Taking the pulse of the community

[Caerrona]

Actually, i was hoping you would identify what was about to happen and avoid it, but you didnt. I believe they killed it on the next attempt, immediately after removing you. At least thats the information i have from speaking to someone who was in the guild, but not in the raid.

- - - Updated - - -



Literally no one has said that.

People like to make up alot of nice and catchy buzzwords.

Also people like to play above their skill level and then whine about the community when they get shown they arw complete shit.

So i haven't raided at all since M+ came out. So end of WoD.

By ops logic I'm entitled to get accepted into mythic nyalotha and die on every single fight cuz i have 0 clue what anything does and the pug HAS to accept it. They HAVE to clear the raid with someone with no knowledge.

Now any person that isnt a fucking stump in the ground would look up fights and clear heroic. In ops case take thirty seconds to enable an addon a get a fucking job. Ez

[Coconut]

Jaina mount won't be removed. It'll be put on a 1% drop rate. You can go back and farm it, eventually. Maybe you'll even have bigger chance to get it (using your alts) than with going with fresh pugs every week.
you sound extremely entitled because you seem to be used to get what you want from your friends "because I'm a collector" - as if noone else on the planet would be that, and you expect it from strangers as well, and if they don't do what you want, the way you want, they are the toxic.
I mean if the content you're running was the gul'dan mount for example, I'd say lol, requiring dbm for Gul'dan hihi haha pfffhhh. But jaina is current content.

I did not get the Gul'dan mythic mount, the content they helped me with was mainly Curve mounts because I don't raid, and I'll hopefully do 15+ Mythics with them, though I got up to ilvl 470 and I'm trying to learn, so I won't be dead at the entrance being carried, but it will be much easier with them, not gonna lie.

Yeah, I can get Jaina's mount later - in fact, the main reason I started trying was that they made her drop 2 (that, and I ran out of things to farm - I can't solo the aforementioned Gul'dan yet, nor do I have the skip, so...). I'm not mad because I might miss out on it, I'll be fine farming it later if it turns out that way, I was mad because of the attitude. Not being accepted in a group is one thing, but getting kicked out of a lockout for a petty reason is annoying, don't thing it's being entitled to believe that (of course, the RL wasn't entitled to expect a smooth 1-shot run in a pug).

[Trend]

Like I said, last time I had DBM installed, it was making my FPS drop, and it's gotten to a point in BFA where it's right on the edge anyway, so if anything it might decrease my reaction time. I'm perfectly fine accepting that I was out of my element here, just confirming that group play in WoW is a cesspool, that's all.

The only cesspool that has been exposed in this thread is your approach. You want to give advice to the raid leader after he decides to kick someone for not doing basic mechanics. You want to continue to justify not having basic raid tools installed because you have a sense of entitlement so large that you actually expect random strangers to bend to your will instead of just kicking you and picking up someone who isn't a pain in the ass. I am sorry that your rig is such trash that you can't even run addons, but if you were not toxic AF you would accept that not every group is going to want to deal with you. Even a good gamer on a potato like that is likely to have problems anyway.

In any case, I know you created this thread to get validation. Unfortunately the only real problem in your experience is you. Better luck with your next whiney thread.

[Coconut]

Actually, i was hoping you would identify what was about to happen and avoid it, but you didnt. I believe they killed it on the next attempt, immediately after removing you. At least thats the information i have from speaking to someone who was in the guild, but not in the raid.

A couple other people were removed with the paladin and myself, and the one attempt ended very early during phase one, so I don't see what difference removing me might have made. The leader was able to invite highly geared players quickly on the last boss the first day of the reset after removing a bunch of party members, what is your point?

- - - Updated - - -

The only cesspool that has been exposed in this thread is your approach. You want to give advice to the raid leader after he decides to kick someone for not doing basic mechanics.

I merely pointed out the player missed the pull, which caused him to be taken out in seconds. He might have continued to be bad, but it was hard to tell based on that attempt. I didn't force the leader to invite him back.

[Netherspark]

What I used to do was to keep DBM installed but disable all the bars, timers and various intrusive shit. So you still get the countdowns and occasional warnings etc but none of the stuff you don't need/want. Should help with FPS too, if you're having problems.

But I absolutely hate DBM and always have. More than any other reason because people depend on it so damn much.

[Coconut]

What I used to do was to keep DBM installed but disable all the bars, timers and various intrusive shit. So you still get the countdowns and occasional warnings etc but none of the stuff you don't need/want.

That's good advice, I might try that until Shadowlands at least.

[Hellobolis]

I guess the primary problem (if it can be called that... maybe it's more like a blessing) is that I'm not used to this kind of behavior. A lot of you seem to be used with it, but I don't encounter this level of toxicity very often, so when I finally did it resonated more strongly with me. I still think it's bad for WoW that it exists and that people indulge and sometimes revel in it; even if most of you here on mmo-champ have developed a resistance, I'm sure it's still eroding more casual players. If anything, it shows that people have a better experience in casual/solo content unless they're in a guild, and that Blizzard should focus more on soloable challenges like tower and visions (and hopefully Thorgast). It also justifies the existence of LFR, which is basically a pug where power is taken away from a singular leader.

it's just the situation that leads to people being trigger happy.

-it's a bunch of strangers
-it's a one try per week thing due to the lockout
-you only have 10% chance to get what you want out of it
-it's a reward that's going away soonish
-a bunch of people have probably been there a lot of times already (and they probably all feel "they should have gotten it by now")

it's just a recipy for a tense situation as soon as the slightest thing goes wrong. back when i was making jaina groups people would lose their shit if you invited someone without cutting edge.

but, obviously there is demand for a lot of types of pugs so it isn't going anywhere. people are willing to put up with it for the reward, but they do get upset if it goes wrong too.

if you really want the mount you can always just buy a boost. i hear they aint that expensive for jaina.

[Trend]

I merely pointed out the player missed the pull, which caused him to be taken out in seconds. He might have continued to be bad, but it was hard to tell based on that attempt. I didn't force the leader to invite him back.

Maybe when you run raids (which has probably never happened) you want input from the peanut gallery. Most people don't because it is obnoxious. Your inability to understand how there is a problem with your approach is consistent, I will give you that.

[Coconut]

if you really want the mount you can always just buy a boost. i hear they aint that expensive for jaina.

I'll see how it goes if I try to lead. If not, I'll probably farm it later, as I did with the other mythic mounts. Maybe it's dumb, but I'm more triggered by the douchy behavior than the perspective of not getting the mount very soon.

Maybe when you run raids (which has probably never happened) you want input from the peanut gallery. Most people don't because it is obnoxious. Your inability to understand how there is a problem with your approach is consistent, I will give you that.

I did run some raids in the past, it's not like it's a big deal xD And no, I never got triggered by people giving advice or making observations. If it was a good idea, I went with it, if it was bad I shut it down. Big whoop.

[arkanon]

That's good advice, I might try that until Shadowlands at least.

It is the increased sound channels that causes any slowdown, not a couple of bars on the screen.

[Hellobolis]

I'll see how it goes if I try to lead. If not, I'll probably farm it later, as I did with the other mythic mounts. Maybe it's dumb, but I'm more triggered by the douchy behavior than the perspective of not getting the mount very soon. .

it won't be soloable for 4 years orso. and it wont be group loot for that long too. the raid has no skip so you gotto do the whole thing each time.

maybe just farming some gold now is the more convenient option. just saying.

[Coconut]

It is the increased sound channels that causes any slowdown, not a couple of bars on the screen.

it won't be soloable for 4 years orso. and it wont be group loot for that long too. the raid has no skip so you gotto do the whole thing each time.

maybe just farming some gold now is the more convenient option. just saying.

I'll see how things go. Thanks for the advice and for the chat, it's been... therapeutic. I'll be going off for now and might not respond to future comments... unless it's something super relevant or I think of something funny.

[Powerogue]

DBM is in no way necessary, and it sounds like wouldn't have even helped. Your raid wasn't communicating by the sound of it, and quick to blame everyone but themselves for it. That, more than ilevel or addons, is what screws up groups, and I'm baffled people are blaming you for any of this.

- - - Updated - - -

What I used to do was to keep DBM installed but disable all the bars, timers and various intrusive shit. So you still get the countdowns and occasional warnings etc but none of the stuff you don't need/want. Should help with FPS too, if you're having problems.

But I absolutely hate DBM and always have. More than any other reason because people depend on it so damn much.

Any advice on how to disable all that stuff would be good, that's the same reason I stopped using it. That and Blizzard's gradual focus over the years of incorporating the necessary telegraphing into the encounters themselves. In Shadowlands we'll even have the timer.

[darklogrus]

Refusing helpful information for any activity you partake in only for the sake of it is just....weird.

I never understood people who refuse to download boss mods (dbm, bw, etc). They are the 'vegans' of wow imho, always ready to explain to everyone how their way is better and how we are essentially fools for not doing it the same.

At lot of the fights don't offer much for me to worry about as a ranged, I mean most fights only have 1 ability I have to be out of the grp for. Its not until Ill'g and the mind control that I need to actively track something. So if you need to track a flashing bar, a count down, a loud noise and words flashing on the screen you need to get out of the grp then I feel really bad for you.

As for the earlier OP, Jaina was a 22k Max Dps fight, now most classes are doing 225k-300k nullifying anything it has to offer.

[Luxeley]

Lol. Imagine a pug group where everyone has their own way. "I don't have dbm because my pc is a potato!", "I can't interrupt because I don't have macros because..." "I don't have this so I can't do that because.." etc. And if one can have it openly, then others too. A pug group is not democracy, or place for arguments and beliefs. And what does it even mean a good raid leader should educate? On how to download an essential addon?

Apparently, you completely miss the point. LOL Good thing I am still on-line so I can explain and educate. A leader sets the tone, regardless of how simple or basic things may be. The point is - if you want players with DBM in your raid, find out if they've got it before you let them in the group. And if they don't have it, it's your choice if you invite them or help them out. It's better than waiting until the middle of the raid to find out people aren't prepared.

[Seranthor]

So, I had a very unpleasant experience in game about an hour ago.

I've been primarily a casual player and a mount collector for a long time, but I managed to gear up to 470ish with the help of my high end friends, and I just recently started doing Mythic Jaina runs for the 2x chance at the water elemental.

This week I joined a group mid way, and on the first pull a party member got himself instantly frozen. I was the only one trying to unfreeze him as everyone was clumping on top of the boss instead of having the usual melee/ranged groups (neither strategy was assigned at the start, people simply decided to stand in melee and the ones who were left had to follow). Due to the clumping, the middle of the ship quickly filled up with bombs, and people were freezing themselves left and right, so we wiped in the first phase. Lots of things going wrong there.

The tank leader immediately kicked the one paladin who was frozen first and I made the mistake of standing up for him, because to the best of my knowledge there had been no pull timer, therefore missing out the few seconds until freeze was forgivable (and there were a lot of other problems on top of that). Because I said that, the leader instantly kicked me as well - apparently (he didn't say), he was using a DBM pull timer, only visible to those using the addon. I haven't been using DBM or many other addons since WoD, and I could play at an acceptable level without it (including mage tower in Legion). To be fair, I had completely forgotten it existed. Certainly it wouldn't have been a problem at Jaina, since the biggest challenge was following the marked tank, and the broadsides have visual cues in the standard UI.

To me, getting kicked (and losing my chance at the mount this week) because I tried to stand up for a fellow party member felt exceedingly cancerous. Maybe it affected me more than it would others because I don't usually descend in the septic tank that is pugging difficult content (or multi-player difficult content in general), so I want to know what other posters think. Is this normal behavior? Do you think the party leader was in the right? Or is this part of the cancer that is making wow fail as a social game? (I should probably mention that I was in no way disrespectful or pushy when defending the frozen party member, I merely pointed something out in a factual way - it was a very low bar for "questioning his decision").

While you might believe you are in the right, you are also in someone else's group, its their group, its their rules. If you want to make the rules, then you make the group. It really is that simple.

[MrLachyG]

I mean not using DBM aside (you should use it) you never ever stay back and help unfreeze someone during the running to Jaina phases. all that will do is result in you getting frozen and thereby become useless to the raid. if you're gonna join a pug make sure you know the fights and for gods sake get DBM

[Frolk]

Id also kick u for not using a boss mod, simple as that.

[De Lupe]

I agree with everything else you said 100% and fully support the rest of your post. Just one quibble about dbm.

The fact DBM tells you what's coming not just what's happening means it's always just a strict objective upgrade over no addon. You don't have to waste time (and GCDS) moving out of the fire when you were never in it to begin with.

The default UI does a much better job now than it did ten years ago at warning of those things. It's the main reason I forget I have DBM; the default UI does it's job well enough.

Furthermore, if I'm paying attention and know X attack is about to go off, so I should avoid standing in Y area then DBM or not, I won't be in that area.

It's very possible I'm biased. I'm not going to pretend be an expert, but no one can play a game for over a decade without becoming skilled at it. I'm not a Mythic raider, but I know what the fuck I'm doing. Especially with BM. I haven't raided in any serious capacity since Icecrown. And M+ can just fuck off (I hate timers for the sake of artificial difficulty and I hate what timers have done to the non-M+ dungeons; turning them all into training ground race tracks,) so maybe at the higher levels of shit DBM is more helpful than the default UI.

The game has evolved. The default UI has it's own DBM system. The add-on is not the cure-all, must have many used to consider it to be.

[gobio]

Are you part of an oppressed group that for some reason cannot use DBM? Hearing problem? Too poor and marginalize to afford a PC that can use add on?

If you are not oppressed that way, then why are those that simply wants you to use an add on oppressive and toxic? Are you not hurting the other people's feeling by not using an add on that makes them feel safe?

Do you have a legit reason that DBM is oppressive? Does the dev of DBM tweet the wrong things against minority? If that is the case then you can contact various activist group. otherwise, install your DBM!