Did people expect WoW to keep growing forever or something?

[Michael Jackson]

Every time there's talk of WoW's massive playerbase decline since Cataclysm days, people pop up with:

- THE reason wow lost players
- THIS is the main reason wow lost players
- IF BLIZZARD HADN'T DONE THIS...

Are people really that oblivious to the amount of MMOs from late 2000s onward which do some or many things better than WoW, and even if they don't gather 12 million players at any one time, all these games combined will chip away at WoW's stagnant gameplay model? For free?

Were you really expecting 24 million players active by the time WoD dropped, doing the same exhausted formula of level -> grind gear -> raid or PVP, in an ever-breaking array of PVP balance patches and a story that's all over the place?

All this for a sub fee to top it all off, when ESO and TOR offer 20x better stories and writing for free?

WoW is pretty much a Korean MMO, all you do is collect shit, and do nothing with it. This has been WoW's formula since pre-BC, when people would just stand in the middle of Stormwind or IF in their epic gear having everyone marvel at their dedication to farm gold and pots every night of the week to afford raiding.

How were people expecting this formula to retain and keep gathering millions of players? WoW's losing players because it gets boring after every expansion release, the writing after Warcraft 3 remains sub-par and the gameplay is either too repetitive or too frustrating, and other games offer much better alternatives, and chip away at its playerbase little by little. Mostly for free or a small one time purchase.

[Speedlance]

Most people play wow because they feel bound to the game. And no, there isnt anything out there that is better. Different but not better. Wow raids has set a standard that nobody can keep up with. Most others are still at end of tbc early wrath level of complexity.

[deenman]

tehnicaly the decline started with wotlk,thats when the growth flatlined

- - - Updated - - -

Most people play wow because they feel bound to the game. And no, there isnt anything out there that is better. Different but not better. Wow raids has set a standard that nobody can keep up with. Most others are still at end of tbc early wrath level of complexity.

well not everyone judges an mmo based on raiding,its all subjective,some people prefer different things,like how eso feels and plays,or mmo's with extreme class diversity and customization,some people used to rly like full loot pvp mmo's,before wow there werent that many mmo's that focused on raiding,heck wow almost didnt launch with pvp even posible,and an actual pvp system didnt come until later

wilstard was an mmo that could be very much compared to wow and even did better in some aspects,but the devs mind blowing actions doomed it

[Michael Jackson]

tehnicaly the decline started with wotlk,thats when the growth flatlined

And I quote myself:
Every time there's talk of WoW's massive playerbase decline since Cataclysm days, people pop up with

[Ghostile]

Every time there's talk of WoW's massive playerbase decline since Cataclysm days, people pop up with:

- THE reason wow lost players
- THIS is the main reason wow lost players
- IF BLIZZARD HADN'T DONE THIS...

Are people really that oblivious to the amount of MMOs from late 2000s onward which do some or many things better than WoW, and even if they don't gather 12 million players at any one time, all these games combined will chip away at WoW's stagnant gameplay model? For free?

Were you really expecting 24 million players active by the time WoD dropped, doing the same exhausted formula of level -> grind gear -> raid or PVP, in an ever-breaking array of PVP balance patches and a story that's all over the place?

All this for a sub fee to top it all off, when ESO and TOR offer 20x better stories and writing for free?

WoW is pretty much a Korean MMO, all you do is collect shit, and do nothing with it. This has been WoW's formula since pre-BC, when people would just stand in the middle of Stormwind or IF in their epic gear having everyone marvel at their dedication to farm gold and pots every night of the week to afford raiding.

How were people expecting this formula to retain and keep gathering millions of players? WoW's losing players because it gets boring after every expansion release, the writing after Warcraft 3 remains sub-par and the gameplay is either too repetitive or too frustrating, and other games offer much better alternatives, and chip away at its playerbase little by little. Mostly for free or a small one time purchase.

The fun thing about the 12m subs is that it was nowhere near stable number. By the time of cata 100 million accounts were created, that means nearly 90% of the people who tried wow, quit. So the 12 million subs was most likely a rolling number where the minority were stable subscribers and the majority were passing through because MMOs were "in"

[deenman]

The fun thing about the 12m subs is that it was nowhere near stable number. By the time of cata 100 million accounts were created, that means nearly 90% of the people who tried wow, quit. So the 12 million subs was most likely a rolling number where the minority were stable subscribers and the majority were passing through because MMOs were "in"

well didnt the 100m count the trials also?if it did then the 100m means nothing just marginal interest in wow,by that logic we should count all private servers,wow proly had 1bilion people atleast try those

[Michael Jackson]

I think it's important to remember, even if we assume WoW is currently at it's lowest sub count (which we have no way of knowing) - other MMO's are still behind. WoW didn't lose subs because WoW declined, WoW lost subs becuase MMO's declined. People less and less want to spend 5+ hours a day to be competitive on a game, and what's popular changes all the time.

Well that's my point, you don't have to spend 5 hours a day in TOR and ESO for example to enjoy their stories, you just hop in and play.

In ESO you can do massive player PVP battles that dwarf Wintergrasp by far, from like lvl 10, and you won't even be useless, you get scaled and you can buy siege engines and get a ton of gold and gear rewards just for playing like a few hours a week. And it's FUN.

Competitiveness? I don't think many people care about competitiveness, they just want to have fun. Competitiveness is for the youth and their esport fads.

[Ghostile]

well didnt the 100m count the trials also?if it did then the 100m means nothing just marginal interest in wow,by that logic we should count all private servers,wow proly had 1bilion people atleast try those

Trials or not, we don't know whether they used to count active trials for their subs.
Unfortunately that 100 million accounts created is the only metric we have, which doesn't change the fact wow didn't manage to keep new players during the "MMO hype" period.

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In ESO you can do massive player PVP battles that dwarf Wintergrasp by far, from like lvl 10, and you won't even be useless, you get scaled and you can buy siege engines and get a ton of gold and gear rewards just for playing like a few hours a week. And it's FUN.

My ESO pvp experience is pretty much just getting oneshot by spellcasters.

[The Emperor]

Let me get this straight, you're saying WoW's playerbase declined because of outside forces, not because Blizzards actions/inaction?

[Shaetha]

Well that's my point, you don't have to spend 5 hours a day in TOR and ESO for example to enjoy their stories, you just hop in and play.

In ESO you can do massive player PVP battles that dwarf Wintergrasp by far, from like lvl 10, and you won't even be useless, you get scaled and you can buy siege engines and get a ton of gold and gear rewards just for playing like a few hours a week. And it's FUN.

Competitiveness? I don't think many people care about competitiveness, they just want to have fun. Competitiveness is for the youth and their esport fads.

You can just hop in and play WoW too. To claim you can't and simultaneously dismiss competition, which is the only aspect you can't jump in and play kinda makes it look like grasping at straws.

[Orby]

Well there's this and the fact that WoW will never reach that height again mainly due to the fact that the MMO genre (while having some nice alternatives to WoW) are not as hot as they used to be during the mid 2000's. Now day it all about them battle royales and shooters.

WoW came along at the right place at the right time, it was lightening in a bottle.

And with more variety now its going to be harder for any MMO to be that popular (combined with the lack of interest of the genre itself), long gone are the days of the 'dead WoW killers' games, where MMO's would try and rival WoW and then immediately die, instead of today where games like FFXIV and ESO, just say 'fuck it lots not compete let's just do our own thing' sure they will never be as popular as WoW and still may not be as big as WoW but a good alternative is what they can hope to remain as.

With that said I still think WOW is the best MMO out there I have tried so mnay MMO's during WoW's lifespan but their world always fails to capture me, it sucks that its not as popular but I always expected WoW to reach it's ceiling eventually. I would be surprised if WoW's current subs are over 2.5 million. But since we cannot see the subs anymore we'll have to just speculate.

[Ghostile]

Let me get this straight, you're saying WoW's playerbase declined because of outside forces, not because Blizzards actions/inaction?

For the same reason the other MMOs didn't grow, but the genre as a whole shrunk.
MMOs went out of style soon after WOTLK and the genre lost players.

[kamuimac]

Most people play wow because they feel bound to the game. And no, there isnt anything out there that is better. Different but not better. Wow raids has set a standard that nobody can keep up with. Most others are still at end of tbc early wrath level of complexity.

most people who play wow hardcore way do it because its only way they have to escape hard reality of real life

normal people play 4-5 hours a week and are satisfied with that , then they are bored they take breaks , when activity A,B ,C is not fun they ignore it.

and first and foremost 99,9% of players never visit any forums only play game

[Nnyco]

People keep forgetting that wow was the fortnite of 2006-2008~.

[Vilendor]

No. But big updates/patches should bring back millions to play it for a few months at least. Or see when everyone fall for the marketing of Warlord of Draenor and Actizzard reported 9 million active users again.

These days BfA barely can hold a million player (according to unofficial sources) in the west, with expansion boss just released.

[kamuimac]

For the same reason the other MMOs didn't grow, but the genre as a whole shrunk.
MMOs went out of style soon after WOTLK and the genre lost players.

mmos when out of style when generation born between 1980-1990 finished their universities and focus on life instead computer games.

there was a point in time - before FB became popular when mmorpgs were platform connecting lonely teenagers/young adoults - but this died now that everyone is accustomed to internet.

- - - Updated - - -

No. But big updates/patches should bring back millions to play it for a few months at least. Or see when everyone fall for the marketing of Warlord of Draenor and Actizzard reported 9 million active users again.

These days BfA barely can hold a million player (according to unofficial sources) in the west, with expansion boss just released.

milions moved on - and are much more interested in investments in their lives instead passing hundreds of hours monthly into games.

its really simple math - peopel who were 15 around time wow came out are 31 now and games are not even on their radar of interest on scale bigger then "wasting " few hours a week every couple of months just to chill .

[Ghostile]

These days BfA barely can hold a million player (according to unofficial sources) in the west, with expansion boss just released.

Tbf, "Dude trust me" is the type of source I wouldn't even quote in a non-sarcastic way.

[callipygoustp]

If it wasn't for the absolute disappointment that WoD was, I often wonder just how much more popular the game would be today.

...oh, and lets not forget about the shit show that 4.3 was.

Blizzard screwed the pooch in a big way two different times and it cost them. Given that, I stopped believing WoW would "grow" forever.

[Gaidax]

I think it's important to remember, even if we assume WoW is currently at it's lowest sub count (which we have no way of knowing) - other MMO's are still behind. WoW didn't lose subs because WoW declined, WoW lost subs becuase MMO's declined. People less and less want to spend 5+ hours a day to be competitive on a game, and what's popular changes all the time.

This is a major point people keep missing (or conveniently shove aside when it does not suit their favorite narrative).

Ultimately MMOs in 2k20 are a niche, they used to be all the rage, but at some point back in early 2010s a newer generation of games started popping up where developers were "hmm, you know what? you can just log in, have instant fun without any grind or mundane crap and log out".

Then gamers started figuring out that maybe you don't need to do 10 boars quests to push XP forward to max level and maybe the whole max level and powering up phase can be done in 15 minutes as opposed to 15 days/weeks. Some of the old guard might call this "entitled", but frankly it's just a case of respecting your time and common sense, frankly.

So yes, more and more people realize the above and ultimately MMO crowd declines as a whole, because unlike in 2004 - there are now a lot of alternatives available outside MMOs that can give same or similar feel, but at 1/10 of the mundane BS.

[Zantera]

This is one of the main things I find retarded when people discuss 'the decline' of the game. Whether you think the game has gotten worse or better, that's almost irrelevant. It's a very time demanding game and if you genuinely believe that everyone who started playing the game in vanilla/TBC/wotlk did so with the intention of continuing playing until the day they die - then that's pretty naive.