Slice and Dice = just another weakaura on your screen.

[niztheundead87]

There are people here that believe that pressing a button makes you a nuclear physics expert.

SL is boring design that is plain and simple.

The only real way to fix rtb is to make it so you get always 2 3 or 4 buffs never 1 or 5 and balance the buffs around .this way there won't be anymore oh shit one buff let's reroll. Also outlaw mastery should affect rtb the current mastery is the old version of the sword passive from vanilla.

[shoegazing]

There are people here that believe that pressing a button makes you a nuclear physics expert.

There are also people here who believe it's totally fine that we have roughly half the number of finishers that we used to have, and that all finishers should be frontloaded damage.

Does SnD make me a nuclear physics expert? No, although unrelated I do have some knowledge on the topic. Does SnD make me feel like I'm playing my Rogue again and not some garbage nu-WoW class? Also no.... there is a lot more that needs to change but at least it is a step towards recognizing my character again.

[niztheundead87]

There are also people here who believe it's totally fine that we have roughly half the number of finishers that we used to have, and that all finishers should be frontloaded damage.

Does SnD make me a nuclear physics expert? No, although unrelated I do have some knowledge on the topic. Does SnD make me feel like I'm playing my Rogue again and not some garbage nu-WoW class? Also no.... there is a lot more that needs to change but at least it is a step towards recognizing my character again.

Giving back buttons for the sake of giving stuff back is sugar coating the problems of classes.

The reason why snd was removed in the first place was it was boring af. And people were crying for years to remove it.

What they need to do is give more spec specific abilities such as cannonball barrage or make killing spree baseline again for outlaw. Spec identity is the key.

Poisons for outlaw is not needed.

[shoegazing]

Giving back buttons for the sake of giving stuff back is sugar coating the problems of classes.

The reason why snd was removed in the first place was it was boring af. And people were crying for years to remove it.

What they need to do is give more spec specific abilities such as cannonball barrage or make killing spree baseline again for outlaw. Spec identity is the key.

Poisons for outlaw is not needed.

Spec identity can get fucked.

I've played a Rogue for 15 years.

Not retarded drooling shadowblade, not yahtzee pirate, I play a WARCRAFT ROGUE

If you want a nu-Rogue Legion baby spec identity, you should petition Blizzard for cosmetic glyphs rather than forcing your garbage on every single Rogue

[niztheundead87]

Spec identity can get fucked.

I've played a Rogue for 15 years.

Not retarded drooling shadowblade, not yahtzee pirate, I play a WARCRAFT ROGUE

If you want a nu-Rogue Legion baby spec identity, you should petition Blizzard for cosmetic glyphs rather than forcing your garbage on every single Rogue

Calm Your tits kiddo you don't even have an argument

[shoegazing]

Calm Your tits kiddo you don't even have an argument

And you do? The "argument" of spec fantasy vs. class fantasy would be entirely subjective in a vacuum. But this isn't a vacuum. We are talking about people's RPG characters that they have played for well over a decade. The decision made in Legion to take the Rogue specs in a radically different direction was always a braindead decision fated to create tremendous player backlash. It's obvious that Blizzard didn't properly think through the consequences of their action.

The nu-Rogue spec fantasy would be fine for a new class or for creating additional specs, but the decision to delete somebody's existing character and replace it with something completely at odds with that was abjectly retarded and Blizzard now realizes it too. Ironically, the fierce backlash they received for Legion changes has probably made them too hesitant to change the specs back quickly enough -- "we now think it's important not to disrupt players who have found a level of comfort with their specialization" is an actual quote by the lead combat designer in the Shadowlands panel from Blizzcon.

[schwank05]

Like DK's Wrath was the golden era of the Rogue especially Combat, in fact I never wanted to play a rogue until they were able to wield Axes in Wrath. But with the removal of Fast OH weapons and Armor penn. they destroyed Combat and then after it was already dead they then totally killed it off in favor of Gankplank.

[niztheundead87]

And you do? The "argument" of spec fantasy vs. class fantasy would be entirely subjective in a vacuum. But this isn't a vacuum. We are talking about people's RPG characters that they have played for well over a decade. The decision made in Legion to take the Rogue specs in a radically different direction was always a braindead decision fated to create tremendous player backlash. It's obvious that Blizzard didn't properly think through the consequences of their action.

The nu-Rogue spec fantasy would be fine for a new class or for creating additional specs, but the decision to delete somebody's existing character and replace it with something completely at odds with that was abjectly retarded and Blizzard now realizes it too. Ironically, the fierce backlash they received for Legion changes has probably made them too hesitant to change the specs too quickly -- "we now think it's important not to disrupt players who have found a level of comfort with their specialization" is an actual quote by the lead combat designer in the Shadowlands panel from Blizzcon.

The problem is mouth breathing raging kids that have no real argument and reeee at the slightest chance they have. Damned if they do damned if they don't.

Show us any meaningful changes if you can do better then .

[shoegazing]

The problem is mouth breathing raging kids that have no real argument and reeee at the slightest chance they have. Damned if they do damned if they don't.

Show us any meaningful changes if you can do better then .

Check your reading comprehension instead of raging out. People have invested over a decade of time, and hundreds of days /played, into their WoW Rogue, so it never made sense for Blizzard to delete the oldschool Rogue class fantasy and replace it with the nu-Rogue spec fantasy. It's one thing when creating a completely new class or spec, it's a different thing entirely when you are talking about replacing something that people love and are heavily invested in.

If you read between the lines on the statements Blizzard has made about class fantasy, unpruning, and shadowlands class design since that point, it's clear that they even realize the Legion design direction was a mistake.

Taking the Rogue class back in a more traditional direction is the best thing they have done in a long time, and it's a shame they are making weak compromise changes to try to appease both oldschool Rogues as well as Legion baby nu-Rogues, instead of just fully committing.

I will add that seeing people who don't understand the history and context melting down over it has been its own kind of reward.

[Seliar]

Spec identity can get fucked.

I've played a Rogue for 15 years.

Not retarded drooling shadowblade, not yahtzee pirate, I play a WARCRAFT ROGUE

If you want a nu-Rogue Legion baby spec identity, you should petition Blizzard for cosmetic glyphs rather than forcing your garbage on every single Rogue

I've played a rogue for 15 years and the legion sub rogue (post 7.2) was by far the best iteration of the class/spec and I really hate that rupture returns for sub instead of fixing nightblade...

[niztheundead87]

Check your reading comprehension instead of raging out. People have invested over a decade of time, and hundreds of days /played, into their WoW Rogue, so it never made sense for Blizzard to delete the oldschool Rogue class fantasy and replace it with the nu-Rogue spec fantasy. It's one thing when creating a completely new class or spec, it's a different thing entirely when you are talking about replacing something that people love and are heavily invested in.

If you read between the lines on the statements Blizzard has made about class fantasy, unpruning, and shadowlands class design since that point, it's clear that they even realize the Legion design direction was a mistake.

Taking the Rogue class back in a more traditional direction is the best thing they have done in a long time, and it's a shame they are making weak compromise changes to try to appease both oldschool Rogues as well as Legion baby nu-Rogues, instead of just fully committing.

I will add that seeing people who don't understand the history and context melting down over it has been its own kind of reward.

The only person that is over reacting here is obviously none other than yourself.

You might live in a cave but the day they removed and everyone cheered for it. It's a boring non engaging mechanic.you press a button and watch .you make it sound like it's the hardest thing in the world.

Blizzard is giving buttons back simply because they want to please people and the he easy way to do it is to bring back old mechanics rather than design new and balance around them.they simply went the easy way.the problem is not what you think you want but what you need.

As soon as they give back snd people will ask for cut to the chase and then we went a full circle.

Also come off it making it sound like old style rogue gameplay was hard. Spamming ss and keeping and up snd is the most tedious boring thing in the game. Besides Cara when they brought reveali g strike the rotation was pretty much the same. Auto attack dmg .

But guess that is hard for you

[shoegazing]

You might live in a cave but the day they removed and everyone cheered for it.

everyone

Interesting theory.

you make it sound like it's the hardest thing in the world.

[citation needed]

Also come off it making it sound like old style rogue gameplay was hard. Spamming ss and keeping and up snd is the most tedious boring thing in the game. Besides Cara when they brought reveali g strike the rotation was pretty much the same. Auto attack dmg .

LOL, you think I play a spec that presses sinister strike, lmao. You also think I'm looking at the class through the all-encompassing lense of "muh rotation" while tunneling Patchwerk, which is arguably even funnier. Hey buddy, is your damage meter running? Better go catch it!

The only person that is over reacting here is obviously none other than yourself.

Hmm, let's evaluate that claim vs. your own statements:

Calm Your tits kiddo you don't even have an argument

The problem is mouth breathing raging kids that have no real argument and reeee at the slightest chance they have.

But please, do continue to embarrass yourself for the sake of my entertainment. I am truly loving it!

I've played a rogue for 15 years and the legion sub rogue (post 7.2) was by far the best iteration of the class/spec and I really hate that rupture returns for sub instead of fixing nightblade...

Sounds like you should be asking Blizzard for a talent or cosmetic glyph.

[niztheundead87]

Interesting theory.



[citation needed]



LOL, you think I play a spec that presses sinister strike, lmao. You also think I'm looking at the class through the all-encompassing lense of "muh rotation" while tunneling Patchwerk, which is arguably even funnier. Hey buddy, is your damage meter running? Better go catch it!



Hmm, let's evaluate that claim vs. your own statements:





But please, do continue to embarrass yourself for the sake of my entertainment. I am truly loving it!



Sounds like you should be asking Blizzard for a talent or cosmetic glyph.

You talk about raging but then you come here to spout nonsense without giving any argument other than : lol and lmao .

And is simply a boring maintenance buff you just make a weak aura and forget about it simple as that .

But I guess you must think you solved the theory of everything but pressing one button

[shoegazing]

without giving any argument other than : lol and lmao .

IDK what else to tell you buddy, I've clearly stated it multiple times but your reading comprehension appears to be not so great:

Check your reading comprehension instead of raging out. People have invested over a decade of time, and hundreds of days /played, into their WoW Rogue, so it never made sense for Blizzard to delete the oldschool Rogue class fantasy and replace it with the nu-Rogue spec fantasy. It's one thing when creating a completely new class or spec, it's a different thing entirely when you are talking about replacing something that people love and are heavily invested in.

If you read between the lines on the statements Blizzard has made about class fantasy, unpruning, and shadowlands class design since that point, it's clear that they even realize the Legion design direction was a mistake.

Taking the Rogue class back in a more traditional direction is the best thing they have done in a long time, and it's a shame they are making weak compromise changes to try to appease both oldschool Rogues as well as Legion baby nu-Rogues, instead of just fully committing.

I will add that seeing people who don't understand the history and context melting down over it has been its own kind of reward.

And I'll say it again, the preference of nu-Rogue spec fantasy vs. old Rogue class fantasy is in some sense a subjective matter of personal preference, but in this case the difference is that it was an unwise product management decision, from a business standpoint, to greatly piss of a large part of the existing Rogue audience by taking their RPG characters which they had invested considerable time and effort into in a radically different direction.

It's obvious that Blizzard has received a lot of feedback that players preferred class fantasy over spec fantasy, otherwise why would they pursue a return to the older design direction with Shadowlands? Are you capable of actually engaging with this fact in good faith or will you continue to plug your ears and scream in denial?

And is simply a boring maintenance buff you just make a weak aura and forget about it simple as that .

You still haven't figured out that it doesn't actually work this way outside of your PvE box, have you?

In PvP you consider: 1. how long can I stick to my target before I get CCd? 2. am I going for burst damage right now or do I need to set up CCs, stack buffs, and pool energy for burst damage later? 3. then you make a decision about how to spend your combo points between SnD, Rupture, Eviscerate, and Kidney Shot. Recuperate and Expose Armor as well, until Blizzard pruned them because "muh rotation!!!11" players that see the game from a narrow, raid boss tunnel vision point of view complained that these abilities were "useless".

[niztheundead87]

IDK what else to tell you buddy, I've clearly stated it multiple times but your reading comprehension appears to be not so great:



And I'll say it again, the preference of nu-Rogue spec fantasy vs. old Rogue class fantasy is in some sense a subjective matter of personal preference, but in this case the difference is that it was an unwise product management decision, from a business standpoint, to greatly piss of a large part of the existing Rogue audience by taking their RPG characters which they had invested considerable time and effort into in a radically different direction.

It's obvious that Blizzard has received a lot of feedback that players preferred class fantasy over spec fantasy, otherwise why would they pursue a return to the older design direction with Shadowlands? Are you capable of actually engaging with this fact in good faith or will you continue to plug your ears and scream in denial?

They are simply giving you back stuff to make you think you got what you needed.in legion they took away stuuf and gave a weapon and everyone was happy , same thing with BFA now they give you back stuff to sugar coat your butthurt feelings .

But I return to my original statement whether you like and or not it doesn't make you a pro by pressing a single button.

If you want to believe the old rogue spec was something amazing as it was the same thing for years you can knock yourself all you want but it was boring af.

But even so if you don't play said spec why do you even get so triggered about it.

You talk as if you express the opinion of the entire community but you simply give your own nonsensical opinion.

And btw the whole argument was from the beginning about pve . keeping maintenance buffs for pve.i never talked about PvP. You brought it in for no reason other than to rage on. Just because you think you are a PvP god doesn't prove you known what you are saying

[Saltysquidoon]

In a game that is 15+ years old, is anyone really worried about topping the meters? Unless you are playing with a bleeding edge Mythic guild, just show up and have fun.

If you're talking about my rtb comment my point was when you press your 'cool' pirate dice and get shit, well, it feels like shit. I expressed it in terms of dps because that's what a rogue does.

[shoegazing]

But I return to my original statement whether you like and or not it doesn't make you a pro by pressing a single button.

You keep saying this and I continue to laugh. Where did I say that pressing SnD makes me a professional gamer? It has nothing to do with the core argument that I've made, which is about the connection that I feel to my RPG character. Again, I encourage you to calm down and try reading more closely for comprehension.

If you want to believe the old rogue spec was something amazing as it was the same thing for years you can knock yourself all you want but it was boring af.

This is your subjective preference, which is not the same as mine. My opinion is that oldschool Subtlety Rogue was a near-perfect masterpiece.

And btw the whole argument was from the beginning about pve . keeping maintenance buffs for pve.i never talked about PvP. You brought it in for no reason other than to rage on. Just because you think you are a PvP god doesn't prove you known what you are saying

The class design affects us all in PvE or PvP. The reason that I liked the older Rogue design has nothing to do with PvE which I do not care for in modern WoW, and everything to do with PvP, so that's the reason that I'm going to cite when giving my feedback on class design. In my evaluation, for reasons I have previously elaborated in this thread, SnD is an interesting button in Rogue PvP.

[niztheundead87]

You keep saying this and I continue to laugh. Where did I say that pressing SnD makes me a professional gamer? It has nothing to do with the core argument that I've made, which is about the connection that I feel to my RPG character. Again, I encourage you to calm down and try reading more closely for comprehension.



This is your subjective preference, which is not the same as mine. My opinion is that oldschool Subtlety Rogue was a near-perfect masterpiece.



The class design affects us all in PvE or PvP. The reason that I liked the older Rogue design has nothing to do with PvE which I do not care for in modern WoW, and everything to do with PvP, so that's the reason that I'm going to cite when giving my feedback on class design. In my evaluation, for reasons I have previously elaborated in this thread, SnD is an interesting button in Rogue PvP.

then why do you make it sound such as that playing the old sub spec was hard in the first place.
oh wait you are one of the people that believe that classic was hard. omegalaul.

besides that if you dont play outlaw and you like sub why the hell do you even care about my original comment then. it was about outlaw and pve from the beggining learn to read.spamming ss and snd in vanilla , tbc , wrath , mop and even wod was braindead. the rotation was pretty much the same .

now in shadowlands they introduce more spec specific abilities and make it actually interestic , now comapre that to any old version of the spec




and check the venthyr covenant ability that replaces ambush



shuriken stormand backstab crits apply find weakness and then theres a new aoe ability called shadowvault , aoe dmg and a jump , like dfa does.
shadow dance always gives 15% dmg done

[shoegazing]

You post incoherent non sequitur after incoherent non sequitur and expect to be taken seriously - why? I suppose the joke is on me for even engaging.

shuriken stormand backstab crits apply find weakness and then theres a new aoe ability called shadowvault , aoe dmg and a jump , like dfa does.
shadow dance always gives 15% dmg done

Wow, thank you for breaking it down for me. :^)

[niztheundead87]

You post incoherent non sequitur after incoherent non sequitur and expect to be taken seriously - why? I suppose the joke is on me for even engaging.



Wow, thank you for breaking it down for me. :^)

And you post nu-arguements nonstop spouting drool over and over when you missed the point of the original post with your mouth breathing thinking

Go back to classic and spam AVS so you can feel good with yourself and the non existent class fantasy.