horrible horrific vision concept...

[Tziva]

I think a significant reason for the divide between the people who love visions and the people who hate them comes down to class/spec. The disparity between some specs and others is can be enormous. Regardless of what you think of visions, I don't think it's very good design if I can mash buttons on a hunter alt I don't know how to play and breeze through the things, while it is much slower and tedious on my well-geared main just because of the difference in playstyle and toolkit between the two. Mobility, CC break effects, AoE strength, pets, stuns, interrupts, burst, etc, all make a big difference in how obnoxious the run is going to be.

My rogue is about 10 ilvls lower than my shaman but I can do a 5 mask easier and in a third of the time (and could before I had fully finished the talent tree), often without using self rez or any charges. Between being melee and having just a lot of better tools for dealing with the vision mechanics, it is soooo much of a better experience on the former than the latter. I legitimately enjoy visions on my rogue, and I don't on my shaman unless I'm with others, and I don't think the difference is that I am somehow magically a better player when I log into the rogue. (and it's certainly not because ele is a more challenging spec lol) It just have better everything to deal with all aspects of visions.

So yeah, I get if you're an ele shaman or a destro lock and you hate them or you're a DH or hunter and you love them. And while I agree it should never be as easy to do a vision as a solo healer than a hunter, and that some classes are unavoidably going to have advantages in some situations, I do think that how big that disparity is between specs reflects some poorly implemented design choices (likewise for the tuning between solo vs a group, but that's another topic entirely I think). If they couldn't try to keep a level playing field via tuning and mechanics choices alone, they could have used the vision talent trees to try to make up for some weakness by giving class-specific options that were more powerful for the classes that needed a bit more help (hypothetically: shorter interrupt cooldowns for casters, casting while moving, etc) and weaker ones for those that didn't.

Visions had a lot of potential, I just think the final result ended up falling short and consequently, I think there's a pretty heavy correlation between opinion on visions and classes played.

[crakerjack]

As Squirtle already said: your screen gets more purple, mostly the edges tho. It's all about experience - when you've done many many visions (like I did, with many classes) you will almost instantly react to anything that happens, without thinking twice. I still get hit by some stuff that could be avoided, but as I exactly know what/how much I can pull with any class, it usually works out. I guess I only got one or two failed runs since I ran 5 masked visions starting with my dk.
It really comes down to experience, knowing what you can/should dodge, what can be ignored, how many enemies/groups you can pull.

I can totally understand if visions are "hard" for some people, but most times this is about not knowing all mechanics/what to pull.

Having this much exp, I know exactly every pull I actually can do with any of my very different geared characters. I know my 420 mage can only do "this much" while pulling "this and that" together or not together, while my dh is able to do way more, quicker with bigger pulls. Since I unlocked Gift with the DH, I can savely say that he is able to 5 mask now with ilvl 440, as he was able to 2 mask without Gift-Talent before

Oh I agree if you practice it enough times, you get the hang of it. I personally don't believe anything in WoW PvE is hard. Not saying it's easy, but PvE in general is pretty easy. The only times I've noticed purple around the edge of my screen is when I'm low on sanity, but again I've probably done 10 visions all throughout 8.3 mainly because I don't find it intriguing.

[Bloodyleech]

Oh I agree if you practice it enough times, you get the hang of it. I personally don't believe anything in WoW PvE is hard. Not saying it's easy, but PvE in general is pretty easy. The only times I've noticed purple around the edge of my screen is when I'm low on sanity, but again I've probably done 10 visions all throughout 8.3 mainly because I don't find it intriguing.

When you got low sanity, it's really hard to see the effect from the incoming circle, yes. You can only see it when you got enough experience with the mechanic itself, otherwise there is no way you could recognise it at all.
Well, there are people that like them and people that dont like them, to each their own. If you are on EU alliance, we could do one or two "training" runs, where I could tell you any important thing, if you want.

[ClassicPeon]

that, do not change, that gameplay is stupid af...

I dont believe you. If you did it 5 mask a long time ago it only gets easier from there.

Ez content that you dont have to do is not something you make forum posts to complain about while seeming angry

[dacoolist]

...I can not even describe how concept of horrific vissions is poor, horrible and annoying. How the fck jumping, running like moron, loosing control of your char, can be fun for somebody is beyond me. That type of things have nothing with skills and good and smart gameplay. It is annoying and stupid as fck. If I want playing that kind of shit, I will turn on shity nintento and play shity mario games or whatever they called....

P.S just for information, from long time ago I have all mounts, pets, toys, mog items, title and all achivments, so it is not that I am noob, just think concept is bad and not fun at all!!!...

Link your armory fam

I personally don't mind them - I thought at first it actually felt awesome because it was so hard to do them, and I failed SOOOOO many times from doing dumb stuff.

Now with guides and Corruption resist being so huge, you can pretty much just go ham in there with BIS Corruptions and beat a 5 mask without even using an orb, it's crazy

For me, I like to take it easy, I typically use 1 - 2 orbs trying to pick up all the chests and just literally walk everywhere in the horrific because I'm old and slow like that since I've played wow so many years

To each their own, some people hated Challenge tower, challenge modes, pvp etc - it's just something different is all fam

[Relapses]

The only thing that's annoying about them is the fact that if you fail you lose a resource that you cannot infinitely grind. It discourages you from challenging yourself because you don't want to "waste" the resource. Kind of silly, imo.

[Jastall]

The worst part about Visions is the repetition. We're now at a point where we know them by heart, it's only two layouts with the exact same enemies every time and the only thing that changes are what annoyances are thrown our way. I often forgo 5 masks now and just got for 3-4 to get my core in 10 minutes and be done with this nonsense. I oly maintain two characters and it gets annoying, I can't imagine 4+. Torghast at least seems much better with more levels, more enemies, more layouts, and giving you different powers and buffs per run rather than adding CC effects up the whazoo.

As for said CC effects, literally all of them are avoidable. Fire jump only occurs when you move, bugs are easily rid of by a jump, void zones can be stepped out. Split Personality IS annoying as hell, but unless you're doing a 5 mask with a character that doesn't have great gear you can eat it from time to time and be fine.

[Tziva]

The difference between the "low sanity" purple and the "disorient ring incoming" purple is the texture on the edges. One is wispy and one is fuzzy. It's very easy to confuse the two if you're at a sanity range where you'd get both if you're not specifically looking or haven't had enough experience to distinguish. I think it's kinda dumb they didn't make them different colours but it is possible to tell which is which.

That said, I think it's a little disingenuous to say there's literally no RNG in visions. Sometimes you can get two mechanics (whether vision or mob) lining up at shitty times together that would be otherwise fine on their own (say, a knockback mechanic at the same time as the disorient ring). Yeah, you can avoid getting thrown by hotfeet if you don't move or studderstep but it's also not realistic if you're not acknowledging that sometimes you have to move from something and fast or that you don't actually always have time to sit around and wait for it to wear off every time it applies. You can also get stuck in places where the opening to the disorient ring is inaccessible. It also functions poorly in water and uneven terrain; sometimes you can walk under it, othertimes it will trigger even if it is way above or below you. Sometimes moving out of one mechanic is not possible unless you move into another. The dynamic nature of visions and the way the timers work mean that you can encounter issues like this.

Obviously knowing the mechanics, preplanning and careful positioning can drastically minimise this, and that's really the key to doing visions successfully, but I don't think it's entirely honest to say that all of it is always 100% avoidable. Some things can't be fully anticipated -- maybe you thought you'd be entirely out of that hallway or fight by the time the mechanic came up again but you got really unlucky with procs and you're still stuck there -- and some things can't be fully mitigated by planning. I won't deny that if you know what you're doing, and are mostly handling things correctly it is extremely unlikely that these things will happen enough to actually impact the success of your run, but I also think it's insincere to say perfection is always possible.

[ClassicPeon]

The difference between the "low sanity" purple and the "disorient ring incoming" purple is the texture on the edges. One is wispy and one is fuzzy. It's very easy to confuse the two if you're at a sanity range where you'd get both if you're not specifically looking or haven't had enough experience to distinguish. I think it's kinda dumb they didn't make them different colours but it is possible to tell which is which.

That said, I think it's a little disingenuous to say there's literally no RNG in visions. Sometimes you can get two mechanics (whether vision or mob) lining up at shitty times together that would be otherwise fine on their own (say, a knockback mechanic at the same time as the disorient ring). Yeah, you can avoid getting thrown by hotfeet if you don't move or studderstep but it's also not realistic if you're not acknowledging that sometimes you have to move from something and fast or that you don't actually always have time to sit around and wait for it to wear off every time it applies. You can also get stuck in places where the opening to the disorient ring is inaccessible. It also functions poorly in water and uneven terrain; sometimes you can walk under it, othertimes it will trigger even if it is way above or below you. Sometimes moving out of one mechanic is not possible unless you move into another. The dynamic nature of visions and the way the timers work mean that you can encounter issues like this.

Obviously knowing the mechanics, preplanning and careful positioning can drastically minimise this, and that's really the key to doing visions successfully, but I don't think it's entirely honest to say that all of it is always 100% avoidable. Some things can't be fully anticipated -- maybe you thought you'd be entirely out of that hallway or fight by the time the mechanic came up again but you got really unlucky with procs and you're still stuck there -- and some things can't be fully mitigated by planning. I won't deny that if you know what you're doing, and are mostly handling things correctly it is extremely unlikely that these things will happen enough to actually impact the success of your run, but I also think it's insincere to say perfection is always possible.

I agree. Perfection isnt always possible. But getting through it should be possible even with bad rng every time(if you have some experience and the research done and such)

[[KJ]]

i really enjoy visions. some of the best fun i've had is learning the optimal routes, which mobs to cc/kill first, when they are likely to use their abilities, how to avoid the damage. it can all be done with a bit of patience. Its also very gated by your cloak and research.

Gift and the elite bonus is a must for mask runs. Get some ghastly ghoulash also.

I miss the excitement of going for that 5 mask. i have it on farm now and its as fun as anything on farm, some weeks are more difficult than others. This is one of the easier weeks..

Getting caught is not very forgiving especially if it's by touch of the abyss as a train of other stuff is likely to follow.

[Ladey Gags]

Yeah they’re petty shit. The design around dodging shit every 5 seconds comes from current game design catering to ADHD addicts who are unable to stop and appreciate what they’re doing. They crave ridiculous challenge because it silences their overactive mentally ill minds that they want to be free of. Blizzard and most game designers now cater to this type of gamer. No longer are games immersive experiences, they are overly produced drugs.

[Spacewalrus2010]

ok...are you natural stupid or you train stupidity every day...this is about CONCEPT not about difficulty...jesus!!!...

"That type of things have nothing with skills and good and smart gameplay."

Literally one of the lines in your OP. People are telling you it is, and that you need to do better at avoiding shit.

Move the goalpost if you want, but difficulty was part of your initial post.

[cparle87]

The only one I'm not a fan of is the one where you get encircled by yourself and have to run out a specific way. It's just tedious and annoying because if you're on a mount, there's little to no reaction time, especially if you're jumping and it spawns as you're in the air. The other ones I can deal with, but that one is just pure trash.

The edges of your screen go purple a full 5 seconds before the copies appear. You have plenty of time to get away from a wall so the safe spot can't spawn inside it, get out of whatever you immediately need to avoid, then come to a stop, wait for the circles to appear, then calmly go through the circle and resume your run.

- - - Updated - - -

ok...are you natural stupid or you train stupidity every day...this is about CONCEPT not about difficulty...jesus!!!...

Yeah, you're still wrong. It's not a bad concept. You're just complaining because you want to complain. The fact that you attack everyone who dares to disagree with you if proof that you're not here to discuss anything. You're here to vent and attack anyone who doesn't bandwagon with you. That's not what forums are for.

[Dristereau]

I didn't hate them at the start but they are very repetitive and time consuming. I don't want to do Visions but the Cloak/Cores are upgrades I feel you should get and there's also Gem sockets and Echoes. If you want BIS gear and corruptions unfortunately Visions are needed. I have eight Characters with Rank 15 Cloak and sometimes don't do Visions on all them because it's boring. I just want to do M+ (15's or higher), Raid (Mythic/Heroic) and PVP, not grind Sockets/Cores/Echoes from Visions.

Also I cannot stand Scorched Feet. I absolutely hate the mechanic because it's frustrating and there's no play around it. It just happens and it's infuriating. I don't fail Masks because of it but that doesn't make it fun to deal with being lobbed around, especially on a Monk with Whirling Dragon Punch. You also can't make much progress early on in Cloak Ranks because the sanity resist/talent trees are so much of an upgrade.

I kind of worry about Shadowlands with Torghast. I'm an altoholic, I don't want to spend my life doing this Tower on all my characters. BFA has been by far the most Alt unfriendly Expansion and requires so much effort to even play one Character.

[Elbob]

I didn't hate them at the start but they are very repetitive and time consuming. I don't want to do Visions but the Cloak/Cores are upgrades I feel you should get and there's also Gem sockets and Echoes. If you want BIS gear and corruptions unfortunately Visions are needed. I have eight Characters with Rank 15 Cloak and sometimes don't do Visions on all them because it's boring. I just want to do M+ (15's or higher), Raid (Mythic/Heroic) and PVP, not grind Sockets/Cores/Echoes from Visions.

Also I cannot stand Scorched Feet. I absolutely hate the mechanic because it's frustrating and there's no play around it. It just happens and it's infuriating. I don't fail Masks because of it but that doesn't make it fun to deal with being lobbed around, especially on a Monk with Whirling Dragon Punch. You also can't make much progress early on in Cloak Ranks because the sanity resist/talent trees are so much of an upgrade.

I kind of worry about Shadowlands with Torghast. I'm an altoholic, I don't want to spend my life doing this Tower on all my characters. BFA has been by far the most Alt unfriendly Expansion and requires so much effort to even play one Character.

I dont want to seem like im starting an argument cause I agree with 90% of your post, but im pretty sure WDP doesnt proc scorched feet, you need to hit a directional key (left right forward back) to proc it and WDP just launches you up like a jump command would.

As for worrying about torghast taking all your time cause you like alts. I feel that, but i think recently they changed it so the leggo currecy you get from it can be done from a specific type of run that is very fast.

[Nzx]

Yeah they’re petty shit. The design around dodging shit every 5 seconds comes from current game design catering to ADHD addicts who are unable to stop and appreciate what they’re doing. They crave ridiculous challenge because it silences their overactive mentally ill minds that they want to be free of. Blizzard and most game designers now cater to this type of gamer. No longer are games immersive experiences, they are overly produced drugs.

As opposed, of course, to the Chad Classic gamers, who prefer to disengage their brains completely for ~60 seconds while they auto attack mobs to death and then run to the next one, so they can focus more on Beethoven and solving world hunger.

[Druitz]

It seems someone never played real rated pvp... Espesially during mop where you ere sitting in 30-40 seconds cc chains

[dcc626]

The MECHANICS of Visions I have the least problems with.

It's their repetitiveness that's the main issue, and also the fact that there's such a glaring disparity between how easy or hard they are depending on your class/spec. But that's not a result of Visions mechanics per se, but rather a systemic issue afflicting many forms of content. There's significant overlap, for example, between classes that do well in Visions and classes that do well in M+: highly mobile, non-cast-time based specs with at-will burst damage. Casters and classes with ramp-up time do a lot worse, generally.

But sure, the #1 complaint is definitely that there's 2 layouts that never change and you have to complete them constantly on every character you give a damn about - not to mention you ALSO have to do dailies/weeklies etc. to even be allowed to do Visions in the first place. It's an egregious system of repetition layered onto repetition, which is detrimental to the experience in twelve dozen different ways.

Visions are great. A few times. They're HORRIBLE more than horrific once you have to do them multiple times a week, every week, on every character, in order to keep up with power gains.

well, torghast has some variation, but you are going to have it as nevessary content for up to 2 years. we have had visions for what, 5 months. get ready for the complaints i guess.

[Niwes]

It's not. Nothing about madnesses is random, not which one you get, nor what they do. And there's only 3 possible combinations per zone anyway, both with and without the double madness mask.

What's obvious here is that there's a bunch of people complaining about HVs(which certainly do have issues, especially with repetetiveness) while having absolutely no idea how they actually work.

its enough for me personally, that I (not you) find them boring, repetitive, cheap, annoying and lame. even when i „have no idea how they actually work“, it is not vanity content. it is char progression content, i have to do, if i not wanna gimp around. and in this regard they failed horribly. if i can skip them, fine. i would do. because they suck. but just bc you like em, or bc i have to do that shit i dont like, when i wanna do WHAT i like (competitive raiding and m+), doesnt mean its automatically good content.

if you like them, glad for you. i like em not. and i can not skip them. (and dont come up with nobody needs cloak 15, everybody is free to skip em, casual, hardcore, small difference, blah blah and whatever, plz not decrease it to that low niveau).

i dont care if someone like em. i am happy when ppl find things in game they like. i am happy for them. but i am not happy (not only for myself here) when ppl are forced to do shit in game they dont like. this means i am not happy for ppl that have to farm lfr for nyalota essences, while they hate lfr, not happy for ppl have to do pvp for their pve essence and so on. i formyself have no probs with pvp. but i understand why it sucks for ppl, that wanna mythic raid and try to improve their max dps, which is a huge part of the fun of the game for some ppl, and then are told to do pvp for 10 days. and i do not talk about method or such shit. i talk about the guy next door, that have fun by improving his character.

anyway. whatever. nice that you like HV. i like em not.

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one thing that blizz does right is player retention. hell, people like you think the game is shit but you still waste your time posting about it. /shrug.

plz, before putting your words in other ppls mouth, read.

i said HV is cheap shit.
i said mage tower was fine.
i said in near past they added more and more of that cheap „features“.
i NOWHERE said the whole game, and EVERY aspect of it, is shit.

so stop putting your words in my mouth plz. thx.

PS: if i were clever and smart enough, i had should stopped reading at your „ppl like you“ statement. sad. i assume you are just a horrible stupid idiot. but in the mean time, you can tell me WHAT exactly „ppl like me“ are ? and do WE all wear the same shirts or is there any marker, so you safely can detect US ?
Infracted

[Osmeric]

While I understand some people find them fun, I certainly do not. If the game is going to revolve around content of this kind I will be stepping out.