No more subscriptions

[kaminaris]

This is sad. A "indie" with sub is a fail.

Yeah, how dare they ask for money for their work! It's outrageous!

[Tiwack]

They want to double-dip, I wish they'd stick with one or the other and cut it out entirely with the gametime-tokens making people play to be able to continue playing. The amount of boosters and AH-goblins is insane and to me provides awful gameplay experiences. Then again the monthly sub is probably the only reason everyone's not been completely screwed by Activision yet.

[Wries]

No model is perfect. I think this one is the one I prefer, though. Mostly nothing in-game is hounding me to open my wallet just once more to perhaps gain a significant advantage, like when I played Vindictus some years ago.

[Laqweeta]

The sub is fine. What is it? Far less than a round on a night out (remember those?). The game without it would be an absolute shambles.

It already is lmfao

[KainneAbsolute]

I would be happy with lower expansion price

[Dunkelzahn]

Thanks to the WoW Token everything can be earned in Game, and trust me the cash shop is nowhere near as bad as ESO or Guild Wars 2, starting with Bag slots (ESO and GW2), to one sub only crafting bag (Sub only!) the huge account of money for DLC and chapters... there is nothing free about having fun in those two games!

Rationalize it away and convince yourself otherwise all you need to. You see someone riding around on a cash shop mount, everyone else just rolls their eyes at them. That's just as true in WoW as it is in not-free-to-play games.

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And that is just dumb. Everything is earned with real money because of the subscription. And most things in-game can be bought with boosts and tokens so there is no "prestige" difference.

See above.

[rhorle]

This is sad. A "indie" with sub is a fail.

As opposed to an indie game with just a cash shop? Why is it that one stream of revenue is failure but one is the greatest thing ever? Oh right. One allows you to play some of the game for free while the other doesn't allow you to be a freeloader.

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Rationalize it away and convince yourself otherwise all you need to. You see someone riding around on a cash shop mount, everyone else just rolls their eyes at them. That's just as true in WoW as it is in not-free-to-play games.

Which is still dumb. It is dumb to roll your eyes at someone just because they decided to like something enough to buy it. There is no way to tell if the person has the Mythic Jania mount when content was current. With out a boost to buy it. Or anything else that would "lower the prestige". Stop being so judgemental and so arrogant against stuff.

That is a toxic attitude. It doesn't matter the source. Not to mention it is hypocritical because I highly doubt you look down upon those who bought a CE of the game. It is just some arbitrary rule against "cash shop" items when plenty of things are bought with money and ultimately doesn't matter at all to the game. No one uses items for prestige. They use them because they like them. I don't use my Dreadwake mount for the prestige of having a 6-month sub. I use it because I like it.

[Raelbo]

Rationalize it away and convince yourself otherwise all you need to.

Rationalize what away exactly? It seems to me you're just making an issue of nothing.

You see someone riding around on a cash shop mount, everyone else just rolls their eyes at them.

No, not everyone else. A few grumpy individuals maybe. Personally I smile when I see someone riding a shop mount because clearly it's something that the person is enjoying.

[AntenoraDK]

Anyone who thinks WoW current present day community is **** tier. Have obviously never seen LoL's One in comparison.

WoW's community is a lot more toxic than it was a few years back.

[Dunkelzahn]

No, not everyone else. A few grumpy individuals maybe. Personally I smile when I see someone riding a shop mount because clearly it's something that the person is enjoying.

That. That is the rationalizing I was talking about.

[Raelbo]

That. That is the rationalizing I was talking about.

To rationalize (in this context) is to attempt to justify some irrational behaviour or attitude with reasoning that is fundamentally flawed.

If you're going to accuse someone of rationalizing something, maybe it would help if you could outline exactly what it is they're trying to rationalize and why their reasoning is flawed.

Ironically, if we look at what you're doing, it fits the bill of "rationalizing" perfectly. You've expressed an irrational hostile attitude towards the shop and anyone who uses it. And your reasoning seems to be simply that "everyone else" shares your disdain - reasoning that is flawed on two fronts: firstly making an unfounded assumption about what the attitude of everyone else is, and then you're making an appeal to authority fallacy.

[CaptainV]

Yeah it's ok when FF does it but that's ok beacuse catgirls.

>:3

Nice try mate but in FF14 the costs are *significantly* cheaper, a level boost alone costs you 1/3rd of the cost compared to wow, where as wow legit costs you what amounts to a game in value.

Square's cash shop is still scummy, but at least its affordably scummy, instead of making things absoleutley unreasonable.

And, Square does *not* have a Token currency you can buy to earn instant gil, like wow, which encourages even more spending for free virtual money.


Honestly when your paying £50 for a character boost in wow, vs a £17.50 boost in 14, we can clearly tell which one is significantly more lenient.

But prices and that affair aside, it is true the age of subscription mmo's are dying out and frankly wow has almost no reason to be a sub mmo in 2020, infact tbh it hurts it "more" to attach a mandatory sub when so many people have already left, they should, have made the game buy to play, especially if they want to compete with other subscription based mmo's currently doing significantly better (like 14).

[neik]

Plenty of spineless and toxic kids spinning out of control in games like Legue of Legends.

My friends used to get death threats (not that it means anything) but it shows what free games can possibly bring to the community.

[Tronski]

Nice try mate but in FF14 the costs are *significantly* cheaper, a level boost alone costs you 1/3rd of the cost compared to wow, where as wow legit costs you what amounts to a game in value.

Square's cash shop is still scummy, but at least its affordably scummy, instead of making things absoleutley unreasonable.

And, Square does *not* have a Token currency you can buy to earn instant gil, like wow, which encourages even more spending for free virtual money.


Honestly when your paying £50 for a character boost in wow, vs a £17.50 boost in 14, we can clearly tell which one is significantly more lenient.

But prices and that affair aside, it is true the age of subscription mmo's are dying out and frankly wow has almost no reason to be a sub mmo in 2020, infact tbh it hurts it "more" to attach a mandatory sub when so many people have already left, they should, have made the game buy to play, especially if they want to compete with other subscription based mmo's currently doing significantly better (like 14).

We can agree on many of these things, but FF14 are most certaintly not doing better than WoW. Every estimate I can find put FF14 at less than 1 mill subs. That's WoW classic alone.

[Izzyfurious]

WoW's community is a lot more toxic than it was a few years back.

Still dosen't compare as big compared to the one i compared it to. You should see for awhile atm how people over on that games Community reacts to things in general about their game.

[Ghostile]

especially if they want to compete with other subscription based mmo's currently doing significantly better (like 14).

First we'd need an MMO that was doing better than wow.

[CaptainV]

First we'd need an MMO that was doing better than wow.

At the moment, 14 definatley.

Shadowbringers legitimately smashed BFA in terms of quality and gameplay and story narrative.

And the fact its getting its 5.3 finale soon isnt gonna help BFA at all especially with 5.3 also comming with reworks to the origional ARR 1-50 experience to make it more streamlined and flying in ARR to make alt leveling faster.

Honestly, 14 is basically becomming the new top dog in terms of quality for MMO's these days, WoW itself has declined since Cata when they added LFR and bonus rolls, and BFA reached the worst point of that RNG reliant system.

If you want an MMO that basically feels like Wow during Vanillia/TBC/Wrath, then you should try 14.

[Ghostile]

At the moment, 14 definatley.

Shadowbringers legitimately smashed BFA in terms of quality and gameplay and story narrative.

And the fact its getting its 5.3 finale soon isnt gonna help BFA at all especially with 5.3 also comming with reworks to the origional ARR 1-50 experience to make it more streamlined and flying in ARR to make alt leveling faster.

Honestly, 14 is basically becomming the new top dog in terms of quality for MMO's these days, WoW itself has declined since Cata when they added LFR and bonus rolls, and BFA reached the worst point of that RNG reliant system.

If you want an MMO that basically feels like Wow during Vanillia/TBC/Wrath, then you should try 14.

Ive played ffxiv some thousand hours, the only thing it has going for it is looks.
If the pvp wasnt quite literally the worst on the market and gearing had even a hint of choise , it could be taken seriously.

[Strawberry]

I have always been against F2P games and I will always be against F2P games.

It hasn't even saved good MMORPG F2P games like Elder Scrolls Online and SW:TOR. Everything is centered around the store even if the games don't offer P2W stuff.
Another example is Black Desert and Path of Exile. F2P games, both have shitty looking item drops because all good looking stuff is in the store, for real money.
And those are THE BEST CASE SCENARIOS, with only cosmetic items (and some xp bonus stuff). The reality is most F2P games are much, much worse.

F2P, no thanks. Not even with an optional sub.
If WoW goes F2P I'll switch to something that has a subscription only model.

[Drewbacca]

If they could do it in a way where the transactions were all cosmetic and didn’t impact gameplay, then yes, I’d be for it. Essentially, just the way transactions are now, but maybe more of them. However, if it turned into having any type of advantage by paying for things, then I’d be against it. P2P games on mobile devices are the destruction of video games IMO, and I’d hate to see WoW take any step in that direction.