[Megathread] Path of Exile

[Onikaroshi]

[B]

Limited use crafting options based on the seeds you plant, sounds super RNG as hell.

I mean, if you look up RNG in the dictionary there's just a side note to look up ARPG. ARPGs are all about RNG.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

[B]

Limited use crafting options based on the seeds you plant, sounds super RNG as hell.

I mean it sounds way better then trying to craft with actual currency so it seems like a pretty good system to me.

[Nasuuna]

[B]

Limited use crafting options based on the seeds you plant, sounds super RNG as hell.

I have never played a game with as much rng as POE

It balances itself out with trade, just buy the seeds you want

[Onikaroshi]

I have never played a game with as much rng as POE

It balances itself out with trade, just buy the seeds you want

D3 at launch was pretty bad, all to support the RMA.

[LilSaihah]

Limited use crafting options based on the seeds you plant, sounds super RNG as hell.

It actually reduces the RNG by a lot.
Each seed has a fixed variety of enchants and you can choose which one to use, and you can use more dice.

It's like playing Orks in Warhammer. Yeah you need a 5 or a 6 to hit something with your shootyboiz, but you are throwing what can be a literal bucket of dice.

[Marrilaife]

Limited use crafting options based on the seeds you plant, sounds super RNG as hell.

Well afaik the type of the seed determines what pool of crafts it will draw from, so for example if you play phys melee you'd want to plant phys and melee type of seeds and just sell the ones that give stuff for spells or minions or elemental mods etc.

It sounds less rng than goddamn fossils that somehow everyone is in love with. They don't even guarantee the type of mod they relate to just say "more modifiers of x type".

Since nerf to multimod I don't think we have any better way to put more mods of our liking on an item. Conqueror's orbs are very expensive and even those have random pools of mods, and many of them don't even share a theme so you could literally get a useless mod to your type of build.

[kail]

[B]

Limited use crafting options based on the seeds you plant, sounds super RNG as hell.

If it gives more control over exalt slamming, I'm all for it.

- - - Updated - - -

D3 at launch was pretty bad, all to support the RMA.

The AH alone also hindered the game. I recalled beating it in Torment or w/e the insane end difficulty was and it was all with gear bought via gold. I knew at that point before the smart loot implementation that the game was a simple gold collecting stimulator.

RMAH's issue was it simply implements P2W but between the players.

[Kelimbror]

How many new crafting options does Harvest introduce?
There are over 45 crafting categories, resulting in over 250 different possible craft effects.

Uhh....nope. I'm over it.

How do I get Tier 2 seeds?
Monsters that emerge from Tier 1 plants have a chance to drop Tier 2 seeds when slain. The same principle applies for Tier 3 and Tier 4 seeds.

Oh get the fuck right out.

[BeepBoo]

I mean, if you look up RNG in the dictionary there's just a side note to look up ARPG. ARPGs are all about RNG.

Why do people keep doing this for every genre of games? Fucking EVERY THREAD. It gets annoying...

"OH WOW IS AN MMORPG, THAT MEANS SLOW PACED COMBAT HURR DURR"
"OH ANY GAME THAT HAS RPG IN THE NAME IMPLIES FOCUS ON PROGRESSION AND NOT GAMEPLAY HURR DURR"
"OH ANY GAME THAT IS AN ARPG HAS TO HAVE 10 LAYERS OF LOOT RNG HURR DURR"

It gets fucking old. Like.. is it actually impossible for these people to imagine a new and unique game that diverges from the typical tropes of a pretty well defined genre? Isn't that how new genres even get formed? Seriously. W.T.F.

No, the only game style that necessitates casino loot are gacha games, because that is their entire model: be slot machines and sell you MTX to get what you want out of said slot machine.

POE doesn't need to be a gacha game. POE's problem isn't loot or lack of progression.

[Onikaroshi]

Why do people keep doing this for every genre of games? Fucking EVERY THREAD. It gets annoying...

"OH WOW IS AN MMORPG, THAT MEANS SLOW PACED COMBAT HURR DURR"
"OH ANY GAME THAT HAS RPG IN THE NAME IMPLIES FOCUS ON PROGRESSION AND NOT GAMEPLAY HURR DURR"
"OH ANY GAME THAT IS AN ARPG HAS TO HAVE 10 LAYERS OF LOOT RNG HURR DURR"

It gets fucking old. Like.. is it actually impossible for these people to imagine a new and unique game that diverges from the typical tropes of a pretty well defined genre? Isn't that how new genres even get formed? Seriously. W.T.F.

No, the only game style that necessitates casino loot are gacha games, because that is their entire model: be slot machines and sell you MTX to get what you want out of said slot machine.

POE doesn't need to be a gacha game. POE's problem isn't loot or lack of progression.

No need to be so aggressive, jesus christ.

And I like all the layers of RNG in PoE, keeps it interesting and gives you good reasons to trade. Remove too much RNG and you get D3, a very shallow game when it comes to loot.

[BeepBoo]

No need to be so aggressive, jesus christ.

Sorry, just gets tiresome seeing a bunch of people constantly engage in appeal-to-tradition fallacies...

And I like all the layers of RNG in PoE, keeps it interesting and gives you good reasons to trade. Remove too much RNG and you get D3, a very shallow game when it comes to loot.

IDK how d3 loot works, but I prefer being able to target my loot so I can get that top tier build eventually without needing to just endlessly do the same shit forever or having to farm currency (like... 100 ex for some items? forreal? how do normal plebs get that?) to buy my items from other players. I expect to be able to get full-build and full clear everything the game has to offer every season without having to work my ass off to the Nth degree.

This isn't even touching on build discrepancy of dumb stuff like cyclone or meme builds that break servers versus other things that people might like. The beauty of PoE should be its customization, but the difference between meta and non-meta is so incredible, and the game is so tuned for meta (lol 1 shots everywhere unless you dump 80% of your levels into %hp or ES...) that it becomes near impossible to beat without it. This is only exacerbated by the inability to target items properly.

[Onikaroshi]

Sorry, just gets tiresome seeing a bunch of people constantly engage in appeal-to-tradition fallacies...



IDK how d3 loot works, but I prefer being able to target my loot so I can get that top tier build eventually without needing to just endlessly do the same shit forever or having to farm currency (like... 100 ex for some items? forreal? how do normal plebs get that?) to buy my items from other players. I expect to be able to get full-build and full clear everything the game has to offer every season without having to work my ass off to the Nth degree.

This isn't even touching on build discrepancy of dumb stuff like cyclone or meme builds that break servers versus other things that people might like. The beauty of PoE should be its customization, but the difference between meta and non-meta is so incredible, and the game is so tuned for meta (lol 1 shots everywhere unless you dump 80% of your levels into %hp or ES...) that it becomes near impossible to beat without it. This is only exacerbated by the inability to target items properly.

In D3 you basically only get loot for your class and legendaries drop like candy. You can basically gear any build out within a day.

PoE's problem is balance honestly, why do you have some builds that measure damage in shaper's per second and others that can't even do basic maps? GGG is terrible with even trying to balance anything. If more builds were viable you could make use of what you get more often instead of having so many trash uniques.

[Edge-]

The beauty of PoE should be its customization, but the difference between meta and non-meta is so incredible, and the game is so tuned for meta (lol 1 shots everywhere unless you dump 80% of your levels into %hp or ES...) that it becomes near impossible to beat without it. This is only exacerbated by the inability to target items properly.

This so much. There was a great post kinda bout this on the reddit recently and it echoed a lot of sentiments I've been arguing over with my brother (who is one of the "YEAH HARDCORE!" style players) - The game is more or less designed for about the top 5% of players tops, and more realistically around the top 1%.

https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/2757540



Look at that chart from the Metamorph league, and look at the challenge completion.

You can clear 12 pretty much by getting to mapping, purely by playing the game without ever needing to actually specifically go for a challenge. And not even 25% of players achieved that. Note, this chart is for players, not characters.

Get halfway through and you're at just shy of 6% getting 24 challenges, which does require a bit of effort but is still very doable if you pop open the challenge chart.

1% for 36 challenges.

And that's apparently in part due to some tweaks GGG made from the Blight league specifically to make them more attainable.

The overwhelming majority of the people who play the game are casual. Those are the folks that drop off 1-2 months into the league but come back to play the next one.

GGG can very, very easily reduce some of the insane layered RNG, pointless obtuseness, and work to not actively break the game each league so top players can create hilarious builds and streams in order to achieve a higher "floor" without actively dropping the "ceiling" too much.

Because the way they've been designing, and continue to design, is around the playerbase that calculates their characters DPS in "shapers per second", not just "millions", where the only way to counter them is aggressive one-shot mechanics everywhere that limit build variety, and aggressively limit it if you're not a hardcore player with access to tons of currency or want to have some hopes of farming currency before the 1% inflation kicks in.

20ex builds may be cheap and easy for streamers who have optimized maps and routes so that they're averaging 15-20ex an hour minimum, but for the overwhelming majority of players, they're lucky if their characters are gonna be walking around in gear worth that much by mid/end of the league.

I still love the idea of build variety, and every league I've played I've always tried to play something "new" rather than just whatever the meta is or whatever worked well last league. Most of the time it works well...to a point. But I'll go from my cyclone facebreaker gladiator in Metamorph who ended up trivializing pretty much the whole game to a strong HoP guardian (not herald stacker) this league who is still strong as hell but runs into tons of issues trying to deal with the glut of on-death mechanics and one shots. Sure, I could play another facebreaker cyclone glad and have a much easier time of it, but if I wanted to play the same character every league I'd be playing D3 : P

[SirCowdog]

Those are the folks that drop off 1-2 months into the league but come back to play the next one.

This is me, and I by no means consider myself a casual at any kind of gaming. But I'll be damned if I'm going to spend 300+ hours farming chaos/exalts on a single league just to get a workable build that can progress in a meaningful way, just to have it all be pointless in the following league.

I'm also the type of player who likes to explore many different aspects of mechanics and builds, which only exacerbates the problem.

I don' t know what the fix is, but tuning the game almost exclusively around the upper 5% of streamers, who literally play POE as a job, is not a great situation for everyone else.

[xenogear3]

D3 at launch was pretty bad, all to support the RMA.

D3 at launch is super hard to force people buy gear from RMAH.
I sold two blue crappy weapons for $20 each. (The speed % is a confusing stats.)

Even they are crappy.
One week later, Blizzard nerfed that two weapons.

Later on, there is an invincible wizard bug.
I farmed for 10 hours and got NOTHING good.

Overall, I had fun.

[Onikaroshi]

D3 at launch is super hard to force people buy gear from RMAH.
I sold two blue crappy weapons for $20 each. (The speed % is a confusing stats.)

Even they are crappy.
One week later, Blizzard nerfed that two weapons.

Later on, there is an invincible wizard bug.
I farmed for 10 hours and got NOTHING good.

Overall, I had fun.

Yea lol, it was a bit excessive. Think they took it too much in the other direction though. Now the game is just... sterile.

Which is why I'm wary of PoE putting in too many QoL and other changes, it's so easy to swing TOO far.

[Edge-]

Which is why I'm wary of PoE putting in too many QoL and other changes, it's so easy to swing TOO far.

I mean, they'd have to go pretty extreme to even start swinging back the other way. As is they have tons of room for QoL improvements and reducing some of the needless complexity without compromising the core integrity of the game or getting anywhere close to what D3 was at launch, or is now after all the improvements.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

Yea lol, it was a bit excessive. Think they took it too much in the other direction though. Now the game is just... sterile.

Which is why I'm wary of PoE putting in too many QoL and other changes, it's so easy to swing TOO far.

The RMAH IMO wasn't good at all but Blizzard does have a habbit of overnerfing things(Hi Wow whats up) So I'd say if POE has anything to learn, its don't nerf so excessively.

[Gorsameth]

No need to be so aggressive, jesus christ.

And I like all the layers of RNG in PoE, keeps it interesting and gives you good reasons to trade. Remove too much RNG and you get D3, a very shallow game when it comes to loot.

I don't think you've played D3 in a while because yes the game showers you in legendaries and 'build defining items' but then you need to farm for those same items but Ancient (a rare version with upgraded stats) aswell. And if you've done that you can hunt for an even better, even more rare version called Primal Ancient which has even more stats.

Its no different then PoE where 99% of drops are actually useless and your just praying to RNjesus for the good stuff.

[BeepBoo]

This is me, and I by no means consider myself a casual at any kind of gaming. But I'll be damned if I'm going to spend 300+ hours farming chaos/exalts on a single league just to get a workable build that can progress in a meaningful way, just to have it all be pointless in the following league.

This is me as well.

I mean, they'd have to go pretty extreme to even start swinging back the other way. As is they have tons of room for QoL improvements and reducing some of the needless complexity without compromising the core integrity of the game or getting anywhere close to what D3 was at launch, or is now after all the improvements.

I think one thing that could help poe go in the correct direction would just be cleaning up the needlessly convoluted systems, and clearing up the map clutter so you could actually SEE things telegraphed amidst the explosion of colors and effects flying around so you could properly dodge those mechanics. As it is, there are so many things that don't LOOK like one shots that murder you and it doesn't matter even if they have tells or "don't stand in fire" things because there are also 100 other enemies on-screen and you can't possibly see or register all of what is going on.