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  1. #241
    The Unstoppable Force Gaidax's Avatar
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    I think MMO-C is the best proof that subscription should be a thing in WoW.

  2. #242
    like spammers, cheaters and dickheads aren't already a problem. The day wow goes free to play is the instant i uninstall and never look back

  3. #243
    The Lightbringer Minikin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dakhath View Post
    If you think the community is shit now, just imagine would it would be if the sub went away.
    This. It would be abysmal.
    Blood Elves were based on a STRONG request from a poll of Asian players where many remarked on the Horde side that they and their girlfriends wanted a non-creepy femme race to play (Source)

  4. #244
    People have made the point before that it keeps toxic players away. I tend to agree with that.

  5. #245
    Quote Originally Posted by Djaye View Post
    keeps the bots out? HAHAHAHA that is equally naive and funny at the same time
    I wonder if you are able to comprehend the irony of this statement.
    The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts.

  6. #246
    Quote Originally Posted by Luciferstwin View Post
    This pretty much. F2P breeds trolls, hate and nothing good.

    - - - Updated - - -



    New world is not a true MMO.
    No idea wtf blue protocol is.
    And Ashes of Creation will have a sub, as well as a buy price.

    - - - Updated - - -




    Those are cumulative numbers, not currently playing btw. If we are going by cumulative numbers, wow would have much, much more.

    Will AoC have a sub? Can you give me your font?

    BP is a new MMO from Bandai/Namco

    Are good promisses to 2020.

  7. #247
    The Insane rhorle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kugarm View Post
    Will AoC have a sub? Can you give me your font? BP is a new MMO from Bandai/Namco Are good promisses to 2020.
    Check out the shop on the AoC website. They are selling the game with alpha/beta access in different packages including one that is $375 that includes 9 months of game time with a $135 value. That is a $15 a month of game time. It also has $125 in cash shop currency. Even if it was free to play it is clear they are having a subscription as part of the core model
    "Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
    You know a community is bad when moderators lock a thread because "...this isnt the place to talk about it either seeing as it will get trolled..."

  8. #248
    I've never felt as though the game itself ever had any type of pay to win item for sale or whatever. The sub we pay, in my own opinion, has been the preventing force behind this.

  9. #249
    Quote Originally Posted by kugarm View Post
    Have you ever think if the subscription model just gone away?

    It's a old system, new MMOs don't need this mercenary model. We have gw2, same generation, never have subscription (many others: BDO, ESO, SWTOR). The new generation is buy-to-play or free-to-play.

    In my opinion, blizzard must remove the pay-to-play (we already buy the game, is it reallly needs pay a "rent"?)
    Subscription models are miles beyond the not-free-to-play ones. There's no comparison.

    Of course, WoW isn't helped by the fact that they, too, have pay-for "prestige" items.

    If you don't earn them in game, other people just roll their eyes when they see you riding around on or dressed in something you just threw money at.

  10. #250
    Mechagnome
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    Thanks to the WoW Token everything can be earned in Game, and trust me the cash shop is nowhere near as bad as ESO or Guild Wars 2, starting with Bag slots (ESO and GW2), to one sub only crafting bag (Sub only!) the huge account of money for DLC and chapters... there is nothing free about having fun in those two games!


    Quote Originally Posted by Dunkelzahn View Post
    Subscription models are miles beyond the not-free-to-play ones. There's no comparison.

    Of course, WoW isn't helped by the fact that they, too, have pay-for "prestige" items.

    If you don't earn them in game, other people just roll their eyes when they see you riding around on or dressed in something you just threw money at.

  11. #251
    Dreadlord Kyux's Avatar
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    No, if anything I'd rather they upped the sub by a few dollars and hired a bunch more people.

    I think a lot of people would happily pay 50c more per month to hire one person whose fulltime job was adding RPG, or immersive elements into the game. Or another 50c to constantly develop new customisation options.

    No sub - lower quality product.
    Quote Originally Posted by Akhlys View Post
    Once upon a time, boats were full of leaks. Now, our leaks are full of boats.

  12. #252
    fuck f2p. absolutely no .thank the fuck the game has sub therefore blizz cannot open an item shop thatdirectly sells mythic level stuff for 99 dollars.

  13. #253
    The Insane rhorle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dunkelzahn View Post
    Of course, WoW isn't helped by the fact that they, too, have pay-for "prestige" items. If you don't earn them in game, other people just roll their eyes when they see you riding around on or dressed in something you just threw money at.
    And that is just dumb. Everything is earned with real money because of the subscription. And most things in-game can be bought with boosts and tokens so there is no "prestige" difference.
    "Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
    You know a community is bad when moderators lock a thread because "...this isnt the place to talk about it either seeing as it will get trolled..."

  14. #254
    Quote Originally Posted by kaminaris View Post
    Lets not pretend paying 3rd party boosters is any different than paying blizzard. So this particular thing makes no difference.

    But depending on your definition of pay2win, wow either has always been pay2win or never been pay2win and it would unlikely to change with pay-with-time model.

    The problem with subscription model is that entry fee is high. Demo to 20 level is not enough to even experience 0.1% of what wow got to offer.
    Also it might be high price in certain countries.

    The plus is that you most likely won't have kids with no money. Because bots and spammers are already here so I doubt that would change much.

    At some point it is bound to happen to move to "not-free" to play model. That or wow gets shut down.
    While I agree with your point of view... my definition of pay-to-win is when you are able to buy !performance enhancing! items that dont actually exist, and the act of buying them "creates them".... on the other hand, buying boosts and items off the AH, you still need to have ppl selling an actual item drop, or willing/skilled enough to boost you even if you do not contribute during the boost run

  15. #255
    I am Murloc! Kuja's Avatar
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    If the queues are already an issue, I can't imagine how much worse it will be if wow went F2P. There would probably be 10x the amount of players as there is now, so they would need to open a load of new servers, which is something they try to avoid if possible.

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  16. #256
    Quote Originally Posted by Kuja View Post
    If the queues are already an issue, I can't imagine how much worse it will be if wow went F2P. There would probably be 10x the amount of players as there is now, so they would need to open a load of new servers, which is something they try to avoid if possible.
    Queues are high has nothing to do with size of playerbase.

    For PvE there is simply no reason at all to go LFR and this is pretty ok, especially this far in patch. Once LFR was first released queues were relatively short.
    Same goes for HC dungeons, no reason at all, and again, not bad because it doesn't force players that far outgear the content to run easiest content.

    For PvP it's simply faction imbalance. Make a mode FFA where you are jus being clumped with other people regardless of faction and queue times literally disappear.

  17. #257
    Nah, i would not like WoW turned to F2P model. Especially when it's led by a greedy company like Activision-Blizzard.

    You wouldn't pay for subscription, sure. But you would need a premium account to play this game without losing your mind.
    Example premium account features, routinely encountered in other MMO-s:

    -Queue priority. Non-premium users suffer long waiting times. Given that we can already experience long waits on large servers, on F2P it would be nearly impossible to play without a PACC
    -Limited bag space. Imagine that you only have your backpack and one bag slot in bank and inventory. Premium account users get full access equivalent to today capacity. They could even go beyond that and implement POE model, in which you can buy additonal bag slots on top of regular Premium membership, eg extending your inventory to 10 bag slots for a price (priced like $5 per bag slot)
    -Significantly increased leveling times, heirlooms locked behind premium membership. Paid XP boost to max remains, also paid XP potions could pop up. Eg $5 for +100%XP for 24h potion.
    -Paid reputation boosts, return of time-consuming dungeon attunements, but unlike TBC, with paid items available to completely skip them
    -Queueing systems locked behind premium membership. You still could enter LFR or LFG with premade groups and walk there... yeah, right.
    -Addon support locked behind premium membership. Non premium account just wouldn't load them, you press enter world and you see generic UI with all addons turned off.

    Technically you could still see all the content in the game without paying anything. But that would be made significantly harder and more inconvinient. Sure, it's not a big deal if you are completely new to the game and just want to try it out without having to overcome a large financial entry barrier, but once you cap and start playing endgame it would be unbearably annoying to not pay for PACC and paid features. You'd end up paying more money for this game than you currently do. That's how they are designed in the first place - draw you in, hook you up and then milk you hard.

  18. #258
    Quote Originally Posted by Athulua View Post
    Nah, i would not like WoW turned to F2P model. Especially when it's led by a greedy company like Activision-Blizzard.
    Tbf, what Blizzard does with wow atm is the opposite of greedy.
    They could adjust the sub price to how currency has changed over the years (sub would be $21 ish) but instead they made an optional shop for those who want to pay more.

  19. #259
    Elemental Lord
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Jackson View Post
    Back in MOP they were saying the team was 300 and wanted to keep growing to deliver yearly expansions.....
    Then at some point they said the number had scaled down to under 200....(after wod i think)
    It would help if you could cite where you're pulling your numbers from.

    Anyhow, according to Gamepedia, in 2014, Blizzard divided it's development staff into teams of 100-300 people. Which means WoW had a development team consisting of between 100-300 people (likely being on the bigger end of that scale being one of their bigger IPs.

    This picture here was taken in 2017 and is of the entire development team. Which by my estimation puts the team somewhere in the region of 200-250 people.

    You'll notice that I italicised the word development. The development team isn't everyone who works on WoW. Nor does it include the company executive. If I were to guess, I'd say that sales, marketing, finance, legal, customer support are probably at least double, probably even more, the number of developers (hence why Blizzard has 5K employees).

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Jackson View Post
    Even if everyone gets paid 4k/month (which i highly doubt), 4000 x 200 = 800000 -> almost half leftover
    Firstly, the cost of employing someone is a lot more than just their salary. There is rent, furniture, utilities, computer equipment, software licences etc etc etc.

    Secondly, your estimate of what they earn is massive off.

    https://www.payscale.com/research/US...ainment/Salary
    https://www.zippia.com/activision-bl...rs-155/salary/

    On average they are earning around 90K. Even their lowliest employees are earning close to 60K. And you were guessing 48K as the upper end?


    Even if you're being extremely conservative, there is no way that WoW costs less than around $50M a year in salaries alone. Once you add other expenses it's likely well of $100M.

    So to get it to survive on less than $20M of income would require them to chop between 60 and 80% of their staff. It would also mean a similar reduction in their ability to deliver content.

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Jackson View Post
    And this is all IF the game only had 100k players left. And we're not counting the base game price, and store transactions.
    If you start to consider what the real numbers are (instead of making up fantastical numbers that fit your narrative), it makes a lot of sense that Blizzard need to use the shop to boost their revenue. If they didn't, they'd either need to cut costs (which means less development) or tell their shareholders to accept less profits (which means no more WoW).

  20. #260
    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    Check out the shop on the AoC website. They are selling the game with alpha/beta access in different packages including one that is $375 that includes 9 months of game time with a $135 value. That is a $15 a month of game time. It also has $125 in cash shop currency. Even if it was free to play it is clear they are having a subscription as part of the core model
    This is sad. A "indie" with sub is a fail.

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