What Does "Defund the Police" Mean

[Endus]

its enough for her to voice support, which is why there are now headlines about "democrats want to defund police". that's what people were talking about when they said it would drive the narrative.

now everyone gets to decide their own interpretation of just how far "defund the police goes", and decide from there. now "BLM", is not the topic of conversation.
now it's a nice, easily diverted "do you want to fund police or not", instead of a question about race.

BLM hasn't gone anywhere. Maybe you can't hold two thoughts in your head at the same time, but don't project that on others.

[starlord]

BLM hasn't gone anywhere. Maybe you can't hold two thoughts in your head at the same time, but don't project that on others.

right, yes, you are so much smarter than everyone else. here's a cookie. (:: )
the media and society as a whole are not good at holding their attention on several things at once.
you are framing an issue of racism into something which people are going to have a lot easier time saying "no" to.

[Endus]

right, yes, you are so much smarter than everyone else. here's a cookie. (:: )
the media and society as a whole are not good at holding their attention on several things at once.
you are framing an issue of racism into something which people are going to have a lot easier time saying "no" to.

They're inherently related. Sure, people who are fine with the status quo of systemic prejudice and police brutality, they might not want to see this kind of change. But they'll have to come out and expose themselves for doing so.

[starlord]

They're inherently related. Sure, people who are fine with the status quo of systemic prejudice and police brutality, they might not want to see this kind of change. But they'll have to come out and expose themselves for doing so.

and then what happens?

[Endus]

and then what happens?

In an ideal world?

People vote out those who implicitly support and defend police brutality and systemic racism.

In the real world?

A lot of voters also implicitly support and defend those systems, so that outcome isn't as clear.

But we'll be able to identify them as doing so. This may not change things in the here-and-now, but it's still important for the backwards lens of history.

[Elegiac]

I say we just remove the police from high crime areas and let nature take it's course. cause we don't need cops right?

You do realise you're admitting the ineffectiveness of police by acknowledging the highest crime areas are also some of the most highly policed, right? Also:

NYC cops did a work stop, yet crime dropped

n late 2014 and early 2015, escalating tensions in New York City led to the NYPD staging a slowdown in which the department performed only its most essential duties. That might be expected to lead to an increase in crime, but a new analysis of official statistics shows the opposite: a significant drop in major crime for the period of the slowdown. Researchers are now arguing about what this tells us.

The slowdown developed in response to a sequence of events following the death of Eric Garner in July 2014, who died when placed in a chokehold by the police officers who were arresting him. This led to extensive protests, which continued after the decision of a grand jury not to indict the officers involved in Garner’s death. Two weeks after that ruling, NYPD officers Wenjian Liu and Rafael Ramos were fatally shot by an anti-police extremist, and the NYPD responded by informally and collectively stepping back their policing to the bare minimum.

This included fewer tickets and a huge drop in arrests. The action was partly attributed to precautionary measures, but there were also political motivations: “The act was a symbolic show of strength to demonstrate the city’s dependence on the NYPD,” write criminologists Christopher M. Sullivan and Zachary P. O’Keeffe in a paper in Nature Human Behaviour this week.

During the slowdown, police continued to respond to calls, and the arrest rate for major crimes (murder, rape, robbery, felony assault, burglary, grand larceny, and grand theft auto) remained constant. But the arrest rate for non-major crime and narcotic offenses dropped, as did the number of stop-and-frisk events. It took until mid-January for things to begin to return to normal.

Events like these provide rare opportunities to explore questions that couldn’t be tested experimentally, for practical or ethical reasons. So Sullivan and O’Keeffe looked at crime statistics for the duration of the slowdown, and they found something surprising: reports of major crime dropped during the slowdown period.

[starlord]

In an ideal world?

People vote out those who implicitly support and defend police brutality and systemic racism.

In the real world?

A lot of voters also implicitly support and defend those systems, so that outcome isn't as clear.

But we'll be able to identify them as doing so. This may not change things in the here-and-now, but it's still important for the backwards lens of history.

i mean, we've been identifying through the backwards lens a long time now.
by making it more indirect, you are just enabling those selfsame people to continue on as they have.

i can guarantee you there are plenty of small, underfunded, racist police departments who make up the slack through ticketing. in fact it's the rural police who buy most of the military surplus, because its cheap.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.aut...e-departments/

now what is enabling them to do that?
a federal law.

[Endus]

i mean, we've been identifying through the backwards lens a long time now.
by making it more indirect, you are just enabling those selfsame people to continue on as they have.

This is wrong. I have no such capacity. Voters who support them do, and I specifically called that out.

i can guarantee you there are plenty of small, underfunded, racist police departments who make up the slack through ticketing. in fact it's the rural police who buy most of the military surplus, because its cheap.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.aut...e-departments/

now what is enabling them to do that?
a federal law.

This is a straw man that has fuck-all to do with the conversation. Defunding those smaller departments works just the same as anywhere.

[starlord]

This is wrong. I have no such capacity. Voters who support them do, and I specifically called that out.

This is a straw man that has fuck-all to do with the conversation. Defunding those smaller departments works just the same as anywhere.

i take it you are not familiar with ticket traps?

The AJC’s analysis found that the worst “ticket traps” in Georgia by far are in rural areas. They include a string of small cities and counties along state routes and interstates that lead to Florida and the Georgia coast. (Travelers to the Georgia-Florida game on Oct. 31, beware.)

Warwick, population 411, was the top revenue generator in the state for the second year running. City patrol cars are a frequent sight on the Georgia-Florida Parkway (Ga. 300), a popular cut-through to western Florida and a key connector route between Cordele and Albany.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.ajc...4YGvL/amp.html

who do you think will be targeted to make up for lost revenue?
you are just encouraging them to buy more cheap military surplus.
defunding is a way to feel like you are "punishing" the police, not addressing the root cause.

[Endus]

i take it you are not familiar with ticket traps?

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.ajc...4YGvL/amp.html

who do you think will be targeted to make up for lost revenue?
you are just encouraging them to buy more cheap military surplus.
defunding is a way to feel like you are "punishing" the police, not addressing the root cause.

It would help if you understood what we're talking about.

The police department doesn't get to just "decide" to boost funds by setting up ticket traps, to boost how many/which officers they get to hire/retain. The municipality makes those decisions. The PD just implements them.

Police departments literally could not respond the way you're claiming, because they are not sovereign entities unto themselves and do not make their own independent decisions about funding allocation and the like.

[Low Hanging Fruit]

Defunding was a stupid term to use like most emotional from the hip shots tend to be. Reduce Funding it probably a better way to put it. Not sure the police force needs to be on the same readiness level as the US Army. They can keep the peace plenty well enough without an entire wing of attack helicopters and a battalion of armored vehicles filled with machine gun gripping hot heads per city with a few thousand additional footmen soldiers manning the streets on the regular. Sure, I understand the need for things like SWAT when elevated things occur. I understand the need for patrol cars to respond to calls. I understand the need to be able to provided security for certain places and areas for a smoother society. I also want them to be trained and equipped for the job at hand. But the paramilitary force that they have become is overboard. They don't need that level of money. Reducing their unlimited power starts by reducing the budget. Then once they cannot act completely on their own footing they can start to depend on other agencies and community groups again to regulate the law in a better way though society as a whole. Then suddenly they have to be accountable to things beyond themselves. Then the LONG process of earning peoples trust back can begin.

[starlord]

It would help if you understood what we're talking about.

The police department doesn't get to just "decide" to boost funds by setting up ticket traps, to boost how many/which officers they get to hire/retain. The municipality makes those decisions. The PD just implements them.

Police departments literally could not respond the way you're claiming, because they are not sovereign entities unto themselves and do not make their own independent decisions about funding allocation and the like.

mhm. those municipalities where police are some of their top revenue generators, will hamstring that source of revenue because someone might call them racist for it.
meanwhile that federal program is still in place to let them buy military gear for cheap.

[Ooid]

Defund means completely remove all funding.

[Milchshake]

News from the newly formed Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone.
After banishing the SPD to the two largest grocery stores in the area. Some asshole with a gun has already declared himself the Anarchism Cop.



To paraphrase Keith David
LARP-a-cops! I hate LARP-a-cops too!

[Elegiac]

News from the newly formed Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone.
After banishing the SPD to the two largest grocery stores in the area. Some asshole with a gun has already declared himself the Anarchism Cop.



To paraphrase Keith David
LARP-a-cops! I hate LARP-a-cops too!

Your point being....what?

[Very Tired]

Defunding the police seems like an effective strategy of reducing police funding and using that money to fund other social services that know how to handle certain problems better. I.e. the cops aren't called for everything like when an autistic guy is sitting in the middle of the street, but rather a worker who know how to deal with autistic people and doesn't need a gun. Cops, however, will still remain to deal with problems like home invasions or bank robberies.

Also likely means the police stops buying military equipment just because the army is looking to pawn it off on someone.

[Milchshake]

Your point being....what?

Come to the CHAZ. Live the dream.

[Elegiac]

Come to the CHAZ. Live the dream.

Uh huh.

Not sure what's particularly amusing about a breakdown of the social contract to the point people in one of America's richest cities have had to set up a commune downtown, but aight Felicia. Let's make fun of the folks who've been gassed for several days in a row.

[Milchshake]

Uh huh.

Not sure what's particularly amusing about a breakdown of the social contract to the point people in one of America's richest cities have had to set up a commune downtown, but aight Felicia. Let's make fun of the folks who've been gassed for several days in a row.

Just giving a local POV. The cops left, and Raz, Warlord of the Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone moved in.
He even took the time to update his wikipedia page.

Pointing out some people are just into this for the online optics, hit too close to home?

[Elegiac]

Just giving a local POV. The cops left, and Raz, Warlord of the Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone moved in.
He even took the time to update his wikipedia page.

Pointing out some people are just into this for the online optics, hit too close to home?

Yeah, it does, because I live in Seattle and personally know a lot of the victims of SPD's brutality over the years and especially recently, as many of my coworkers have been providing pro-bono medical care to protesters. Oh, and still somewhat itchy myself.

Climb down before you embarrass yourself further with this drivel. It's neither the time nor the place.