Sylvanas Is Evil, Just Admit It

[Evilfish]

Check this thread again, please. I saw at least 7 people who rather want to keep kissing Sylvanas feet and be murdered by her then staying alive with a reasonable Horde.

A reasonable Horde is boring. I'm not sure why you people trying to "fix" WoW?

Also a reasonable Horde means kissing the Alliance's feet. So either way the Horde is kissing feet.

[huth]

Check this thread again, please. I saw at least 7 people who rather want to keep kissing Sylvanas feet and be murdered by her then staying alive with a reasonable Horde.

They're also not "the Horde". Especially not after BfA.

[Spiffums]

Until stated otherwise in-game, I will use my perception to judge if something is a mild annoyance or a premeditated slaughter.
Sylvanas has used the blight to completely kill all life in various zones and sub-areas. The scourge did a similar thing with Lordaeron. There's virtually no difference apart from Sylvanas being a faction leader (?), but no one dreamed of taking the scourge to court lol.

But you're force real world perceptions onto the game world of Azeroth. Garry mana bombed a city and nothing happened to him because of that act.

- - - Updated - - -

The book "Warcrimes" would like a word. It very clearly establishes a precedent of a Warchief being condemned for their criminal actions during war.

Condemned but it doesn't spell out what is and isn't allowed in war.......and just because ally doesn't like it doesn't mean it's a "war crime". The german's didn't like Shotguns in WW1 but we didn't stop using them because they QQ'd about it.

[Odintdk]

Yeah, the Horde still has much more alliance asskissing to do before they are considered "neutral".

Then again the forums and Golden have induced the idea that disagreeing with the alliance in any way, is an act of evil. So there you have it. Horde is evil cause the alliance thinks it is and that is how good and evil is measured in WoW.

A lot of us Horde players choose to focus on playing the game, rather than spending as much time arguing/complaining in forums (though we do still do both), and it's quite evident from the amount of anti Horde circlejerking, echo chamber threads that happen here, that it's mostly Alliance dominated forums (where in reality there are more horde players overall), to the point where it's pointless to honestly bother reasoning with most of them.

I wouldn't worry much what the Alliance playerbase chooses to label as "Evil", it's irrelevant to the how the story handles Horde anyways.

[Raisei]

Condemned but it doesn't spell out what is and isn't allowed in war.......and just because ally doesn't like it doesn't mean it's a "war crime". The german's didn't like Shotguns in WW1 but we didn't stop using them because they QQ'd about it.

People without deep psychological issues abhor genocide, that is pretty much universal. You decide if your idea of the Horde is part of that group. I would just add that the trial of Garrosh was attended by BOTH factions and both were intent on seeing him punished. So it was not just that "ally doesn't like it". The only one that only cared about her own personal issues with him was *big surprise* Sylvanas.

[Terongor]

Well it depends on your view.
Evil is pretty absolute and if individual isn't doing bad stuff for sake of bad stuff the individual isn't. Moral philosphy even has a common school which states if it is useful or useful for the individual who does it, then it is good.

[ledgx]

I do not know why people care. Like her or don't. You are meaningless. Why people just can't enjoy and live the story. What if Sylvanas is just where she needs to be in the story. Many whined about some character roles and their deaths, but just like told, their stories fit in the World of Warcraft world and allow blizzard to make more of it.

[Powerogue]

She isn't evil, she serves evil, she ultimately believes her ends justify the means.

Pretty sure we still called Arthas evil when he wanted to zombify Azeroth so he could fend off the Legion that he broke off from.

[Lord Pebbleton]

But you're force real world perceptions onto the game world of Azeroth. Garry mana bombed a city and nothing happened to him because of that act.

I admit that my perceptions come for the real world (and it could not be otherwise), but as I stated, Azeroth already had the scourge and I would say everyone was at least mildly annoyed by it. So even by azerothians' perceptions another rampaging undead commander seeking to wage war against everything is bad. I am not sure what your point is.

Also I hated Garrosh deeply for the mana bomb and I think he escaped the due punishment, but I can't really do anything about that.

[maccajoe]

Everyone is the hero of their own story.
FYI shes basically been "Evil" since she was resurrected, shes just gained more negative Karma along the way. People act like her character did some 180 or something. People have it in their minds she was like Anduin before bfa.

[Jastall]

you have no idea how much I hate our Mary Sue characters.




I partially disagree.

Illidan as an anti-hero was during WotA trilogy (he wanted to be the hero and tried to beat Legion via "betraying" them).

WC3 Illidan only cared about himself (and Tyrande but that's another story) and power.

trilogy came afterwards so if you compare WC3, WotA trilogy, TBC and Legion Illidan then all of them are different.

The difference between WC3 Illidan and WotA Illidan is still a lot lesser than the one between WC3 Illidan and TBC's, if you ask me. I'm not saying he was an example of a consistent character, oh no, he's up there with Jaina as a character whose motives and behavior are ping-ponged according to what "works" for the story at the time. But at least they eventually settled on a version of the character, even if the way to achieve this was torturous and included quite a number of clumsy retcons.

They never did that for Sylvanas and we're supposed to believe that the person who was shocked at being named Warchief, seemingly respected Vol'jin (somehow) and went to the bat in Stormheim in part to bolster her people is the same as the edgy anime villain who thinks that no lives matter and has been playing 6D chess all along to kill death or whatever silly shit ends up being her goal this time around.

[DemonHunter18]

The difference between WC3 Illidan and WotA Illidan is still a lot lesser than the one between WC3 Illidan and TBC's, if you ask me. I'm not saying he was an example of a consistent character, oh no, he's up there with Jaina as a character whose motives and behavior are ping-ponged according to what "works" for the story at the time. But at least they eventually settled on a version of the character, even if the way to achieve this was torturous and included quite a number of clumsy retcons.

Illidan lost a lot of his charm when they turned him into a pure edgelord and meme and he lost that craveness for power that was one of the main traits of him.

that was the biggest flaw when it came to his resurrection.

I agree with Jaina.

WoW screwed over a lot of characters.

this is what happens when you gave major books to noobs who never heard of Warcraft or writers who don't care about it.

they literally said they retcon stuff unintentionally which means they make up stuff on the spot without looking back.

They never did that for Sylvanas and we're supposed to believe that the person who was shocked at being named Warchief, seemingly respected Vol'jin (somehow) and went to the bat in Stormheim in part to bolster her people is the same as the edgy anime villain who thinks that no lives matter and has been playing 6D chess all along to kill death or whatever silly shit ends up being her goal this time around.

she has a Curse of Contradiction like Zeref from Fairy Tail.

pretty much what I said above

they literally said they retcon stuff unintentionally which means they make up stuff on the spot without looking back.

it's how Blizzard does things.

[Kithelle]

Honestly I doubt Sylvanas will even play that big of a role in Shadowlands. Very clearly she is not the main villain, and she obviously cannot go back to the protagonist side after what she did. She will either die as a secondary threat or try to redeem herself at the last moment and die anyway.

Much like Garrosh in WoD, I cant see Sylvanas having that much of a spotlight in this expansion she started.

She's been in the spotlight for years, doubt that is gonna suddenly stop now...

[Varodoc]

She's been in the spotlight for years, doubt that is gonna suddenly stop now...

It will stop precisely because she has been in the spotlight for years. Just like it stopped for Garrosh, just like it stopped for Gul'dan.

And it wouldn't even happen suddenly. Her spotlight was in BfA, in which we learn her true goals and her real nature was revealed to Alliance and Horde alike. Shadowlands will deal with her fall, and even that will be a secondary event, as she is merely a minor villain. The Jailer will be the main villain and central driving force of the expansion, as Blizzard stated.

Sylvanas' days in the spotlight are numbered at this point.

[Jastall]

Illidan lost a lot of his charm when they turned him into a pure edgelord and meme and he lost that craveness for power that was one of the main traits of him.

that was the biggest flaw when it came to his resurrection.

I agree with Jaina.

WoW screwed over a lot of characters.

this is what happens when you gave major books to noobs who never heard of Warcraft or writers who don't care about it.

they literally said they retcon stuff unintentionally which means they make up stuff on the spot without looking back.



she has a Curse of Contradiction like Zeref from Fairy Tail.

pretty much what I said above




it's how Blizzard does things.

Indeed. Garrosh was also a victim of such writing, such as the infamous incident where one of the game's lead writers didn't know about the character's actual story direction in Cataclysm and wrote him as fairly sympathetic in Stonetalon when it was, apparently, already decided he was gonna be Orc Hitler. How such a thing gets past the layers of employees required to translate the script to the game (artists, voice actors, animators, quest designers, etc.) I have no idea, but consistency and good direction are quite rare in WoW's writing.

Not that Starcraft itself did things better usually, everything around and around Kerrigan in SC2 was a trainwreck from start to finish, especially said finish. But Alarak was cool from his first scene in LotV to his last one in Covert Ops; remains to be seen if they manhandle him in SC3 10 years from now or something.

[DemonHunter18]

Indeed. Garrosh was also a victim of such writing, such as the infamous incident where one of the game's lead writers didn't know about the character's actual story direction in Cataclysm and wrote him as fairly sympathetic in Stonetalon when it was, apparently, already decided he was gonna be Orc Hitler. How such a thing gets past the layers of employees required to translate the script to the game (artists, voice actors, animators, quest designers, etc.) I have no idea, but consistency and good direction are quite rare in WoW's writing.

don't forget Maiev.

that horrid Wolfheart and then in Legion Welcome back, Big Sis and She cares about Malfurion and Tyrande.

Not that Starcraft itself did things better usually, everything around and around Kerrigan in SC2 was a trainwreck from start to finish, especially said finish. But Alarak was cool from his first scene in LotV to his last one in Covert Ops; remains to be seen if they manhandle him in SC3 10 years from now or something.

Diablo isn't that much better either from what I heard.

it also had its share of retcons as well.

[Kithelle]

It will stop precisely because she has been in the spotlight for years. Just like it stopped for Garrosh, just like it stopped for Gul'dan.

And it wouldn't even happen suddenly. Her spotlight was in BfA, in which we learn her true goals and her real nature was revealed to Alliance and Horde alike. Shadowlands will deal with her fall, and even that will be a secondary event, as she is merely a minor villain. The Jailer will be the main villain and central driving force of the expansion, as Blizzard stated.

Sylvanas' days in the spotlight are numbered at this point.

Difference between them is they don't have the following she has...doesn't have the fans she has. Aren't hundreds of pictures of Gary in a banana hammock...

[Varodoc]

Difference between them is they don't have the following she has...doesn't have the fans she has. Aren't hundreds of pictures of Gary in a banana hammock...

That argument never made sense. Arthas to this day remains the most popular Warcraft character ever, yet he died in the second expansion. Popularity alone does not grant you plot armor.

[Jastall]

don't forget Maiev.

that horrid Wolfheart and then in Legion Welcome back, Big Sis and She cares about Malfurion and Tyrande.


Diablo isn't that much better either from what I heard.

it also had its share of retcons as well.

Diablo 3's writing was pretty bad. The so-called Lord of Lies has a disguise so pathetic that your character figures it out with no player involvement necessary. The "best general in Hell" constantly calls to inform you of his plans in advance again and again. It's all pretty clownish, and I don't know the lore well enough to talk about the retcons but I'm sure there were some.

[De Lupe]

Either she's evil, or it's the Thanos scenario, but executed much more poorly. Yes, his actions will kill trillions of trillions throughout the universe, but he's not doing it out of hatred, or revenge, or the shits and giggles. He's doing it because he views it as the only solution to the lorn-term survival of the universe. He's an antagonist certainly, but he's not evil. He's a man who found a pragmatic solution to a problem and has the will to follow through with that solution.

Sylvanas is objectively a villain. Even if she does it for a greater good, we see nothing of that greater good in her actions. She is evil.