Bring torghast timers back! Sort of...

[Polybius]

well yeah,thats my point,so unless you do torghast alone,it will also be gogogogo,people want things done fast,big surprise

Nay. People who group with strangers* want things done fast. It cuts down time in LFR and it's required in Mythic+. This gogogo mentality started with WotLK facerolls when content became easier and AoE classes outshined others.

[AwkwardSquirtle]

well yeah,thats my point,so unless you do torghast alone,it will also be gogogogo,people want things done fast,big surprise

...no, it's not about other players. Islands have a timer:the opposing team collecting azerite. If you go too slowly, you don't collect enough Azerite and you lose. It's gogogo because there's a timer on it.

[healerxd]

No thank you. If you want a timed mode, make it one that is timed from the start like M+.

Did you even read. I'm not suggesting every floor - but you could have 1 floor every run or so you see that IS timed, and it tells you before you start. Torghast having varied and interesting floors is what will increase it's replayability.

We need more variance in the kind of floors we see. Just kill mobs, kill mobs, kill mobs is really boring. We need more interesting puzzle based, time based, movement based floors.

[Eapoe]

I don’t mind timed content, but I know a vocal group on mmo-c really do. I wouldn’t one a compromise though.
Compromise: timer exists but has no bearing on how hard it gets or kicks you out for hitting the time limit. Instead, clearing faster gives you faster access to cosmetics. For example, not meeting time limit still gives you completion and rewards; however, any cosmetics that you unlock over time (such as mounts or xmog) gets unlocked slightly faster. So, if it takes normally 3-4 weeks to unlock something, like an armor set, then clearing in a faster time will unlock the same appearance in 1-2 weeks instead.

[healerxd]

I don’t mind timed content, but I know a vocal group on mmo-c really do. I wouldn’t one a compromise though.
Compromise: timer exists but has no bearing on how hard it gets or kicks you out for hitting the time limit. Instead, clearing faster gives you faster access to cosmetics. For example, not meeting time limit still gives you completion and rewards; however, any cosmetics that you unlock over time (such as mounts or xmog) gets unlocked slightly faster. So, if it takes normally 3-4 weeks to unlock something, like an armor set, then clearing in a faster time will unlock the same appearance in 1-2 weeks instead.

But why does it have to be all or nothing. Why can't there be some floors (very few - maybe like 1 max 2 per run) that do have a hard time. Especially when you reach the higher levels.

[Balbuto]

Timers provide exciting moments of rush and challenge.

Timers also make groups favour dps oriented healing classes/specs... sad holy priest praying for no timers in Torghast

[Kathranis]

There's been mechanics like this in some dungeons in the past. Remember the rescue quest in Shattered Halls? Or Zul'Aman?
But as soon as there's additional, gameplay-affecting rewards locked behind a timer, people will adapt this "go-go-go" mentality. They will cut corners where they can, exploit, demand everyone use invis pots, chain pull recklessly, exclude certain classes and specs due to them not having the right support abilities etc.

I was mainly thinking of the roguelike game Dead Cells, which supports speedrunning tactics (avoiding combat and exploration) with timed gates that award cells and gold if you get to them quickly enough, as an alternate way to acquire weapons/abilities during your run.

[Ryuushima]

But why does it have to be all or nothing. Why can't there be some floors (very few - maybe like 1 max 2 per run) that do have a hard time. Especially when you reach the higher levels.

Because we don't want to. The way you are suggesting it makes it sound like this : A girl does not want to sleep with you, but you go on and on about how she doesn't hav to sleep with you every day just once a week.

That simply makes no sense, when people don't want something they don't want something

[healerxd]

Timers also make groups favour dps oriented healing classes/specs... sad holy priest praying for no timers in Torghast

did you finish reading? the rest of the post said...

these should probably be on floors that don't even have mobs - but just movement based/trap based challenge floors

- - - Updated - - -

Because we don't want to. The way you are suggesting it makes it sound like this : A girl does not want to sleep with you, but you go on and on about how she doesn't hav to sleep with you every day just once a week.

That simply makes no sense, when people don't want something they don't want something

Or you think of each floor like a new girl.

And each floor being a little different in the challenges they pose is more interesting than having the same thing over and over again. Regardless of timers or not. Having floors with more contrasting environments, different challenges, interesting puzzles could be really cool. Some variety would be great. Right now it's all a little similar. Collect powers, kill mobs.

[Cosmic Janitor]

There is enough timer content in WoW already.

[Zyky]

wait what?what does a forced gogogogog have to do with islands?nothing in islands forced you to gogogogogo,i guess the pvp one kinda but its just human nature to want to get stuff done fast,sure the first few times you wanna explore and take it in,but eventualy it becomes repetivive and you wanna get it done,

Islands in nature are go go go or you fail. They were advertised as an exploration feature, but if you explored you'd lose to a team of bots. Just because something is repetitive that doesn't mean that you should forego the intended implementation of a system. If they do that again with Torghast it's going to fail as a system, which will be detrimental to the game as it's literally the only activity being added with the expansion(and no Covenants don't count because it isn't an activity).

[Dommie530]

Timed content is pretty bad content when it awards rewards that will power up your character, when it would only imply for cosmetics i dont care.

[Artelia]

I always hate timers in any game and i play wow for relax.... so timers are big no. Anywhere.

[Nzx]

I think to overcome this mentality M+ needs a secondary path to those same rewards. Something like "if you mess up the timer, clearing 90% of mob packs will still get you the big chest and a higher level key". Sure it'll take way longer and won't land you on the leaderboard, but at least you won't need counseling after wiping once. They could place some out-of-the way, super difficult mobs which timer groups can just skip but clear groups will have to beat somehow.

What? If you can't beat the timer then you're already doing a dungeon that's too difficult for you. Why on earth would you need a higher key? This is an objectively garbage idea because they'd have to gut higher key rewards as the regular weekly strategy would be to push as high as possible by waiting 10 minutes and lusting on every single pull. The timer on pretty much every dungeon in the game at this point is so relaxed that you can pull one pack at a time and let your healer drink every second pull and still make it, so if you're completing dungeons out of time at this point the only reason is that you're trying to push too high.

[Dommie530]

What? If you can't beat the timer then you're already doing a dungeon that's too difficult for you. Why on earth would you need a higher key? This is an objectively garbage idea because they'd have to gut higher key rewards as the regular weekly strategy would be to push as high as possible by waiting 10 minutes and lusting on every single pull. The timer on pretty much every dungeon in the game at this point is so relaxed that you can pull one pack at a time and let your healer drink every second pull and still make it, so if you're completing dungeons out of time at this point the only reason is that you're trying to push too high.

Let mythic+ only reward cosmetics, only then it is an actual good feature, as of now. Its pretty terrible at best.

[Vilendor]

The main reason M+ became an elitist toxic cesspool is the timer. It made me quit doing even the weekly chest (as a feral i get declined from anything above 5+ anyway)

Fuck timers

[Athulua]

People are thinking too much in black and white categories. Timer - bad, no timer - good. There's more to it than just those 2 options.

Timers could be a good challenge for certain floors.
Not a global time restriction present on ALL floors. That sucks and a lot of people complained about it (with a good reason)
But they could design a floor similar to Troves scenario from MOP. There would be hardly any fighting in there, but there would be traps, puzzles, special patrol mobs and a time limit on the floor. No one complained about that 5 minute timer in this scenario, in fact this one is remembered as one of the best single-player pieces of content ever developed in WoW.

Or a floor with additional rewards based on completion pace, as suggested above (akin to Zul'Aman or Shattered Halls runs)

If these floors appear only sometimes throughout the run they would be excellent addition to the system, changing your gameplay approach for a while. I don't want to end up in 16 floors of kill kill kill kill every week. Heroic visions are like that and after 50 runs they're boring as fuck.

[owbu]

Since timers are such a hot topic, I dont think compromises are the way to go here. We have m+ and, to a lesser extent, raiding as timed endgame contents already. If Torghast is supposed to be the untimed alternative, then just dont add timers to it. Thats a clear and uncomplicated design. Everyone will know where to go. No bad suprises.

[TEHPALLYTANK]

My opinion on the subject: No timers, they're the worst form of tuning to exist. Timers literally ruin the fun of a game for me, even in games where I'm not at any risk of hitting the time-limit. The existence of the timer itself just stresses me out, it turns it from a fun activity into a chore or a job. Dead Cells was used as an example, and that is an example of a game that is entirely ruined for me due to the timers. I enjoyed it for a grand total of about 5 hours, then it stopped being fun because I had to stop exploring the game itself if I wanted to meet the timer.

I don't mind insane or infinite scaling of difficulty, just as long as it isn't time-based. It is one of the reasons I love the Souls games, the complete absence of timers makes the rest of the game all the more enjoyable. Timers just strip away your freedom to explore and your ability to enjoy the game at the pace you want to play at. The lack of timers doesn't take anything away from a game, you can speed-run any game by changing your playstyle.

@Athulua: That scenario was one of only two things introduced in MoP I hated. I just stopped doing it after 3 weeks, because it was ruining my ability to enjoy the game The other thing of course was CM dungeons, I did them on only 1 character because the prep work was too much of a pain in the ass and the damn timer meant the activity wasn't remotely fun. CMs weren't remotely hard, they were just damn tedious.

Berserk timers on bosses are literally the only timers I'm good with, cause I don't find raid encounters that last more than 8 minutes to be very enjoyable when progressing.

[Cosmic Janitor]

Since timers are such a hot topic, I dont think compromises are the way to go here. We have m+ and, to a lesser extent, raiding as timed endgame contents already. If Torghast is supposed to be the untimed alternative, then just dont add timers to it. Thats a clear and uncomplicated design. Everyone will know where to go. No bad suprises.

Individual encounters in Torghast already have similar timers to raids, namely enrage or borderline berserk mechanics.