Pvp power back? God yes

[kaminaris]

Guys, hold your horses, its ONE item that is probably just some placeholder.

[Darknessvamp]

Actually maybe they should go back to the Legion Template implementation for instanced PvP but also introduce something like a PvP leveling trinket which acts as the main gearing aspect of PvP at max level. It'd have it's own version of AP but limited to only being earned by participating in instanced PvP along with it's own mini talent tree which increases your power and unlocks aura and on use abilities that you can bind one of each to the trinket and it could also allow you to adjust your Template stat allocation slightly. Another thing is it would need to be a mandatory equip in order to queue for PvP thus taking up one slot and leaving the other open for a PvP trinket or weakened PvE trinket and in PvE it would be largely useless except as a capping max level stat stick till you get something better. Also a vendor to work towards getting the PvP standard ilvl gear and trinkets for the current season and even if you get a higher ilvl through PvE it just scales back to the season's max ilvl.

Less restrictive than having to gather two sets of gear, would allow some degree of balance as well as grant players some control and unique progression in PvP that doesn't stop PvE players from taking the plunge similarly doesn't require PvP players to have to raid to get an edge.

[Swnem]

The problem with templates is that you are at the mercy of whatever stats Blizzard decides to give you for your spec. You want to stack vers? Too bad. Here's some mastery.

Wouldnt there be a reason why? Cause if you had vers you would be OP?
This is the problem. People don't want balance, apparantly. They want the gear to win the match for them.

Who cares if its mastery or vers? If everyone is being balanced everyone will have fun. Your stats shouldnt be what you're concerned about in PvP. It should be your play.
It really becomes nothing but a quest to exploit an OP set of stats and bonuses that will give you the win before you set foot in an arena or bg. That isn't PvP. It's theory crafting.
It's beyond me why people want that, but it is what it is. Wich is why i don't bother with PvP anymore. Like premades on random bg's weren't enough of a problem already.

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That's exactly the point. Other competitive games have very little player power attained from anything outside of player skill. But an mmo shouldn't be like every other competitive game. In an mmo player power is gear+skill. In an MMO, not having gear matter really doesn't make sense. That's a huge part of the game. If people don't like gear as a way of enhancing player power, they're going to go play one of the multitudes of other multiplayer games in existence anyways.

It's a huge part of the game, in PvE. PvP isnt an RPG. You want to win PvP before setting foot in the arena? You aren't playing PvP.
But hey, as i say, you enjoy that. I PvP elsewhere. I don't do rigged matches.

[GreenJesus]

Wouldnt there be a reason why? Cause if you had vers you would be OP?
This is the problem. People don't want balance, apparantly. They want the gear to win the match for them.

Who cares if its mastery or vers? If everyone is being balanced everyone will have fun. Your stats shouldnt be what you're concerned about in PvP. It should be your play.
It really becomes nothing but a quest to exploit an OP set of stats and bonuses that will give you the win before you set foot in an arena or bg. That isn't PvP. It's theory crafting.
It's beyond me why people want that, but it is what it is. Wich is why i don't bother with PvP amymore. Like premades on random bg's weren't enough of a problem already.

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It's a huge part of the game, in PvE. PvP isnt an RPG. You want to win PvP before setting foot in the arena? You aren't playing PvP.
But hey, as i say. You enjoy that. I PvP elsewhere. I don't do rigged matches.

Maybe because people don't actually want perfectly balanced PVP? This is an MMO, not counter strike. Blizzard's focus on 3 vs 3 arenas because of esports instead of battlegrounds and large campaigns was possibly their worst direction for an MMO.

[protpaul]

Because this is a gear-based game and if gear meant nothing there would be no incentive to get it for pvpers. Having gear tied to time invested, or tied to skill, is not problematic. A good player will always beat a bad player. Making gear a non-factor just means it takes him longer to do it.

That isn't how this game works... a 360 ilv player will lose to a 470.

Barring a massive difference in skill.

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The problem with templates is that you are at the mercy of whatever stats Blizzard decides to give you for your spec. You want to stack vers? Too bad. Here's some mastery.

Why would that matter?

If anything it would help combat the cheese that was vers stacking corruptions.

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The problem with templates is that you are at the mercy of whatever stats Blizzard decides to give you for your spec. You want to stack vers? Too bad. Here's some mastery.

Why would that matter?

If anything it would help combat the cheese that was vers stacking corruptions.

[RelaZ]

First of, it's waaaaaay too early to tell whether this means PvP specific stats or not. This could literally be anything.

Main comments about this that I'm reading:

A) "Why would you want to have separate sets?". Easy. Because if the game doesn't separate PvP and PvE gear with PvP only stats PvPers will be forced into PvE content to get BiS gear (PvE gear is targetable, has OP item effects and is historically higher ilvl). Remember how you didn't want to farm BotE in PvP? Yeah, PvPers have lived through the equivalent of that, and worse, with every single season for the last two expansions. if you want to PvP, you can handle having a second set in your bag, everyone who's serious about PvP does that already anyway since you want other secondary stats in PvP as compared to PvE. So, no real change. Suck it up.

B) "There should be no stats, just re-use the Legion system! It should all be normalized!" Bad argument. This is an MMORPG, people want to gear up and have advantages (i.e. a green geared character should get slaughtered by a fully epic geared character). Personally, I think it should be easy and quick to catch-up, and gear shouldn't be tied to rating, but the fact that gear needs to matter is obvious. Moreover, the Legion system has obvious flaws with a lack of stat allocation control as well as the fact that the nature of PvE & PvP gear being one and the same ensures that PvE gear is easier to acquire than PvP gear (because otherwise PvErs would feel forced into PvP, and that would get hotfixed immediately). Legion was the same as BfA, a PvE farm for PvPers. It was a horrible system.

C) "But people used PvE trinkets and weapons back when there was PvP Power/Resilience too!". Sure they did, during the TBC-Cata era. In MoP and WoD the PvP Power/Resilience and PvP ilvl system made it so you did not have to farm any PvE gear whatsoever as a PvPer. Given the increased competitive nature of the online gaming world now as compared to back then, those items would be considered mandatory in today's world forcing everyone into PvE (they were almost mandatory back then as well, but it'd be even worse now). It'd be much worse now than back then.

It was never like this, ever.

It was. MoP through WoD.

[Vankhorne]

Most people who prefer PvP in an MMO aren't really looking to be competitive...if they were, they would demand what you suggest here. They want to have some sense of progression so that they can dominate others due to their superior gear. In every other game, this is called griefing, but it is what they want.

Most people who want competitive PvP don't touch games like this.

So you believe PvP players want to dominate others because of gear? Like, the same system we have now on BfA with absurd Corruption effects that make or break your characters? Do you really believe top PvP players like Snutz, Venruki, Cdew, Maldiva, Pikaboo and so many others aren't looking to be competitive?

Players want PvP gear to be the best for PvP because they don't want to be forced to do PvE, period.

Why is it ok to force PvP players to do PvE, but PvE players can do PvE only and be ok with it? Let each part do what they want, and let them have their struggles if they wear gear not designed for that content.

About the griefing, just stop. Don't be pathetic and weak. I started playing on TBC, and at that time you got your ass handed to you when you had 0 resilience and started acquiring you PvP gear. But I wanted to PvP and get better, so what is the problem?

If you are a causual about PvP, PvP gear doesn't affect you. If you are serious about PvP, you will not mind about getting gear for it, so what's the problem in separate the two?

Endure it like a man (or girl) and tough it up.

[alexchaos]

It also increased the barrier to entry.

I prefer PvP to be based around skill and not gear. I should win a fight for being a better player, not a better-geared player. All PvP specific gear does is increase the strength of characters in PvP gear against players in PvE gear.

As a predominantly PvE focused player, I will sometimes venture into PvP for loot. If it then only awards PvP specific gear, I won't bother since it's not a main activity of mine. That type of system would reduce the amount of "content" for players like me.

I don't think there has been a single patch since Legion came out that had PvP gear better than PvE or more easily obtainable than PvE gear. So if you are talking about WoD PvP gear, you're talking about 4+ years ago. I do think tho that WoD's PvP gear which increased ilvl in PvP was great.

[Trend]

So you believe PvP players want to dominate others because of gear? Like, the same system we have now on BfA with absurd Corruption effects that make or break your characters? Do you really believe top PvP players like Snutz, Venruki, Cdew, Maldiva, Pikaboo and so many others aren't looking to be competitive?

Players want PvP gear to be the best for PvP because they don't want to be forced to do PvE, period.

Why is it ok to force PvP players to do PvE, but PvE players can do PvE only and be ok with it? Let each part do what they want, and let them have their struggles if they wear gear not designed for that content.

About the griefing, just stop. Don't be pathetic and weak. I started playing on TBC, and at that time you got your ass handed to you when you had 0 resilience and started acquiring you PvP gear. But I wanted to PvP and get better, so what is the problem?

If you are a causual about PvP, PvP gear doesn't affect you. If you are serious about PvP, you will not mind about getting gear for it, so what's the problem in separate the two?

Endure it like a man (or girl) and tough it up.

You are confusing unrelated ideas. The quote you are responding to was around the idea having gear not matter at all. You go on a rant about not wanting to do PvE but clearly you're still thinking of it as a gear progression.

[kenn9530]

Recent alpha datamining hints it may come back. Nothing is certain but i dearly hope so. This way, pvp gear can be its own progression, not subservient to mythic+ or rating, and can also allow for strong catchup gear from battlegrounds for people starting in patches that don't wanna raid.

Please blizzard, make this happen, its a giant step in fixing bfa's trainwreck reward system and can make bgs meaningful. Pvp should be the way to gear pvp.

In PvP skill is the only thing that should matter, if you have to rely on having better gear than another player then your not as good as you think. All players should start of equal footing and the better skilled player should win most of the time.

WoW is mostly a PvE game and there is only a small minority that is focused on PvP, blizz eventually force PvE only players to PvP at some point so why should they be at a disadvantage from gear.

[enigma77]

God no.

Pvp gear once again being useless in pve is not something I'm looking forward to.

[Lazuli]

Recent alpha datamining hints it may come back. Nothing is certain but i dearly hope so. This way, pvp gear can be its own progression, not subservient to mythic+ or rating, and can also allow for strong catchup gear from battlegrounds for people starting in patches that don't wanna raid.

Please blizzard, make this happen, its a giant step in fixing bfa's trainwreck reward system and can make bgs meaningful. Pvp should be the way to gear pvp.

That would be amazing news.

[ashblond]

PvP only stats/gear will not come back.

[Vankhorne]

You are confusing unrelated ideas. The quote you are responding to was around the idea having gear not matter at all. You go on a rant about not wanting to do PvE but clearly you're still thinking of it as a gear progression.

Look to the post I was answering to and look at how it started. Sounded to me like a butthurt PvE player trying to insult and diminish PvP players just because they want PvP gear to matter for PvP.

It's 2020. It's unrealistic to expect an MMO to not have gear progression and will this NEVER happen to WoW. The closest we had to it was PvP templates, where gear mattered far less, but still had some effect. Even then, it was discarded. PvP stats is the only solution to not force players in PvE and keep gear progression.

[Piamonte]

That's by far the worst PvP model. Good players getting better gear so that worse player are behind both gear and skill.

what?? It´s perfect, it motivates you to be better and you are rewarded for being good.

[SirCowdog]

Resilience will fix PVP.

[dcc626]

Why community thinks its coming back from just one spell that might as well be just some placeholder?

because people are sheep and believe everything they read. doesnt matter. if it does come back we will start hearing form the "i cant believe i have to get 2 sets of gear if i want to pvp and pve!!!" crowd

[kaminaris]

because people are sheep and believe everything they read. doesnt matter. if it does come back we will start hearing form the "i cant believe i have to get 2 sets of gear if i want to pvp and pve!!!" crowd

And if it doesn't come back people be like: "B-B-But blizzard promised!!111Oneone"

[Th3Scourge]

didn't legion work like this, or was it WOD? I don't see why gear even plays a role in pvp...

And that's why it was far and away the shittest xpac for pvp. Having zero input over your character was horrible.

I like going in to pvp with mythic-level gear and crushing people. It's been like this since Vanilla, I think adding pvp power back is a good thing to reduce the dependency on pve-acquired items, but those will still be strong.

If anything, it just increases time /played as pvp power items will likely be stronger the higher ilvl they go

[Djuntas]

Yeah they tried that but couldn't ever get the templates balanced properly. Some classes sucked completely and some were stupidly op no matter what they did. So they did away with it in BFA.

Of all the people that qouted me so far, this makes the most sense. Because it seems like most pvp'eres just want to twink then. Thats at least what I got...I understand gear plays a role in MMO's, but I was never a fan of it in pvp...So I figured people were happy with pvp templates, all was good, but I guess not...Hope maybe a happy medium can become a thing. Also I really like PvP gear for PvE...It has often been very good, say in TBC I tanked Black temple with pvp gear, or in WOD I used a lot of pvp gear...granted i dont raid or do much pve in wow these days.