Destruction in Shadowlands - Floppable or Unstoppable?

[valky94]

You don't do the comparison against cataclysm but against cataclysm+ channel demonfire which is the usual combination for aoe.

not only that, for example on vexiona, being able to dot all 5+ adds with one spell compared to wasting 5+ GCD on manaully casting immolate is just too good, same goes for m+ aswell

[Amariw]

I'm sick and tired of relying on burrowed power from mid to end of expansion to make destro feel fun and strong.

Is it really so hard to bake some of the Legion artifact talents or some of the essences/azerites into the spec or into some talents so we have a smoother and more fun experience at start and not so stupidly strong at the end?

Or even better: bring MoP Destro back. It was fun and smooth from min 1 of prepatch to the end of the expansion.

Bolded for fucking truth. Till this day i dont know why they changed anything there, beside many reigning in the CC that everyone had too much of, locks included.

[Lucrece]

not only that, for example on vexiona, being able to dot all 5+ adds with one spell compared to wasting 5+ GCD on manaully casting immolate is just too good, same goes for m+ aswell

It's basically our version of eyebeam every 30 seconds on top of significantly increasing our shard generation through 5 immolates on 5 targets, which means more Havoc chaosbolts into the pack as well.

Though to be honest we're mainly having this discussion because Rain of Fire is such a horrendously undertuned spell, both in radius and damage for its shard cost.

My other desired change would be RoF be turned like Blizzard, but a shard generator component instead of costing shards, with increased radius.

I don't understand how it has remained garbage for 2 xpacs straight and they have done nothing about it, but that's Blizzard class designs post-WoD for you. At least in Legion it was forgivable because the artifact system was so comprehensive to make up for the deficits in class revamp.

But Shadowlands is basically BfA redux, the covenant abilities+soulbinds are still shallow imitations of Legion artifacts, and they are spending ridiculous amounts of assets into Torghast abilities instead of making the base class/spec enjoyable in all game modes and not just their new xpac gimmick.

[FelPlague]

you do realise numbers are nowhere close to final atm, and cataclysm is just too good as a tool for 99% of scenarios you encounter

and its only for one incenerate every 45 sec, which seems underwhelming

"one incenerate every 45 seconds" no its not, literally do some research before ya talk shit mate?

If you wanna talk about how the class is gunna be, actually look at how the class is gunna be.

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You don't do the comparison against cataclysm but against cataclysm+ channel demonfire which is the usual combination for aoe.

lolol cata+ channel demonfire? no one takes that, yes its sweet, but you lose darksoul which lines up with infernal, which is too fucking perfect mate.

[valky94]

"one incenerate every 45 seconds" no its not, literally do some research before ya talk shit mate?

If you wanna talk about how the class is gunna be, actually look at how the class is gunna be.

i was going by what says on wowhead and it says "increasing the damage of your next Incinerate" which means 1 incenerate cast

[klogaroth]

lolol cata+ channel demonfire? no one takes that, yes its sweet, but you lose darksoul which lines up with infernal, which is too fucking perfect mate.

It more or less lines up now due to vision and crashing chaos. It will not in Shadowlands unless there are changes.

Whether we take channel demonfire will come down to tuning and encounters. It's not necessarily a default pick before we have final numbers and have seen raids and dungeons in max level testing, and a bunch of systems like legos not even in.

[FelPlague]

i was going by what says on wowhead and it says "increasing the damage of your next Incinerate" which means 1 incenerate cast

Maybe you should read just that tiny bit more...

"Your next 3..."


as i said from the start, 3 incinerates every 45 seconds.

logged into the alpha just to grab the screenshot.

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It more or less lines up now due to vision and crashing chaos. It will not in Shadowlands unless there are changes.

Whether we take channel demonfire will come down to tuning and encounters. The synergy between infernal and dark soul isn't nearly as strong as things stand to make it the default choice before any tuning is done.

We are getting talents to reduce the cooldown of infernal and darkglare to line up with stuff like for example, dark soul.


And yes, literally the synergy between infernal and dark soul has been strong enough to make it the default choice the entire expansion. destro does ALL of its damage during infernal, and if you can buff that even more then well.

[klogaroth]

We are getting talents to reduce the cooldown of infernal and darkglare to line up with stuff like for example, dark soul.

Has this actually been confirmed, or is it just your speculation based on the darkglare talent?

[FelPlague]

Has this actually been confirmed, or is it just your speculation based on the darkglare talent?

Technically not confirmed, but blizz said they wanted to bring in stuff together through talents, and showed us that with darkglare, if they alos plan to for destro is possible, but again.

aoe chaos bolts my dude, who gives a fuck about those 2 talents.

[valky94]

snip

i was looking at their covenant guide, not my fault its not updated https://prnt.sc/szmyus

[FelPlague]

i was looking at their covenant guide, not my fault its not updated https://prnt.sc/szmyus

it was never 1, seems they never had it propper.

[klogaroth]

Technically not confirmed, but blizz said they wanted to bring in stuff together through talents, and showed us that with darkglare, if they alos plan to for destro is possible, but again.

aoe chaos bolts my dude, who gives a fuck about those 2 talents.

For all we know at this point decimating bolt will be tuned down and other things tuned up. We can know what's fun to play and suggest that those playstyles are tuned to be numerically good, but it's way too early to lock in a choice.

[valky94]

Has this actually been confirmed, or is it just your speculation based on the darkglare talent?

it hasnt, aff is getting a talent that reduces darkglare by a min, but i still think that haunt will be better overall, unless you can stack darkglare with some 2min cd trinkets, or if you can get 1 aditional darkglare out if boss killtime allows or on multidot fights

[FelPlague]

it hasnt, aff is getting a talent that reduces darkglare by a min, but i still think that haunt will be better overall, unless you can stack darkglare with some 2min cd trinkets, or if you can get 1 aditional darkglare out if boss killtime allows

Why would you take haunt anymore since affliction is finally a multidot spec again?
And especially since now darkglare can stack with oh look again, dark soul.

[valky94]

Why would you take haunt anymore since affliction is finally a multidot spec again?
And especially since now darkglare can stack with oh look again, dark soul.

we dont know how things will be tuned, maybe dark soul wont be the best talent in the final row, maybe GoSac will the best talent in the 45 lvl row

if you end up with a 3 min cd trinket, its probably gonna be better to have a 3 min darkglare than a 2 min

[FelPlague]

we dont know how things will be tuned, maybe dark soul wont be the best talent in the final row, maybe GoSac will the best talent in the 45 lvl row

if you end up with a 3 min cd trinket, its probably gonna be better to have a 3 min darkglare than a 2 min

so then why are you guys here arguing in the defence of something, then the second its pointed out wrong revert to "Well we dont now how it will all be balanced in the end so it doesent matter"

So why were you talking about it in the first place?

Of course, we dont know how any of this will turn out in the end, but op is talking about right now, and right now this is the way it is. so maybe step off? and lol gosac best talanet in the row? yeah sure...

[klogaroth]

Somewhat away from destro, but it looks that the intention for haunt is pure single target. The dot extension component of darkglare looks to be much more focused around enhancing multi-dotting in SL, rather than extending a big UA stack like right now.

[valky94]

snip

and i forgot to add that UA stacking isnt a thing in SL anymore, which causes darkglare to lose value compared to how powerful it is in BfA

and ur the one whos saying "X ability will the best, everything else is trash"

[FelPlague]

Nobody in their right mind will take Howl of Terror instead of Mortal Coil as Destruction. Neither for PvE nor for PvP.

Like maybe some super niche situation where point blank AoE longer fear for more targets with a cast time on it is somehow better than instant double Mortal Coil with 20% heal.

If Howl was instant, then there would be something to talk about. But at 1.5 sec cast time? Nope.

see you didnt qoute me

1. it effects 5x (or 2.5x if you havoc) targets
2. it has a 5 second shorter CD
3. it has a 1.5 sec cast, but is heavily effected by haste, at only 14% in basic leveling greens its reduced to 1.2
4. it has a 20 second flee on it, compared to the 3 second flee. so yes in lets say 2v2 arena for sure mortal coil is better, but M+? You got a huge pack and you need to stop them, this is great, of course its fear so you need tobe careful, but great way to make sure you can get a rez and heal a tank that just died, or stop a ton of spell casts.

5. point blank? its 10 yards, not really point blank., that is the range of a darkfury shadowfury.

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and i forgot to add that UA stacking isnt a thing in SL anymore, which causes darkglare to lose value compared to how powerful it is in BfA

Except darkglare is far more powerful now as the spec is once again a multidotter, allowing you to put 3-5 dots on tons of targets, and then extend them with darkglare, then explode them all constantly over the next like 10 seconds with Malefic Rapture

and ur the one whos saying "X ability will the best, everything else is trash"

no matter how good it is, as long as cataclysm exists in the same tier noone is gonna take FnB

and maybe you should get your memeory tested mate, "Your the only one saying x ability will be the best, everything else is trash"
When this was your response to me saying "Decimating bolt works amazing with fire and brimestone"

[valky94]

snip

ye i said that because that was the case for 4 years now, and it will stay so in SL unless blizzard A) give us Cata baseline B) nerfs it into the ground