[Megathread] Final Fantasy XIV

[Nasuuna]

Going through SHB properly now, Holminster Switch is such an incredibly sad dungeon with proper story context.

Oh gosh. I spent hours trying to find very simple information such as "Samurai stat priority 5.0". I eventually had to join the r/FFXIV Discord, get directed to the Balance discord, then spend hours combing through chat (if you ask in chat they tell you to "read the resources channel", which tells you jack all), to then get redirected to a big pastebin, which THEN directed my to a tools site... that is very confusing and unintuitive to use. Can't get a simple straight answer. It was only until a couple weeks ago that they finally stickied near the top of SAM resources channel "skill speed > direct hit = crit > determination", and even to see that you still have to jump through all of the hoops listed above.

WoW is so blessed. You can just do a 2 second google search for "arms warrior stat priority" and at the top of the page it says "Haste > Crit > Mastery > Versatility > Strength", and right below that are the Icy Veins and WoWhead guides. FFXIV has no such thing.

WoW has had 30x the players ffxiv has had.

Also, everything is front page in the Sam Resources channel, under the Resources tree. Rotations, stat prio, BiS, ect

Also looks like its about a 40dps (mind you you are doing 21k dps) difference between the SKS tiers, so id just go crit so dancers love you, and you can share gear with monk

[Xilurm]

I disagree that anything related to FFXIV beside the game itself can be labelled "nice things". Everything from the web sites to the portal app is a mess.

The lodestone isn't imo. Can only compare it to the WoW main site though. It is basically what the WoW website used to be. A lot more community focused, now the WoW site looks like a website for a movie or a single player game, and frankly, I think that's garbage.

[Granyala]

Oh good lord yes. The method for applying expansions especially stands out to me as a sore point. I had to go from the main website, to the Square Enix store, buy the game, then go from there to apply a code on a different website, which gave me a code to apply to the Mogstation. It was an absolute disaster all in all.

The fact that most of the official sources of information tend to be in-house is also a problem too. There's nothing that really fills the same space as something like WoWhead does, not only in terms of showcasing items and models, but there's also class and content guides too.

Hmm I got a code from steam, punched that into MogStation and was done with it.

Dunno about class guides, I found most classes to be pretty straight forward to play, so I never really bothered looking for one. I believe Summoners have their own website, it's relatively similar to WoW in that regard.

https://garlandtools.org/db/#item/23149
This is probably as close as you are going to get to WoWhead.
https://en.ff14angler.com/?spot=1030...t=0&cmd=search
Everything regarding fishing is here.
https://ffxivteamcraft.com/simulator/27717/33329
Crafting simulator & information
https://www.ffxivclock.com/#/
Data on where to gather rare / timed materials.

There is a lot of fan made stuff out there but it is not as consolidated as it is for WoW.

- - - Updated - - -

Oh gosh. I spent hours trying to find very simple information such as "Samurai stat priority 5.0".

That's because the impact of BiS vs non BiS in this game is pretty small due to secondary stats being relatively weak compared to WoW and due to a lack of options when it comes to gear: you basically have 2 items of choice per slot, else you sacrifice item level and main stat which will render any delta between optimal/nonoptimal secondary stats moot rather quickly. Can only speak for White Mage, but for us it's roughly: 1 Weapon damage = 10 main stat = 50 secondary stat.

The savage raiding community is small to begin with and content is more balanced around doing the dance correctly than squeezing every little ounce of performance out of your class.

To be frank: it is not possible to gimp a character by using the wrong secondary stats as it is in WoW. That's probably why you find less information and theorycrafting done.

[StrawberryZebra]

WoW is so blessed. You can just do a 2 second google search for "arms warrior stat priority" and at the top of the page it says "Haste > Crit > Mastery > Versatility > Strength", and right below that are the Icy Veins and WoWhead guides. FFXIV has no such thing.

WoW also has a lot of extra resources and tools, such as Raidbots or Bloodmallet, that will help you break down your specific character, assess the gear in your bags, and optimise your Azerite traits, gear, talents and so on. They're all a google search away and if you don't like or distrust a particular site or tool, there are alternatives out there you can use.

That content is all community reviewed, and is constantly updated and amended to reflect patches and changes. It's all built on a solid foundation of mathematical modeling and even provides the evidence to back it up.

Most FF14 guides I can find with a Google search leads me to a YouTube guide, usually one that's out of date. It's hard to judge if it's been posted by an expert or just a random YouTuber, and finding evidence to support or corraborate what the video presents is often hard.

I've certainly never seen much in the way of math or evidence to really support most stats either, nothing at all really beyond generic statements like "Stack crit because it's good for Adlo".

I get that FF14 isn't as performance driven as WoW is, but there's a noticable lack of up to date player resources. Quite often you're directed to The Balance Discord and have to trawl through it yourself to find what you're looking for.

Please don't blindly meld or even use the individual gear pieces like that. If you really want BIS gear, you won't meld skill speed

I just crammed all the Spell Speed and Crit into my Scholars gear I could. Despite there being a lengthy 69 page guide on the Job, it never bothered to justify it's stat priorites beyond just "muh feels" and "clipping". So I just winged it.

It clearly worked, I'm machine gunning out Broils to such an extreme degree that I'm perfectly capable of maintaining a solid 9.5k DPS across an expert boss - Which is, ironically, more than most of the actual DPS I run into seem to be doing. Go figure.

Hmm I got a code from steam, punched that into MogStation and was done with it.

I do regret not buying it from Steam - However it's too late to retrospectively add it the way you can with other games. Which is a shame, but it is what it is.

[The Casualty]

I think the difficulty in finding stat weights and sim sheets and stuff is because people are looking for resources the same way that they might have for WOW. I used to use Elitistjerks about 8-10 years ago (I have no clue if that's still a thing), but that type of community is here on FFXIV too, but primarily on discord. I recommend using https://discord.gg/thebalanceffxiv

Every class has rotation guides - typically with multiple optional openers depending on the fight and skill/spell speed break points. They also have BIS/sub-BIS sheets and stat priorities for classes, and optional variants depending on the patch/gear cycle. Many of them have google docs/sheets that multiple people keep up to date so even if the original author stops playing you still have an up to date resource.

There are even guides for DOL/DOH and links to the teamcraft website or docs/sheets with information.

[Granyala]

I do regret not buying it from Steam - However it's too late to retrospectively add it the way you can with other games. Which is a shame, but it is what it is.

I never understood SE's dumb platform locking. What difference does it make to them where you buy the game?
I bought WoW expansion all over the place and never had any trouble.

[KrayZ33]

It clearly worked, I'm machine gunning out Broils to such an extreme degree that I'm perfectly capable of maintaining a solid 9.5k DPS across an expert boss - Which is, ironically, more than most of the actual DPS I run into seem to be doing. Go figure.

There is nothing wrong doing whatever, just don't do it blindly if you want BIS stuff, just because someone mentioned that "stat priority"
As mentioned earlier, secondary stats are "whatever" most of the time. But in some cases, additional or lack of skillspeed/spellspeed will mess up your rotation.

[Nasuuna]

WoW also has a lot of extra resources and tools, such as Raidbots or Bloodmallet, that will help you break down your specific character, assess the gear in your bags, and optimise your Azerite traits, gear, talents and so on. They're all a google search away and if you don't like or distrust a particular site or tool, there are alternatives out there you can use.

That content is all community reviewed, and is constantly updated and amended to reflect patches and changes. It's all built on a solid foundation of mathematical modeling and even provides the evidence to back it up.

Most FF14 guides I can find with a Google search leads me to a YouTube guide, usually one that's out of date. It's hard to judge if it's been posted by an expert or just a random YouTuber, and finding evidence to support or corraborate what the video presents is often hard.

I've certainly never seen much in the way of math or evidence to really support most stats either, nothing at all really beyond generic statements like "Stack crit because it's good for Adlo".

I get that FF14 isn't as performance driven as WoW is, but there's a noticable lack of up to date player resources. Quite often you're directed to The Balance Discord and have to trawl through it yourself to find what you're looking for.



I just crammed all the Spell Speed and Crit into my Scholars gear I could. Despite there being a lengthy 69 page guide on the Job, it never bothered to justify it's stat priorites beyond just "muh feels" and "clipping". So I just winged it.

It clearly worked, I'm machine gunning out Broils to such an extreme degree that I'm perfectly capable of maintaining a solid 9.5k DPS across an expert boss - Which is, ironically, more than most of the actual DPS I run into seem to be doing. Go figure.



I do regret not buying it from Steam - However it's too late to retrospectively add it the way you can with other games. Which is a shame, but it is what it is.

If you haven't, I'd drop at least a single Direct Hit materia in to enable you to DH, but ya, its all been mathed out with ACT. 2ndary stats are so close it barely matters, but still has a perception of mattering.

I personally like a little extra Spell Speed to sneak in extra glares when I'm still learning fights, but have since remelded to crit > DH

[Talrath]

I did it! I finished A Realm Reborn! It took a week of nonstop playing, with my only breaks being eating and sleeping, but I did it! 4 days of leveling and 3 days of 2.1-2.5.

Heavensward awaits!

Aaah, now the real fun starts. HW and so on were really good But shadowbringers.... Wauw, that one was amazing. Also some new things you can do during something. But I'm not going to spoil the fun of a new feature.

Have.... To.... Hold.... In.... <painful noises>

[StrawberryZebra]

I think the difficulty in finding stat weights and sim sheets and stuff is because people are looking for resources the same way that they might have for WOW.

The big difference is that if I google something like "WoW Assassination Rogue Guide" I'll get pages and pages full of results ranging from sites like WoWhead, Icy Veins and Method.gg. These are all updated regularly and give a detailed breakdown of useful information.

If I do the same for FF14 and search for something like "FF14 Machinist Guide" I end up with things like the official site which simply lists the skills, memes on reddit and out of date guides content from previous itterations of the Job.

Let's be honest, most players are going to google for what they want specifically and expect it to be in the first couple of results.

I personally like a little extra Spell Speed to sneak in extra glares when I'm still learning fights, but have since remelded to crit > DH

I put Spell Speed in everything that would take it, Crit in anything that wouldn't, and DH in those few pieces that wouldn't accept either. I've never really ran into Mana issues with Scholar, so I figured I might as well make that count by squeezing out as many casts as possible.

That might change when I try do ES8 and Extreme Cinder Drift this weekend, but so far I've had more MP than I know what to do with.

I never understood SE's dumb platform locking. What difference does it make to them where you buy the game?

I don't get it either. Squenix just gotta Squenix I guess.

As an aside, good lord is the community in this game fragile. Jumped on the first random FC that threw me an invite in Limsa and made a joke that I was going to bring a couple of Black Mages round to the FC house later tonight when everyone's in bed. Not a tasteful joke perhaps, but nothing that's going to upset people. Or so I thought. Managed to last total of maybe 2 hours before being shown the door.

In my defense though, they did say they were a "mature" guild. I suppose that's an easy mistake to make

[Nasuuna]

The big difference is that if I google something like "WoW Assassination Rogue Guide" I'll get pages and pages full of results ranging from sites like WoWhead, Icy Veins and Method.gg. These are all updated regularly and give a detailed breakdown of useful information.

If I do the same for FF14 and search for something like "FF14 Machinist Guide" I end up with things like the official site which simply lists the skills, memes on reddit and out of date guides content from previous itterations of the Job.

Let's be honest, most players are going to google for what they want specifically and expect it to be in the first couple of results.




I put Spell Speed in everything that would take it, Crit in anything that wouldn't, and DH in those few pieces that wouldn't accept either. I've never really ran into Mana issues with Scholar, so I figured I might as well make that count by squeezing out as many casts as possible.

That might change when I try do ES8 and Extreme Cinder Drift this weekend, but so far I've had more MP than I know what to do with.



I don't get it either. Squenix just gotta Squenix I guess.

As an aside, good lord is the community in this game fragile. Jumped on the first random FC that threw me an invite in Limsa and made a joke that I was going to bring a couple of Black Mages round to the FC house later tonight when everyone's in bed. Not a tasteful joke perhaps, but nothing that's going to upset people. Or so I thought. Managed to last total of maybe 2 hours before being shown the door.

In my defense though, they did say they were a "mature" guild. I suppose that's an easy mistake to make

ya, I was clearing everything with base piety on whm, and only my shiva weapon giving me piety on SCH, only part that I encountered mana issues was 2nd wyrms lament

[Kaelwryn]

I never understood SE's dumb platform locking. What difference does it make to them where you buy the game?
I bought WoW expansion all over the place and never had any trouble.

AFAIK for the steam thing, its on steam since they take a cut of payment, plus regional pricing. I may be wrong however. *shrug*

[Granyala]

As an aside, good lord is the community in this game fragile. Jumped on the first random FC that threw me an invite in Limsa and made a joke that I was going to bring a couple of Black Mages round to the FC house later tonight when everyone's in bed. Not a tasteful joke perhaps, but nothing that's going to upset people. Or so I thought. Managed to last total of maybe 2 hours before being shown the door.

In my defense though, they did say they were a "mature" guild. I suppose that's an easy mistake to make

I don't get it. Where is the joke part?

[Delever]

I don't get it. Where is the joke part?

I dont get the joke either but doesnt seem like something to be shown the door for. And the community of this game is indeed quite fragile.

[KrayZ33]

I dont get the joke either but doesnt seem like something to be shown the door for. And the community of this game is indeed quite fragile.

It's a fragile community indeed, but I don't think that this is the proof. Maybe they just thought he was weird, the joke was that bad after all.

[Granyala]

Maybe they just thought he was weird, the joke was that bad after all.

I'm pretty sure I'd thought he was weird as well, due to him to make a complete arse of himself, behaving like some immature kiddo.

- - - Updated - - -

AFAIK for the steam thing, its on steam since they take a cut of payment, plus regional pricing. I may be wrong however. *shrug*

Yeah locking people into the platform is probably a part of the deal they made with steam. Given the price of the addon, I seriously doubt steam gets much of a cut, so it's more about "customer retention" to them. Considering they only host the 1xx MB installer and nothing else, it's basically a free lunch for them.

[Thestrawman]

-snip-

Why are we blaming a company for something that's completely on the community?

[StrawberryZebra]

And the community of this game is indeed quite fragile.

Indeed. I get that it was just some random FC I joined exclusively because they just gave me a wordless invite while I was checking out the market board in Limsa, but it was obviously not the right place for me. Far too many ego's to bruise and personality clashes waiting to happen.

The big difference though is that in most other games if people have a problem it gets talked about. Not always productively, but it does get brought up and issues are aired out one way or the other. I know to some people that's considered a "toxic" environment, where people are openly disagreeing with others and it may occasionally spill over into an argument. But, ultimately, those issues are solved, even if it is with both people walking away from it.

FF14's community seems to be more passive aggressive. Where they'll either bottle up issues and pretend they don't exist, or else ignore them and hope they go away. It seems like a far more toxic environment for me to be in where issues are ignored and pushed aside becasue players are averse to having those discussions and bringing those problems out into the open.

Any form of criticism, however constructive or mild, has players rushing to put out the fires. I don't know, I just feel as though FF14 is a place where people are constantly afraid to voice their opinions for fear of them being shouted over by people going "La la la everythings perfect I can't hear you!". That culture of silence and closing ranks gives the impression that it's a more friendly community, but thats really nothing more than a veneer.

I don't get it. Where is the joke part?

That wasn't the joke word for word, just a basic gyst of it. It fit within the context of the discussion at the time but ultimately it was....Not a very classy joke.

But I get the feeling you may be expecting a little too much from a joke that bombed so hard it got someone Gkicked.

[KrayZ33]

But I get the feeling you may be expecting a little too much from a joke that bombed so hard it got someone Gkicked.

To be fair, you were hardly "Gkicked". To them, you were just some random dude they've known a dungeon worth of time with.
Pretty sure it has been more or less a "first impression" thingy.

[Granyala]

Any form of criticism, however constructive or mild, has players rushing to put out the fires. I don't know, I just feel as though FF14 is a place where people are constantly afraid to voice their opinions for fear of them being shouted over by people going "La la la everythings perfect I can't hear you!". That culture of silence and closing ranks gives the impression that it's a more friendly community, but thats really nothing more than a veneer.

Yop, pretty much. In this case we are in agreement.

Yes I expected more of the joke. Sth like... being offensive, perverted, funny, sarcastic, mean... anything. Except for a sentence that does not make any sense at all.