Destruction in Shadowlands - Floppable or Unstoppable?

[Darvaeh]

Hey all. LONG time lurker, 'since release' WoW nerd here. First time posting on MMO

I've been maining Destruction lock for a REALLY long time lol.

Always seems the same - start new Xpac weak as fuh, but by the end (like now, here at the end of BfA) we're actual gods (it's sort of funny).

Everything I'm hearing about Destro in Shadowlands seems to be the same. We're going to start off on the absolute bottom of every totem pole?

In terms of impressions I've seen...they fall into two categories.

1) Meh!
2) Not much change at all.

Anyone by chance have something more to add?

Cheers!

[Saltysquidoon]

Destro has historically benefited a lot from borrowed power. Given we don't know exactly what some of that borrowed power (leggos and soulbinds) will do yet no one can say for sure.

So maybe? The point is destro has a solid (if a bit simple) core before borrowed power so that puts it leagues ahead of a lot of specs already.

[enigma77]

There is no need to change Destruction, it works well and feels good to play.

Any change they make is just going to be bad this point. However, we have some talents (Soulfire/Shadowburn) that are trash, those need to be buffed.

[FelPlague]

Hey all. LONG time lurker, 'since release' WoW nerd here. First time posting on MMO

I've been maining Destruction lock for a REALLY long time lol.

Always seems the same - start new Xpac weak as fuh, but by the end (like now, here at the end of BfA) we're actual gods (it's sort of funny).

Everything I'm hearing about Destro in Shadowlands seems to be the same. We're going to start off on the absolute bottom of every totem pole?

In terms of impressions I've seen...they fall into two categories.

1) Meh!
2) Not much change at all.

Anyone by chance have something more to add?

Cheers!

Shadowlands just got their affliction changes. we are likely to get demo and destro ones soon.

but destyro is pretty good

1. necrolords ability works super well with destro, because of fire n brimestone.

2. destro has gotten abit more stable. In BFA as is, destro's dps is pitiful, its fucking pathetic.... UNTIL they infernal, then it spikes to like 5x higher then normal.
In shadowlands we are getting a bit more back, infernal is still a big dps increase, but its not so high that it makes the spec useless outside of the infernal window.

3. curse of exhaustion... fucking insane for destro pvp, finally a slow again, so we can get those mother fucker melee away from us so we can cast for 1 god danm second

4. same as 3, but howl of terror.

Overall we wont know how destro is until the destro specific changes come, as so far only affliction has been done.

[Gaidax]

If things stay as they are it will be same as BFA - weak in the beginning and snowballing hard by last patch.

I, personally, think they really should do almost no changes, except for talent balance and maybe smoothing the scaling curve a bit, so we start a bit stronger then the almost traditional start of expansion state for Destruction.

I would like them to find a way to drop Infernal CD to 2 mins, whether it's with legendary items or talents.

Overall the Supremacy play is not ideal, it's a lot of fun when it's up and you just blast, but then you crash harder than a crack addict. However, I'd rather keep what we have and what is guaranteed to work (even if that's eventually) instead of doing some crazy experiments with unknown outcomes.

[Darvaeh]

Wow, I really appreciate the replies so far. Thanks! Great info and diverse feelings (some mirroring my own). Regardless, I'm excited to see the next chapter of my Destro lock unfold. So far it seems most of the excitement is coming from Aff -- hence why I'm suddenly seeing so many in Rando BGs again lol, prepping for the release.

[Rooskie1993]

Shadowlands just got their affliction changes. we are likely to get demo and destro ones soon.

but destyro is pretty good

1. necrolords ability works super well with destro, because of fire n brimestone.

2. destro has gotten abit more stable. In BFA as is, destro's dps is pitiful, its fucking pathetic.... UNTIL they infernal, then it spikes to like 5x higher then normal.
In shadowlands we are getting a bit more back, infernal is still a big dps increase, but its not so high that it makes the spec useless outside of the infernal window.

3. curse of exhaustion... fucking insane for destro pvp, finally a slow again, so we can get those mother fucker melee away from us so we can cast for 1 god danm second

4. same as 3, but howl of terror.

Overall we wont know how destro is until the destro specific changes come, as so far only affliction has been done.

you won't be taking howl of terror over mortal coil vsing melee as destro, double coil is too powerful compared to a fear.

destro seems the same as live atm from what i've seen but sort of like fire mage being gutted with the removal of azerite and essences.

destro needs a talent like aff got to make infernal 2 min CD.

ngl I am an aff main and the aff changes look sick but when I have to play destro I hate when most of my damage is done in an infernal window, they need to revert changes they did in BFA and buff incinerate dmg.

[FelPlague]

you won't be taking howl of terror over mortal coil vsing melee as destro, double coil is too powerful compared to a fear.

destro seems the same as live atm from what i've seen but sort of like fire mage being gutted with the removal of azerite and essences.

destro needs a talent like aff got to make infernal 2 min CD.

ngl I am an aff main and the aff changes look sick but when I have to play destro I hate when most of my damage is done in an infernal window, they need to revert changes they did in BFA and buff incinerate dmg.

you know whats more strong then double coil? 5x coil that lasts 8x longer.

[Gaidax]

Nobody in their right mind will take Howl of Terror instead of Mortal Coil as Destruction. Neither for PvE nor for PvP.

Like maybe some super niche situation where point blank AoE longer fear for more targets with a cast time on it is somehow better than instant double Mortal Coil with 20% heal.

If Howl was instant, then there would be something to talk about. But at 1.5 sec cast time? Nope.

[Shandalar]

Destro needs just talent tuning, 2 min infernal cd (may be via talent, but will be permapicked), and some tweaks to the aoe (more dmg to Rain of Fire) and will be good. The most worried I am is Demon.

[enigma77]

Nobody in their right mind will take Howl of Terror instead of Mortal Coil as Destruction. Neither for PvE nor for PvP.

Like maybe some super niche situation where point blank AoE longer fear for more targets with a cast time on it is somehow better than instant double Mortal Coil with 20% heal.

If Howl was instant, then there would be something to talk about. But at 1.5 sec cast time? Nope.

I really don't understand why everything Warlocks do must have a cast time. It should be instant cast, just like Shadowfury.

The last thing anybody wants to do when focused is to have to cast your defensive spell...

[Roujeaux]

Not a fan of the current Destro iteration. They would need to bring back more of the balanceable MoP/WoD Destro elements (execute Shadowburn, flat damage Sacrifice, baseline Dark Soul. etc.) before I'd ever consider touching my Warlock again. Expansion zones look exquisite as usual though.

[ShadowOfThePast]

Not a fan of the current Destro iteration. They would need to bring back more of the balanceable MoP/WoD Destro elements (execute Shadowburn, flat damage Sacrifice, baseline Dark Soul. etc.) before I'd ever consider touching my Warlock again. Expansion zones look exquisite as usual though.

Pretty much couldn't agree more. Been warlock main since I started somewhat in the mid TBC and the last 2 expansions have been horrible to level and pretty much the "feel" of the spec too has been somehow not fun. What I've seen so far seems like I'll have to atleast level SL as affli instead of destro because I don't want to feel like a gutted piece of sh*t for the 3rd expansion in a row..

I miss so many things we used to have access to as destro and when I heard about the unpruning I got slightly excited..only to get some curses (kinda yay) and corruption (with a freaking cast time..seriously!?) for destro. I wanted things like nether protection back.. or backlash. Fel Flame..!! Abilities baseline that never should have made into talents because they're too mandatory. Like Demonic Portal..burning rush.. and our 2min CD Dark Soul: which used to be spec specific back then also with haste to affli and crit for destruction etc..Fire and Brimstone as a toggleable ability.

ALso think our aoe needs some seriousbuffs so that either RoF needs to go to 2 shards or be buffed significantly to justify the 3 shard cost for it's crappy dmg. And don't even get me going on the cataclysm wich does good dmg but again feels like a spell that should be baseline for our aoe instead of a kinda mandatory talent..


But what do I know..only played warlock for 13+ years..

- - - Updated - - -

I look at mages and think why the f*ck are they getting all the stuff without some ridiculous resource cost or need to spend a talent for them or something. Like this Focus magic thing. They only buffed it even further to make it more viable or compelling or whatever. Where's our DARK INTENT then!??! If mages get their ally buff back why can't we get ours back too or do we have to pick it out of talents like 99% of everything else.

For the ones that are too new to the Mastery of the dark arts to remember what Dark Intent was (or just too old to remember ) it was as follows :

You link yourself with the targeted friendly target, increasing both of your haste by 3%. When you or the linked target gains a critical periodic damage or healing effect, the other gains an increased 3% increased periodic damage and healing lasting for 7 sec. Stacks up to 3 times. Dark Intent lasts for 30 min.

it was later changed to spell pwr and multistrike buff for the whole party/raid and later after that removed completely in Legion pre patch I think.

[Sylar Hao]

I'm sick and tired of relying on burrowed power from mid to end of expansion to make destro feel fun and strong.

Is it really so hard to bake some of the Legion artifact talents or some of the essences/azerites into the spec or into some talents so we have a smoother and more fun experience at start and not so stupidly strong at the end?

Or even better: bring MoP Destro back. It was fun and smooth from min 1 of prepatch to the end of the expansion.

[Gaidax]

But what do I know..only played warlock for 13+ years..

And?

I play this warlock since mid Vanilla, I switched to it full main in TBC and my opinion is vastly different from yours.

No, I don't want Shadowburn to be a thing again at all - it resulted in WoD Destruction being only decent literally when encounter was packed with adds. I don't need "toggle-able" F&B, current F&B is fine as is it is mechanically - it could only use a power bump, which it will get.

Baseline Dark Soul and flat damage Sacrifice are sure good, but I think Blizz should just remove Dark Soul for good and bake it into Summon Infernal anyway.

I believe that current Destruction iteration is literally the best we had for many years all the way since the wild days of MoP, where we were overtuned as fuck. It has its issues, but mechanically it is setup in such a way that we're guaranteed to be eventually good.

It still has Havoc as a crutch, but it's a MUCH better crutch than Havoc AND Shadowburn, because instead of needing cleave AND a lot adds that die all over, you just need cleave. It has no trash crap meaningless spells that have nothing to do with spec like that soup of spells we had in Cata, where we literally had throw our entire spellbook, while juggling plates, at things because every shitty dot was another 5% DPS increase.

And no, I don't want Dark Intent - it's exact kind of shit I don't want. Last thing we need is relying on other players to have our full power, I'm not a frikkin' paladin stick that shit to those walking lightbulbs not me.

[Lucrece]

Just delete current grimoire of supremacy and put that power back into our baseline spells.

Change our current cd's so infernal on top of its effect gives 15-20% increase crit damage for its duration. Demonic Tyrant could give the same but for mastery as well as Darkglare for affliction.

Voila, destro is no longer a backloaded spec anymore.

Could probably do with increasing Rain of Fire's radius to the old Starfall from BfA.

[valky94]

Shadowlands just got their affliction changes. we are likely to get demo and destro ones soon.

but destyro is pretty good

1. necrolords ability works super well with destro, because of fire n brimestone.

no matter how good it is, as long as cataclysm exists in the same tier noone is gonna take FnB

[FelPlague]

no matter how good it is, as long as cataclysm exists in the same tier noone is gonna take FnB

hahah you say that
but literally not true
FnB plus decimating bolt curb stomps cataclysm into the fucking ground.
my dude
aoe Chaos bolt
but it does like 20% more damage.
3 times every 45 seconds.
also generates soulshards instead of spending soulshards
and casts faster.

[valky94]

hahah you say that
but literally not true
FnB plus decimating bolt curb stomps cataclysm into the fucking ground.
my dude
aoe Chaos bolt
but it does like 20% more damage.
3 times every 45 seconds.

you do realise numbers are nowhere close to final atm, and cataclysm is just too good as a tool for 99% of scenarios you encounter

and its only for one incenerate every 45 sec, which seems underwhelming

[Lucrece]

hahah you say that
but literally not true
FnB plus decimating bolt curb stomps cataclysm into the fucking ground.
my dude
aoe Chaos bolt
but it does like 20% more damage.
3 times every 45 seconds.
also generates soulshards instead of spending soulshards
and casts faster.

You don't do the comparison against cataclysm but against cataclysm+ channel demonfire which is the usual combination for aoe.