and rest.

At 12/7 shifts? Why? You can do that indefinitely. The guard would laugh them out of town if they asked for that, because the Guard does much worse shifts then that when deployed. I did about 15-16 hours a day, 7 days a week, no holidays for a year straight every time. Yes, it sucks for the first month or two, but it becomes the normal. As long as you get 6+ hours of sleep you never really have to slow down.

There is literally no way protestors can outlast the NYPD. But they don't have too per se. All they have to do is keep documenting everything. If the NYPD can't get under control of itself, they are going to drive a wedge between them and their own chain of command. De Blasio and Cuomo might want to side with the police, but that is political poison for both of them right now. They will have to leash their dogs, the NYPD has already blown all its political capital and then some. You can only ride the "Heroes of 9/11" train for a decade or so, it starts wearing thin by 2020.

[JohnBrown1917]

The RNC is not stupid enough to get rid of Trump. Without the trump supporters, who would they have left besides the Neoconservatives?
Trump is also way to arrogant to step down.

[Breccia]

Difference between now and then is that time is quickly evaporating for him to improve and if we're looking at 60-40 or worse when it comes to support for Biden-Trump, at that point the Republican party is throwing all their political capital in the garbage for 2-4 years.

If the RNC gives him an ultimatum, he'll fold.

Could be.

The economy is going to improve by September, but it won't get aback to 2019 levels. At some point, people will blame the man in charge who said Only I Can Fix It, But I Didn't.

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Esper is keeping the military deployed in DC.

"I disagree with the things I am doing".

Well, I guess it goes from retroactively complicit, to actively complicit.

[Edge-]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...outputType=amp

Reminder: Trump's father, Fred, was arrested during KKK riots he was participating in in 1927.

Just some historical context.

[PhaelixWW]

sooner or later people are so fed up that the police will just be wiped out.

This sentiment shows you glorifying violence just as much as the people you claim to have "not an ounce of pity for".

If what you're cheering on is the escalation instead of the deescalation of violence, then you are the problem you're fighting against.

[Thekri]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world...792_story.html

Esper is keeping the military deployed in DC. Guess this is what he had to give in order to be allowed to "speak out" against Trump for the stupid church photo op.

I am willing to bet that is a presidential order direct to the Pentagon. Esper has probably been sent to his room without his supper.

And you end in a military police state... yeah, i know

But that's the point i'm harking on:

The military has power because they can enforce it.
The police has power because we agree they can have it. Even with their military toys they're not a military force in numbers and training, they cannot do what the military can do.

So if a system looses the trust of the population the police cannot keep the order, but a military force has to. In this scenario, the military takes over, as the police has been wiped out.

Which brings me to: Either you change the system, or sooner or later it will devolve into a military police state.

To add to that point, once the Military becomes the sole arbiter of order and justice in a country, it doesn't take very long for them to start wondering why they are taking orders from a deranged old man in the first place. The US Military is the most powerful threat to the freedom of the world that exists, and it has been for a very long time. It wasn't that scary, because it was a very well behaved guard dog that stayed neutral.

This week has done more to damage that reputation then the last century combined. Milley is risking the entire reputation and legacy of the United States Military to placate a madman, and he risks the republic right along with it. Fuck him, he should have torn his stars off and thrown them at Trumps feet on the steps of that Church. That stunt was unforgivable, and he walked along in his uniform endorsing it. That is the cardinal sin of any military officer, he cannot endorse a political stunt, and that was the worst one he could have supported.