Reveal speculation

[DemonDays]

like stuns or slows or other spells on boss fights? you are "forced" to not use them (as they dont work), since vanila, yet that was never an issue, now you cant use one ability in pvp (at least not in all situations) and somehow its and issue?
one ability cant make or break it in pvp if you are good you will still be good, if you are bad you will still be bad

LOL.

Thanks for proving our point that this is a bad system.

Some of the Covenant abilities are LITERALLY PvP focused abilities that force movement on mobs like the Necrolord DK one, Abomination Limb.

You think that shit is going to work on a boss? (AS THEY DONT WORK) <----as you said it.

ROFL

[Newjinsei]

Most people quit because they see wow as a pointless game where “progression” becomes a regression and new players only experience 15% of the ever shrinking world map, number of dungeons and raids in terms of relevance.

If I was completely new to wow, here is how I would react:

Wow! Amazing, new shiny world full of new wonders to explore...ah...wait what? What do you mean I can’t experience the end game of the past 8 expansions? Huh? Nothxbai u think I’m stupid? Might as well play ten different other games if I’m gonna be one shotting everything pointlessly and stupidly collecting hundreds of mounts that get old and lose value the moment you collect them, where is the point in that?

Yeah but don’t worry, there is end game content from the current expansion that’s gonna make you have tons of fun! Hmmm...nothxbai! Stuff is gonna be meaningless in no time and I’m gonna be left with the stuff from 8 expansions ago to one shot...

Do us all a favor and cap your game content with ilvls above which they cannot be experienced and keep it relevant forever. Either that or keep scaling it please.

[Lolites]

LOL.

Thanks for proving our point that this is a bad system.

Some of the Covenant abilities are LITERALLY PvP focused abilities that force movement on mobs like the Necrolord DK one, Abomination Limb.

You think that shit is going to work on a boss? (AS THEY DONT WORK) <----as you said it.

ROFL

if you didnt nitpick but actualy check what we were discusing, was that one ability will not make you fail in pvp (it can be turned to pve for sure, although that wasnt the point of discusion)... one ability doesnt matter...

my whole point was that one ability wont matter, or what do you think with abomination limb as your covenant ability you will do zero dps on boss?
btw i main frost dk, so i checked DK covenant abilities a bit, and if you do a bit of math (just based on % ap and so, as we dont have fine tuning and precise numbers yet) covenant abilities are far less impactfull than half of talents...
and btw abomination limb can be used on bosses, it still does dmg, and pull up adds if necessary...

people are just blowing it out of proportion, as usual

[Dracullus]

Why people think anything will be revelead? From blue post:

"Set a reminder on your calendar for Tuesday, June 9 at 9:00 a.m. PDT for a simulcast stream live with World of Warcraft Executive Producer John Hight and Game Director Ion Hazzikostas. They’ll share more about the upcoming Shadowlands expansion with a look at some of the newest content in development."

Of course I saw WoWhead and MMOChamp calling it 'reveal event', but I saw nothing like that from Blizzard. It's often problem in this community that they read recaps from popular sites, but ignore direct info from Blizzard. It's especially noticeable during interviews.

From what it looks Ion will just talk about Alpha content, probably more about max level content. Maybe we will see some Beta info, maybe not. But many people set themself for disappointment (like expecting new class.. really?).

[Lolites]

You fail to see the issue here.

The issue here is not being "forced to NOT use an ability because of X situation...."

but it's being forced to NOT use an ability in X situation BECAUSE YOU CAN ONLY CHOSE 1 ABILITY FROM SET OF 4-5... and if you want to swap it into something USEFUL- then you have to spend A LOT OF TIME DOING SO!

get it now?

i do, now tell me, did you protest that you cant change talents in m+? bcs there are situations where you could use different ability but you cant unless you chose it before the run...
you have ability usefull in certain situation only so you dont use it in different situation, how is it any different than choosing your class, spec, to a certain degree talents (as you can change those in raid)?

one ability will have soo little impact on vast majority of players, yet people whine about it as if it makes classes unplayable without it...

[taishar68]

Most people quit because they see wow as a pointless game where “progression” becomes a regression and new players only experience 15% of the ever shrinking world map, number of dungeons and raids in terms of relevance.

If I was completely new to wow, here is how I would react:

Wow! Amazing, new shiny world full of new wonders to explore...ah...wait what? What do you mean I can’t experience the end game of the past 8 expansions? Huh? Nothxbai u think I’m stupid? Might as well play ten different other games if I’m gonna be one shotting everything pointlessly and stupidly collecting hundreds of mounts that get old and lose value the moment you collect them, where is the point in that?

Yeah but don’t worry, there is end game content from the current expansion that’s gonna make you have tons of fun! Hmmm...nothxbai! Stuff is gonna be meaningless in no time and I’m gonna be left with the stuff from 8 expansions ago to one shot...

Do us all a favor and cap your game content with ilvls above which they cannot be experienced and keep it relevant forever. Either that or keep scaling it please.

You can’t possibly know why most people quit, and I think it is far more likely that there is no most about it; I think there are so many reasons to quit a game that’s been around this long.

You also can’t know what you’d think of WoW if you were a new player, because you’re not. Your perspective is forever colored by your experience. You are projecting what you don’t like and suggesting you’d hate it if you didn’t know anything about the game. It’d be a lot quicker to say “I don’t like these things about WoW and I wish they would change, instead of trying to couch those complaints in speculation and hypothesis.

[dcc626]

Its odd they havent released a new date for the reveal tbh. Almost like perhaps they wasnt ready for the reveal and used BLM as an excuse to postpone it? idk. Pure speculation, but its a bit odd.

you are right, its pure speculation.

[Somewhatconcerned]

Hopefully more spells/talents/abilities but probably not.

[Wolfrick]

If you ask me, the idea behind making all the content be at your current level is great... when you play the last expansion... you kinda.. play 10% of the real game...

So thanks to the level Squish we could make that happen... and this way... all of the old content would make sence and the old proffessions stuff would not be worhtless...

Great to see people think like this and I really hope some of these stuff happens, since people can cry about not beeing able to Solo 90% of the game... but what is the point in playing a game where you are alway super uber powerfull and do everything by your self... and MMOrpg... should make you understand that alone its really hard... and if you play with people things gets easyer.

Well, the level Squish it self is amazing, so we are on the right path

[RemasteredClassic]

They need to define ilvl caps for greens, blues, epics and so on....and stick to these cap values....leveling should not exceed 60, ever again. Instead, they should implement an ilvl based reset and implement a max level new progress bar tied to the player's completion of story lines and new progression systems such as covenants and this new mini tree they are adding. This is what should get reset every expansion, not the player's level.

This is how you can have a system of the best of both worlds and can keep growing the game endlessly without devaluing gear and previous content completely. Of course they would need to scale all raids and dungeons from all previous content to level 60 for this to work.

Players should be able to use epics from any previous expansion to help them level up in SL without requiring the help of new gear from SL during the SL story line progression reflected by the new max level progress bar, unless you are a new player who needs this gear. ONLY after that has been completed, then players should start getting their gear upgraded from SL heroic, mythic and mythic + dungeons, raids, pvp...etc
Normal dungeons are considered progression dungeons and so their dropped gear in SL should be on par with normal dungeons from previous expansions (if all get scaled to 60).

New players should start in SL and not BFA, this is another huge mistake they are making. They now have a chance to consolidate players and systems, but they seem to be missing the chance to do so.

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Player level should never again be reduced, not 60 to 50, not any other level reduction.

So basically a new player buys the game, starts in the new 1-10 tutorial based starter zone then at level 10 goes to SL to play with everyone else and level up to 60 there. When this player finishes leveling up and becomes a "veteran", his next alt can do the same but instead of SL, he can choose another expansion to level up from 10 to 60, completely bypassing SL all the way up to 60. Otherwise, what's the point in this system if we are going to force people to see SL every time they level up an alt? It goes against the concept of variety. Also, because SL is where they are going to be spending the rest of their time at max level.

As for upgrades, well if they actually get a better item while leveling, they would use it, but questing gear drops should never be higher in SL over the rest of expansions and should at least be on par with other expansion's mid-ilvl epics, so those with the best gear from BFA can feel the power of this gear all the way up to level 60 and THEN they can start replacing them from dungeons, raids and pvp in SL. This is how you give players the sense that that gear still has value and can only be replaced via new END GAME content, not leveling content...

[Sentynel]

They need to define ilvl caps for greens, blues, epics and so on....and stick to these cap values....leveling should not exceed 60, ever again. Instead, they should implement an ilvl based reset and implement a max level new progress bar tied to the player's completion of story lines and new progression systems such as covenants and this new mini tree they are adding. This is what should get reset every expansion, not the player's level.

This is how you can have a system of the best of both worlds and can keep growing the game endlessly without devaluing gear and previous content completely. Of course they would need to scale all raids and dungeons from all previous content to level 60 for this to work.

Players should be able to use epics from any previous expansion to help them level up in SL without requiring the help of new gear from SL during the SL story line progression reflected by the new max level progress bar, unless you are a new player who needs this gear. ONLY after that has been completed, then players should start getting their gear upgraded from SL heroic, mythic and mythic + dungeons, raids, pvp...etc
Normal dungeons are considered progression dungeons and so their dropped gear in SL should be on par with normal dungeons from previous expansions (if all get scaled to 60).

New players should start in SL and not BFA, this is another huge mistake they are making. They now have a chance to consolidate players and systems, but they seem to be missing the chance to do so.

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Player level should never again be reduced, not 60 to 50, not any other level reduction.

So basically a new player buys the game, starts in the new 1-10 tutorial based starter zone then at level 10 goes to SL to play with everyone else and level up to 60 there. When this player finishes leveling up and becomes a "veteran", his next alt can do the same but instead of SL, he can choose another expansion to level up from 10 to 60, completely bypassing SL all the way up to 60. Otherwise, what's the point in this system if we are going to force people to see SL every time they level up an alt? It goes against the concept of variety. Also, because SL is where they are going to be spending the rest of their time at max level.

As for upgrades, well if they actually get a better item while leveling, they would use it, but questing gear drops should never be higher in SL over the rest of expansions and should at least be on par with other expansion's mid-ilvl epics, so those with the best gear from BFA can feel the power of this gear all the way up to level 60 and THEN they can start replacing them from dungeons, raids and pvp in SL. This is how you give players the sense that that gear still has value and can only be replaced via new END GAME content, not leveling content...

While you're here, care to provide us with a solution regarding power creep?

Level cap increase is needed to soft reset secondary stats.

[FelPlague]

Its odd they havent released a new date for the reveal tbh. Almost like perhaps they wasnt ready for the reveal and used BLM as an excuse to postpone it? idk. Pure speculation, but its a bit odd.

They were ready, but they postponed it because of what was going on.
i can legimtally tell you everything was set up and on track, but it was postponed last second because of what was happening irl.
I can tell you, cause Talisin said it on stream.
Many content creators had to sign an NDA, and that it was something playable, and that alpha people might not get it, but content creators will...
so take that as you will.

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you are right, its pure speculation.

They are waiting for things to calm down, idk if either of you have noticed, but the protests have not stopped, the rioting hasn't stopped.
it didnt end, it is STILL going on.

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No, I think they think that announcing the new date on the exact date they were expecting to reveal would be seen as "too soon" or whatever.

The protests still havent ended, the movement is still at full force. so they are waiting. they want they wait till this is all over.

[Th3Scourge]

LOL.

Thanks for proving our point that this is a bad system.

Some of the Covenant abilities are LITERALLY PvP focused abilities that force movement on mobs like the Necrolord DK one, Abomination Limb.

You think that shit is going to work on a boss? (AS THEY DONT WORK) <----as you said it.

ROFL

Not necessarily, Abomination's limb would work just as well in M+, gripping in adds and interrupting casts. The problem is that it's just not worth giving up Venthyr teleport or Night Fae travel form

[DemonDays]

Not necessarily, Abomination's limb would work just as well in M+, gripping in adds and interrupting casts. The problem is that it's just not worth giving up Venthyr teleport or Night Fae travel form

Yeah. The bigger issue is actually the "utility" spell that all classes get.

Take for example the Kyrian one - provides a potion that removes poisons and shit. If you design a raid encounter that favours this ability it just feels bad. How do you tune that encounter properly?

In 90% of other situations the Venthyr/Night Fae one is better in every way.

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They were ready, but they postponed it because of what was going on.
i can legimtally tell you everything was set up and on track, but it was postponed last second because of what was happening irl.
I can tell you, cause Talisin said it on stream.
Many content creators had to sign an NDA, and that it was something playable, and that alpha people might not get it, but content creators will...
so take that as you will.

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They are waiting for things to calm down, idk if either of you have noticed, but the protests have not stopped, the rioting hasn't stopped.
it didnt end, it is STILL going on.

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The protests still havent ended, the movement is still at full force. so they are waiting. they want they wait till this is all over.

It's hypocritical anyway.

Your precious Blizzard doesn't give a shit about Hong Kong lives. Why do Black Lives suddenly matter?

[FelPlague]

Yeah. The bigger issue is actually the "utility" spell that all classes get.

Take for example the Kyrian one - provides a potion that removes poisons and shit. If you design a raid encounter that favours this ability it just feels bad. How do you tune that encounter properly?

In 90% of other situations the Venthyr/Night Fae one is better in every way.

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It's hypocritical anyway.

Your precious Blizzard doesn't give a shit about Hong Kong lives. Why do Black Lives suddenly matter?

1. they are american, so they care a lot more
2. they care enough to donate 4 million
3. they did, why they allowed and encourged protests, they simply didnt want people hijacking their stream.

4. lol can you get a life?

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Not necessarily, Abomination's limb would work just as well in M+, gripping in adds and interrupting casts. The problem is that it's just not worth giving up Venthyr teleport or Night Fae travel form

Also it does damage, it only pulls if they are too far away, it still does pretty decent damage.

[Th3Scourge]

Also it does damage, it only pulls if they are too far away, it still does pretty decent damage.

I'm not doubting is has value in PvE, but the trade-off from the alternatives isn't worth it. And I really want to go with the Necrolords but the value appears to be rather niche at this stage

[enigma77]

When blizzard ? When?

[RemasteredClassic]

While you're here, care to provide us with a solution regarding power creep?

Level cap increase is needed to soft reset secondary stats.

I wrote the suggestion already, top of my post:

Leveling should not exceed 60, ever again. Instead, they should implement an ilvl based reset and implement a max level new progress bar tied to the player's completion of story lines and new progression systems such as covenants and this new mini tree they are adding. This is what should get reset every expansion, not the player's level. For new players, this bar would not exist fully, obviously, since they would be using SL as a normal leveling process from level 10 to 60. Only the progression beyond the major quest-lines would be reflected by this new progress bar for new players. It should also include a clear ILVL progression path for players to target either via PVE or PVP. This is why defining ilvls and sticking to the definition is needed as this would be the target of the soft reset.

[Sentynel]

I wrote the suggestion already, top of my post:

Leveling should not exceed 60, ever again. Instead, they should implement an ilvl based reset and implement a max level new progress bar tied to the player's completion of story lines and new progression systems such as covenants and this new mini tree they are adding. This is what should get reset every expansion, not the player's level. For new players, this bar would not exist fully, obviously, since they would be using SL as a normal leveling process from level 10 to 60. Only the progression beyond the major quest-lines would be reflected by this new progress bar for new players. It should also include a clear ILVL progression path for players to target either via PVE or PVP. This is why defining ilvls and sticking to the definition is needed as this would be the target of the soft reset.

Read my question again.

You still didn't provide a solution to secondary stats.

[RemasteredClassic]

Read my question again.

You still didn't provide a solution to secondary stats.

Hey Sentynel, honestly, nothing comes to mind in terms of a long term, repeatable solution to secondary stats. I looked at other people's suggestions on this, but I couldn't find a satisfying answer either. Any ideas?

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The op mentions scaling the world for each expansion to allow 10 to 60 play including dungeons and raids. The system already exists in the form of party sync. It not only squishes your stats but disables abilities above level. Would love to see this as a stand-alone option outside of a party and allow it in raids too. That way if someone wants to explore all previous raids in non-one shot mode, they would be able to and get level appropriate loot.

I would love to try magetower bosses I haven’t experienced yet. New players would play WoW in the same way they watch a show with multiple seasons.