Mega-Thread: Trump Focused Discussion

[Elegiac]

Wow.

The Pentagon’s top general discussed resigning amid criticism over his participation in President Donald Trump’s controversial photo op at a Washington church, three defense officials familiar with the matter told NBC News.

So it was that bad.

This feels familiar. How many "so-and-so threatened to resign" have we heard this term?

I think if the number of burners around lately is any indication things aren't going too smoothly in Trumpland.

Or it could be the fact the RNC voted not to change its platform for 2020 and has retained a lot of lines condemning "the current president" as holdovers from 2016.

A vote by the Republican National Committee to leave the party’s 2016 party platform unchanged ahead of the November election has infuriated grassroots activists — including moderates who wanted to streamline its message and social conservatives who sought added language on emerging hot-button topics.

The decision by the party’s executive panel Wednesday means the GOP will maintain positions in the 4-year-old policy blueprint — including opposition to same-sex marriage and a nod to gay conversion therapy — and decline to stake out new positions on topics such as police reform, gender identity and third-trimester abortions. Party officials and senior Trump campaign aides had previously discussed ways to pare down the 58-page document to a single note card or abbreviated list of principles, but the effort broke down after several conservative groups registered complaints with the White House.

“America has changed incredibly since 2016 and not updating our platform to reflect that is an unforced error. The RNC should reconsider this terrible decision,” said Terry Schilling, executive director of the American Principles Project and a proponent of updating the platform to oppose efforts to defund law enforcement or permit transgender minors to undergo gender reassignment treatments.

“We can’t go into 2020 with the same platform we had in 2016, and by limiting the ability to make changes you run the risk of having a stale platform. It will be tone deaf,” Schilling added.

The GOP 2020 Platform now, officially, contains statements like this:



Also, requoting for emphasis:

Party officials and senior Trump campaign aides had previously discussed ways to pare down the 58-page document to a single note card or abbreviated list of principles, but the effort broke down after several conservative groups registered complaints with the White House.

[Breccia]

Trump sanctions ICC employees for bringing up Afghanistan war crimes.

No, really.

President Donald Trump on Thursday authorized U.S. economic and travel sanctions against International Criminal Court employees involved in an investigation into whether American forces committed war crimes in Afghanistan.

Foreign Minister Stef Blok of the Netherlands, a member of the Western security alliance, wrote on Twitter he was “very disturbed” by the U.S. stance, saying his nation supported the ICC, which he described as “crucial in the fight against impunity.”

The sanctions that can be imposed under the order include freezing the U.S. assets of those who help the ICC investigate or prosecute American citizens without U.S. consent as well as barring them and their families from visiting the United States.

Neither Pompeo nor any of the top officials who were present at the announcement - Defense Secretary Mark Esper, national security adviser Robert O’Brien and Attorney General William Barr - took questions from reporters.

The ICC had no immediate comment on the announcement.

The war crimes in question pre-date Trump.

[Elegiac]

Trump sanctions ICC employees for bringing up Afghanistan war crimes.

No, really.

The war crimes in question pre-date Trump.

Was that before or after the UN started investigating the US for human rights violations related to police brutality and handling of protests?

[Thekri]

Wow.

The Pentagon’s top general discussed resigning amid criticism over his participation in President Donald Trump’s controversial photo op at a Washington church, three defense officials familiar with the matter told NBC News.

So it was that bad.

This feels familiar. How many "so-and-so threatened to resign" have we heard this term?

Who talked him out of it? The asshole needs to resign.

Look, I don't actually have anything against Milley, I even have his challenge coin, he gave it to me several years ago. But the position of Chairman of the Joint Chiefs is a lot bigger then Mark Milley, and what he did there damaged the reputation of the armed services, and violated the most sacred trust the nation places in any officer, which is the requirement to remain apolitical, and not threaten the freedoms that we swear to protect.

Maybe he did it willfully, maybe it was bad judgement, or maybe he got conned into it by a White House aide. None of the options are redeeming, and none of the options are forgivable. All three options leave him in a position where he cannot be trusted to fill the office he know holds, and so he needs to go. His value to this nation ended the moment he betrayed its trust, and so it is time to retire. I am not advocating any sort of charges against him or anything, what he did was not illegal, but he didn't stand up for the nation when it needed it most, so he should hang his head in shame.

[Breccia]

So Trump's set to begin a round table in Dallas with law enforcement about race relations

It's a shame we don't have any quotes fr--

And that means force, but force with compassion. But if you’re going to have to really do a job, if somebody’s really bad, you’re going to have to do it with real strength, real power.

I said we have to dominate the streets. And I was criticized for that statement. Well, guess what, you know who dominated the streets? People who you don’t want to dominate the streets.

Oh man...that "Juneteenth" speech is going to be epic.

- - - Updated - - -

Who talked him out of it?

Probably Trump. This isn't the first time "Stop doing this or I'll resign and write a book about you" has come up.

- - - Updated - - -

CBS News found a government contracting site in which the US Army was looking for 500 riot shields.

Oh, shit.

The equipment is not in common usage among military personnel. As of Tuesday morning, the ISO-Group, a major military and law enforcement supply chain vendor, noted on its site that the face shield "has not been procured by the US Government in over a year." Tuesday morning that page changed to note it "is actively being procured by the US Government."

Matt Shatzkin, a former Army War College professor of supply chain management, said the military's logistics wing often procures supplies or investigates how to get those items in the future, as part of contingency planning for emergencies.

Shatzkin said the Army likely had to begin planning for the possibility it might need riot control gear after the president indicated in both a tweet and in an Oval Office meeting that he wanted a military response to ongoing protests against police violence.

"There are so many layers between the president and the units that would be actually conducting this mission, and within those layers, you have people who get concerned about the ability to respond," said Shatzkin, who is currently a professor at York College, and author of the book "Understanding the Complexity of Emergency Supply Chains." "It's layers of 'what if' questioning, and someone has to say, 'Hey, we might be asked to do this. What is our ability to do it?"

Shatzkin said such an analysis would note the type of riot control gear that the military doesn't tend to keep stocked because it's not a police force.

[Thekri]

Probably Trump. This isn't the first time "Stop doing this or I'll resign and write a book about you" has come up.

- - - Updated - - -

CBS News found a government contracting site in which the US Army was looking for 500 riot shields.

Oh, shit.

Wouldn't read much into that. 500 is not very many, and the military does have riot shields. It doesn't have very many, relative to its numbers, but it has probably a few tens of thousands of them. I have trained with them several times, they are a useful tool. 500 riot shields is the sort of completely normal purchase request that isn't worthy of attention, they are doubtless replacing 500 old busted up riot shields we have been using since the 70s.

Now if the military is ordering 50,000 riot shields, that is a big deal.

[Breccia]

500 riot shields is the sort of completely normal purchase request that isn't worthy of attention.

I mean...it made major headlines. I just kind of assumed CBS wouldn't waste front page space on it if it was nothing.

[Thekri]

I mean...it made major headlines. I just kind of assumed CBS wouldn't waste front page space on it if it was nothing.

Doesn't really mean much, most reporters don't know what they are looking at. Just read the article, it isn't even riot shields, it is just face masks. If they wanted to equip a unit that wasn't already equipped for it, they would need to buy the face shields, the actual shields, the shin guards and the batons. The fact it is only one item means it is probably a replacement. Especially since it is the masks, which have to be replaced pretty often because they get cloudy and scratched and hard to see through.

500 is absolutely nothing in Army terms. It is less then a Cavalry Squadron, and half an Infantry Battalion.

Edit: I never actually worked with face shields for exactly the scratching issue. When we trained with riot gear, all the equipment was very old, and the face shields were not serviceable. The article even says "Has not been purchased in over a year" which means that it is purchased, just infrequently.

[Breccia]

If anyone has anything important to say to the Trump Plaza Casino, center of Atlantic City's Park Place/Boardwalk, you're going to have to hurry. It's going to be imploded.

The casino hotel has been vacant since 2014, and the city has long sought its demolition, especially as pieces of its facade were falling to the ground and, more recently, onto the Boardwalk in high winds.

The property is owned by billionaire Carl Icahn, who submitted a plan calling for imploding the casino and its tower by June 2021 after the city went to court seeking an emergency order. The city wants the property down sooner, Mayor Marty Small Sr. said.

Small said the June 2021 date is unacceptable, as it’s during the city’s busy season. The city wants the implosion to take place by the end of 2020 or by February, in time for a full cleanup before next summer.

How about November? November sounds good. Trust me, there'll be nobody on a NJ beach in November to get hurt.

[Elegiac]

Wouldn't read much into that. 500 is not very many, and the military does have riot shields. It doesn't have very many, relative to its numbers, but it has probably a few tens of thousands of them. I have trained with them several times, they are a useful tool. 500 riot shields is the sort of completely normal purchase request that isn't worthy of attention, they are doubtless replacing 500 old busted up riot shields we have been using since the 70s.

Now if the military is ordering 50,000 riot shields, that is a big deal.

Well, just in case.

Apropros of nothing, spray paint and other forms of enamel paint are a) difficult if not impossible to get off plastic without damaging it, and b) quickly render riot shields and perspex face shields opaque making them a lot less effective for the user.

Just saying.

[Thekri]

Well, just in case.

Apropros of nothing, spray paint and other forms of enamel paint are a) difficult if not impossible to get off plastic without damaging it, and b) quickly render riot shields and perspex face shields opaque making them a lot less effective for the user.

Just saying.

Sunscreen and bug spray do the same thing. The later is highly not recommended, as spraying that stuff in someone's eyes is seriously nasty. Spray sunscreens work very well for it though.

[Kokolums]

I'm shopping for sailboats and thinking about just sailing the Pacific for a looooong loooong time while the extremists go nuts. If you are smart, you also might want to consider it.

[Elegiac]

Sunscreen and bug spray do the same thing. The later is highly not recommended, as spraying that stuff in someone's eyes is seriously nasty. Spray sunscreens work very well for it though.

I've said this a couple of times, but I want to repeat it because like...I really don't think we appreciate the raw heroism and sense of communal power that we saw and are still seeing in the Hong Kong protests. So many of the lessons learned and the strategies developed there are, in my belief, a significant factor in why these protests are having as much effect.

[Themius]

From what I'm reading, I'm not actually seeing anything about slaves as "test subjects." He operated on a few, because he was a doctor and there were slaves at the time, but it seems to be cases of him earnestly trying to help them with early surgical techniques rather than being experimental in nature. Comparing it to Unit 732 or the Nazis' work under Josef Mengele feels pretty disingenuous.

Disingenuous?

Quite literally surgery on slaves during this time were usually experiments some of his surgeries were experiments.

Because he only recorded his few successes and largely ignored the slaves that died means what that it wasn't experimental? When a woman was forcibly cut open to then die... that wasn't recorded, though witnesses at the time wrote about it, he did not.

I mean you say it is disingenuous but we have history of experiments on black men and especially women.

[Elegiac]

I'm shopping for sailboats and thinking about just sailing the Pacific for a looooong loooong time while the extremists go nuts. If you are smart, you also might want to consider it.

Please enjoy the soothing tones of this video of racist statues being torn down with Enya playing in the background, while you do.

[Thekri]

Disingenuous?

Quite literally surgery on slaves during this time were usually experiments some of his surgeries were experiments.

Because he only recorded his few successes and largely ignored the slaves that died means what that it wasn't experimental? When a woman was forcibly cut open to then die... that wasn't recorded, though witnesses at the time wrote about it, he did not.

I mean you say it is disingenuous but we have history of experiments on black men and especially women.

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. It is certainly possible he was, but I have seen nothing to suggest he was performing surgeries that were unnecessary or experimental. You can't use the fact that someone didn't record himself doing horrible things as evidence that he must have done them.

It goes against basic logic too. If he was performing medical experiments, then publishing the results of those expieriments is the whole point of doing them. We know Mengele did it because he recorded it. The absence of that record indicates he either wasn't doing them, or he was just torturing people to death. And there is no evidence I know of for that.

[Frolk]

Trump sanctions ICC employees for bringing up Afghanistan war crimes.

No, really.



The war crimes in question pre-date Trump.

Im sure they have NOTHING to hide if they are so against any kind scrutiny.

[Breccia]

Im sure they have NOTHING to hide if they are so against any kind scrutiny.

It can't be that. Trump would leap at the chance to discredit Obama or W. He views it as lack of respect for his authoritah.

[Edge-]

https://www.forbes.com/sites/andrews.../#c0da0a71be52

The poll was conducted by Gravis Marketing and showed Biden and Trump tied in Florida, 50% to 50%, with Trump leading among undecided voters by 6 points, 53% to 47%.

The poll was presented as positive for Trump by OANN reporter Kristian Rouz, who said it showed “rising support” and framed it as a contradiction to most polls of the Sunshine State, which show Biden leading.

But, as the Washington Post’s Philip Bump pointed out, the poll pushed undecided voters to commit to a candidate, meaning that, to get to 50% for each candidate, Biden must have been leading among decided voters, a stat that was not presented in OANN’s report.

Journalist Arieh Kovler noted that shortly after OANN’s report was posted to YouTube, it was deleted, while a tweet from Herring announcing the poll was also deleted.

So...OAN bragged about a positive poll for Trump.

Posted it.

Immediately got called out for the poll not being quite so positive for Trump as they made it seem.

Proceeded to delete all their posts about it.

Which brings us to an interesting question. Is OAN the leading edge of Russian misinformation?

[Themius]

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. It is certainly possible he was, but I have seen nothing to suggest he was performing surgeries that were unnecessary or experimental. You can't use the fact that someone didn't record himself doing horrible things as evidence that he must have done them.

It goes against basic logic too. If he was performing medical experiments, then publishing the results of those expieriments is the whole point of doing them. We know Mengele did it because he recorded it. The absence of that record indicates he either wasn't doing them, or he was just torturing people to death. And there is no evidence I know of for that.

Did you ignore when I said witnesses.

We know that there are additional surgeries that he never recorded.

Tell me "extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence"

What the fuck is extraordinary about saying a slaver owner who worked on slaves against the slaves will also did risky experiments? In his own records he has having once done a surgery because the slavers asked not because he thought surgery would actually help.

At a time in history when using slaves for experiments was extremely rampant and almost every doctor of the time used slaves to learn you want to give "benefit of doubt" because a slaver didn't write down his failures?

How about we go with what was common for the time which erases the claim that it is an extraordinary claim. It is a common claim. it was a common practice.

This is like saying to claim that a man responsible for pulling a lever gassing jews, gassed jews. is an "extraordinary claim" because he never recorded each time he pulled the lever. Therefore we can't just say he gassed jews... though some other people did note he did pull the lever.