9.0 General Discussion

[infinitemeridian]

BFA is what happens when you value cosmetics above gameplay. I'm not saying the gameplay is absolutely horrible, but Azerite and Corruption alone are some of the worst gameplay systems they have ever developed. Which is why the Pre-Warlords lack of gimmicks in Shadowlands excites me.

Literally the opposite. The cosmetics in BFA have been trash and all the focus has been on gameplay systems.

[EbaumsTipster]

Literally the opposite. The cosmetics in BFA have been trash and all the focus has been on gameplay systems.

Because the original systems were so bad. Warfronts and Islands were literally just "do this thing for a cosmetic" with little to no challenge, and then they kept adding gameplay system bandaids because the gameplay was so bad.

[huth]

Literally the opposite. The cosmetics in BFA have been trash and all the focus has been on gameplay systems.

Would you like another horse?

[EbaumsTipster]

Would you like another horse?

The early days of BFA where everyone was trying to make everything into a controversy because they were so pissed about Teldrassil was a little embarassing looking back. The rep mounts being shitty horses on Alliance is disappointing, but not worth memeing over.

Remember how mad people were that they couldn't kill mobs in two hits at launch?

[therumblings]

Literally the opposite. The cosmetics in BFA have been trash and all the focus has been on gameplay systems.

Because the original systems were so bad. Warfronts and Islands were literally just "do this thing for a cosmetic" with little to no challenge, and then they kept adding gameplay system bandaids because the gameplay was so bad.

/10characters

[Sondrelk]

The early days of BFA where everyone was trying to make everything into a controversy because they were so pissed about Teldrassil was a little embarassing looking back. The rep mounts being shitty horses on Alliance is disappointing, but not worth memeing over.

Remember how mad people were that they couldn't kill mobs in two hits at launch?

It kinda was though. Yes, it wasnt that big an issue in the grand scheme of things. But we knew that the Horde got 3 visually distinct mounts. All of them unique. Whereas the Alliance got 3 horses, 2 of the mrecolors of eachother.
There was no reason the Alliance couldnt get a wicker best from Drustvar, and maybe a storm elemental from Stormsong. But we didnt, and then Blizzards justification was beyond bullshit.

[therumblings]

I mean the Horde got their entire faction stripped of any pride they had left and publicly humiliated in defeat by the Alliance in the hideous story of BFA, they deserve all the unique mounts they can get.

[TheFirstOnes]

Makes me wonder what the endame story of Ardenweald will be. We know the kyrians will most likely be about teh Forsworn and uther, and Necrolords about Kel'thuzad. Venthyr will obviously be about the raid, but what will the Night Fae be about? There are so many choices currently. And assuming what it will be based on the endgame dungeon feels nonsensical.

My idea on the Endgame of Ardenweald:

Elune: SUP BITCHES!

Also Elune: *Fucking Dips*

[Edoll]

Does anyone expect anything new from next week’s stream besides the release date?

[Sondrelk]

Does anyone expect anything new from next week’s stream besides the release date?

Expecting a release date is pretty optimistic, honestly.

My guess is we will get a compilation of the dev teams decisions on what has happened so far, as well as some talk about plans for the Alpha going forward. Possible class changes, targeted testing, pre-patch etc.

[therumblings]

Expecting a release date is pretty optimistic, honestly.

My guess is we will get a compilation of the dev teams decisions on what has happened so far, as well as some talk about plans for the Alpha going forward. Possible class changes, targeted testing, pre-patch etc.

This. I'm keeping my expectations low.

[Jamie081]

BFA is what happens when you value cosmetics above gameplay. I'm not saying the gameplay is absolutely horrible, but Azerite and Corruption alone are some of the worst gameplay systems they have ever developed. Which is why the Pre-Warlords lack of gimmicks in Shadowlands excites me.

But azerite gear and the heart of azeroth had literally no visual presentation/cosmetic element until 8.2?

The lack of cosmetics was a major complaint when the system was compared to Legion artifacts. Even essences are tragic because they are completely unrelated to all classes visually, and the essences will be dropped with the system so they won't be carried and displayed in future expansions. The same goes with corruption, however corruption have no cosmetic reward whatsoever and are only a power increase, so I don't see the relation.

Cosmetics are a symptom, not the cause of bad gameplay.

[EbaumsTipster]

It kinda was though. Yes, it wasnt that big an issue in the grand scheme of things. But we knew that the Horde got 3 visually distinct mounts. All of them unique. Whereas the Alliance got 3 horses, 2 of the mrecolors of eachother.
There was no reason the Alliance couldnt get a wicker best from Drustvar, and maybe a storm elemental from Stormsong. But we didnt, and then Blizzards justification was beyond bullshit.

Yes it was bad, no it was not worth the screaming.

Also: they wouldn't do a livestream if it was just simple mechanics/class discussions. Expect something "HOYPE!!!!!" worthy (or at least something the devs THINK will hype the audience)

[therumblings]

But azerite gear and the heart of azeroth had literally no visual presentation/cosmetic element until 8.2?

The lack of cosmetics was a major complaint when the system was compared to Legion artifacts. Even essences are tragic because they are completely unrelated to all classes visually, and the essences will be dropped with the system so they won't be carried and displayed in future expansions. The same goes with corruption, however corruption have no cosmetic reward whatsoever and are only a power increase, so I don't see the relation.

Cosmetics are a symptom, not the cause of bad gameplay.

Islands and Warfronts are worthless systems designed around cosmetics, they sacrificed good gameplay with Azerite Armor in order to create those. Imagine how good Shadowlands can be now that it removed the Warlords Era gimmicks in favor of things like Torghast that actually have good gameplay and cosemtics involved. It's a win win.

Wildhammer Dwarves however, are the only customization option that I can honestly say i'd prefer over good gameplay. All hail the master Clan.

[Dracullus]

Realistic: Ion will talk about max level content on Alpha beside Torghast.

Optimistic: He will announce Beta this month.

Pessimistic: Recap about stuff we already know.

And revealing release date 5-6 months before launch doesn't make sense for me.

Islands and Warfronts are worthless systems designed around cosmetics, they sacrificed good gameplay with Azerite Armor in order to create those.

So in your world same people work in art and design teams and Ion just swap resources between them?

[Jamie081]

Islands and Warfronts are worthless systems designed around cosmetics, they sacrificed good gameplay with Azerite Armor in order to create those. Imagine how good Shadowlands can be now that things like Torghast actually have good gameplay and cosemtics involved. It's a win win.

Where are you getting the idea that islands and warfronts were designed around the cosmetics?

Blizzard designed warfronts around the Warcraft RTS fantasy, not the cosmetics. They were bound to be awful gameplay because there was no PvP involved and it was against braindead AI.

Islands were designed to showcase new AI tech and randomised content to encourage adventure. They were bound to be awful because at the foundation they were just AOE trash grinds.

Cosmetics aren't the reason why islands and warfronts were bad, they were just straight up badly designed from the beginning. Again, azerite armour has no cosmetic element so azerite gear being badly designed is definitely not because of cosmetics.

[therumblings]

Cosmetics aren't the reason why islands and warfronts were bad, they were just straight up badly designed from the beginning.

Agreed.

The cosmetics play a big part in replayability for them though, and seeing them put any effort into either of them makes me sad. Imagine what Azerite Armor could have been if they scrapped those two in favor of that system.

So in your world same people work in art and design teams and Ion just swap resources between them?

So the art team designed the gameplay of Islands and Warfronts in your world? The point is Warfronts and Islands were a waste of resources, and only ended up being cosmetic dumps.

Again, azerite armour has no cosmetic element so azerite gear being badly designed is definitely not because of cosmetics.

>Dump resources into gameplay of a terrible system that only ends up being replayed for cosmetics
>Barely do anything on Azerite Armor and putting it in beta last second

Allied Races were the one good BFA feature, until Shadowlands retroactively tarnished it.

[Jamie081]

Agreed.

The cosmetics play a big part in replayability for them though, and seeing them put any effort into either of them makes me sad. Imagine what Azerite Armor could have been if they scrapped those two in favor of that system.

I don't think azerite armour was salvagable really. Legion artifacts worked because you never had to replace them and regrind out the traits that you had already unlocked. You had relics to upgrade and that was a smooth progression of your artifact's ilvl.

Azerite armour required you to upgrade the azerite armour, then regrind the traits with azerite power (before Drazar'alor raid), then you needed to be lucky enough to have the right traits for your class/spec. A lot of the traits are also generic and only 1 row (before Drazar'alor) had anything to do with your class/spec.

>Dump resources into gameplay of a terrible system that only ends up being replayed for cosmetics
>Barely do anything on Azerite Armor and putting it in beta last second

The cosmetics can be removed and islands and warfronts will be in the same state. They're not the reason for straight-up bad systems.

[therumblings]

I don't think azerite armour was salvagable really. Legion artifacts worked because you never had to replace them and regrind out the traits that you had already unlocked. You had relics to upgrade and that was a smooth progression of your artifact's ilvl.

For sure. I don't like talking about Azerite Armor at this point usually because the system was dead on arrival and they probably couldn't save it even with an extra few months of testing. It's just unfortunate to see an expansion with tons of features that all end up being bad, which is why I love Shadowlands' feature list.

Blizzard just needs to take the Shadowlands' approach without muddying the waters turning it into the WoD approach.

[Jamie081]

For sure. I don't like talking about Azerite Armor at this point usually because the system was dead on arrival and they probably couldn't save it even with an extra few months of testing. It's just unfortunate to see an expansion with tons of features that all end up being bad, which is why I love Shadowlands' feature list.

Shadowlands looks exciting for sure, and it has lots of cosmetics like Legion did. BFA was insanely lackluster outside of the heritage sets and some of the first warfront sets.