When did buying a prebuilt PC become a taboo in the PC community?

[nocturnus]

I have no idea why you think a 10% difference is not a big difference "chap"

Because big and small, are both objective. You're probably just a greedy schwabe

[KrayZ33]

Because big and small, are both objective. You're probably just a greedy schwabe

Maybe (or -yes), but I specifically said that I'm paying $ in € and then "some".
So basically 409,00€ to 399$ and not the other way around as in your example. So I'll give you that at least

So - out of my head, I assumed a price difference between 15-20%, while the actual difference is probably more like 10% (I can't be bothered to check older/other stuff as it wouldn't change my standpoint on this)

[chazus]

I assemble my own computers because I'm a control freak and I always want the best possible hardware. But I'm not that invested in the process to pretend my way is much cheaper. Actually, in my case it's not.

It isn't just about prices, though. In fact, I have seen from time to time legitimately good deals on pre-builts. During the days of heavy nVidia cryptomining, it was cheaper to buy a prebuilt with a good nVidia card, than it was to just buy the bare card, because the System Market wasn't affected by price demands.

That said, it's not just about price. It's about quality.

I have never, never, ever, in working with thousands and thousands of computers, both hand made and pre-built, seen a pre-built that was as good quality as a decent, respectable hand built system.

Now, do some of these deficiencies not matter much, in certain situations? Sure. Office systems, prebuilts are fine. Something for grandpa to use zoom to see his grandchildren? No problem.

But in the PC Building community, where people give a crap about form and/or function... That's an issue. Either bad quality parts, or bad quality built, or other weird things. They range from "That's Obnoxious" to "I hope this isn't a problem" to "Eight out of Ten of this model die in ~13 months due to a shit power supply"

I cannot believe the number of systems I used to get in with Deer, Raidmax, or Chieftec power supplies that could barely limp their way out of Best Buy. Or the notorious K7S5A motherboard which TO THIS DAY, I have seen more than any other motherboard in for repair. ECS in general was awful, but that board was comically flawed, and found in a looooooooot of prebuilts (as well as hand made, due to their SD/DDR compatibility, I imagine).

There are certainly cases for prebuilts, and if you actually do put a dollar value on every minute of your day, then it is certainly more economical. I personally just don't like playing the roulette game of 'I wonder whats wrong with this one'

[Donald Hellscream]

Often they are overpriced and the manufacturers skimp on the production costs by using cheaper brands, like a gaming pc from HP might have a 500 watt psu, but it is probably a 500 watt psu in the cheaper end.

That being said my pc is prebuilt as in I went on komplett's webstore, picked a pc and picked the parts I wanted and had them assemble it at their workshop before sending it.

[Lei]

I never knew there were "organizations" or "fan clubs" for or against this. Wow, you learn every day.
Prebuilt pc in the past was always a compromise (shitty ram but enough hdd, good graphichs card but shitty hdd and such), and it was overpriced compared to picking individual parts and putting them together.
I guess prebuilt is good for people who can't put together a pc (old parents, grandma etc)? Or "don't have the time".

[Ashina]

I actually checked some prebuilt PCs from local trusted PC hardware retailers and they're decent. A little bit more expensive than what I could build myself but the notion that they're a ripoff or twice as expensive doesn't seem to hold up here.

[nocturnus]

Maybe (or -yes), but I specifically said that I'm paying $ in € and then "some".
So basically 409,00€ to 399$ and not the other way around as in your example. So I'll give you that at least

So - out of my head, I assumed a price difference between 15-20%, while the actual difference is probably more like 10% (I can't be bothered to check older/other stuff as it wouldn't change my standpoint on this)

I just gave you the price difference; it's not that hard dude. We pay 399 euro for a 10700k and a US citizen pays 368 euro. Ergo, the difference is marginal, especially considering how much we earn compared to them.

- - - Updated - - -

I actually checked some prebuilt PCs from local trusted PC hardware retailers and they're decent. A little bit more expensive than what I could build myself but the notion that they're a ripoff or twice as expensive doesn't seem to hold up here.

It generally doesn't hold up and sometimes, they're even cheaper because they don't use premium (read 'gamer' tagged bs) components people generally don't need.

[KrayZ33]

I just gave you the price difference; it's not that hard dude. We pay 399 euro for a 10700k and a US citizen pays 368 euro. Ergo, the difference is marginal, especially considering how much we earn compared to them.

- - - Updated - - -


It generally doesn't hold up and sometimes, they're even cheaper because they don't use premium (read 'gamer' tagged bs) components people generally don't need.

Uhm, isn't the annual wage way higher in the US than in most european countries?
How do you even calculate/compare the average when they have to pay for extra stuff like healthcare and we don't.

I don't see how it's marginal either considering that you can basically get the better component for every other part and still pay the same.

[nocturnus]

It isn't just about prices, though. In fact, I have seen from time to time legitimately good deals on pre-builts. During the days of heavy nVidia cryptomining, it was cheaper to buy a prebuilt with a good nVidia card, than it was to just buy the bare card, because the System Market wasn't affected by price demands.

That said, it's not just about price. It's about quality.

I have never, never, ever, in working with thousands and thousands of computers, both hand made and pre-built, seen a pre-built that was as good quality as a decent, respectable hand built system.

Now, do some of these deficiencies not matter much, in certain situations? Sure. Office systems, prebuilts are fine. Something for grandpa to use zoom to see his grandchildren? No problem.

But in the PC Building community, where people give a crap about form and/or function... That's an issue. Either bad quality parts, or bad quality built, or other weird things. They range from "That's Obnoxious" to "I hope this isn't a problem" to "Eight out of Ten of this model die in ~13 months due to a shit power supply"

I cannot believe the number of systems I used to get in with Deer, Raidmax, or Chieftec power supplies that could barely limp their way out of Best Buy. Or the notorious K7S5A motherboard which TO THIS DAY, I have seen more than any other motherboard in for repair. ECS in general was awful, but that board was comically flawed, and found in a looooooooot of prebuilts (as well as hand made, due to their SD/DDR compatibility, I imagine).

There are certainly cases for prebuilts, and if you actually do put a dollar value on every minute of your day, then it is certainly more economical. I personally just don't like playing the roulette game of 'I wonder whats wrong with this one'

Aye. DYS systems have more love poured into them, if you will. Also, there's a big difference between pre-built systems for administrative use and pre-built workstations. While I agree that PSUs generally are bottom-shelf and CPU cooling is just good enough, the rest of the components are actually quite good.

My general point was that claiming DYS systems are always cheaper and that you're either stupid, or ignorant if you buy e pre-built system, is utterly false.

Uhm, isn't the annual wage way higher in the US than in most european countries?
How do you even calculate/compare the average when they have to pay for extra stuff like healthcare and we don't.

I don't see how it's marginal either considering that you can basically get the better component for every other part and still pay the same.

Okay, believe whatever you want. We're derailing the thread and to be frank, I really don't give a fuck.

[Mosotti]

If you buy pre-built you are being ripped off, that's the disadvantage. The advantage is that if you don't care about money and you don't want to spend time making the damn thing, you're better of buying it prebuit. However, if you buy from a stupid source, like Walmart, than you get also shit on top of being ripped off.

And no, making a computer is not easy at all. There are so many components, there are so many things that might not work properly, you need to do a lot of research and read a lot of reviews. That's just getting the parts. Then you need to learn how to put them together properly, and that's not easy either, if we remember the retarded "How to build a PC" video from Verge. After you put them together you must know what to set in BIOS or rather UEFI or whatever the fuck they call it now. If you set up something shitty there you might fuck up something for good. You might even start with an UEFI firmware update that might go wrong, then you're fucked, unless you buy a very expensive dual boot board.

Things are not as fucking easy as some put them, and anyone who makes enough money to not bother with that shit should just get it pre-built. The forums are full of people who fucked up and have no idea what to do, or they don't have the means to do what they need to do, for example to swap memory or video card to check if they are fucked.

[Easyclassictopkeklel]

I hang around in the PC building communities on reddit, facebook, etc and recommending a prebuilt PC is a recipe for downvotes or getting made fun of. Not everyone has the time or the skill to build a PC. The amount of posts on tech support forms from people screwing something up is really high. Nobody can recommend a prebuilt without being shit on.

This is a thing since I build my first PC back in the 90s.
PC enthusiasts usually take their "hobby" pretty serious. Especially gamers. Unlike console gamers we are free to customize our PCs and the sad truth is that most prebuilt PCs are overpriced and often contain semi-optimal or even unnecessary components. It has never been easier to build a PC than today, not much you need to read up and not much to screw up...so if someone is just going for prebuilds many consider it a stupid decision because of lazyness.
There are a few companies which build awesome setups, but ofc you have to pay the price for something like that.

I couldn't care less where people buy their PCs, but when someone is using this machine on a daily basis and does not even know how to change a CPU by himself
I must admit it amuses me a bit. It's like driving a car everyday and not knowing how to change a tire...

But in the end you shouldn't be bothered about internet opinions. People are just waiting for someone to "look down on", or to lecture...no matter what topic, if you're not an "expert" there will always somebody who is willing giving you sht.

[nocturnus]

If you buy pre-built you are being ripped off, that's the disadvantage. The advantage is that if you don't care about money and you don't want to spend time making the damn thing, you're better of buying it prebuit. However, if you buy from a stupid source, like Walmart, than you get also shit on top of being ripped off.

And no, making a computer is not easy at all. There are so many components, there are so many things that might not work properly, you need to do a lot of research and read a lot of reviews. That's just getting the parts. Then you need to learn how to put them together properly, and that's not easy either, if we remember the retarded "How to build a PC" video from Verge. After you put them together you must know what to set in BIOS or rather UEFI or whatever the fuck they call it now. If you set up something shitty there you might fuck up something for good. You might even start with an UEFI firmware update that might go wrong, then you're fucked, unless you buy a very expensive dual boot board.

Things are not as fucking easy as some put them, and anyone who makes enough money to not bother with that shit should just get it pre-built. The forums are full of people who fucked up and have no idea what to do, or they don't have the means to do what they need to do, for example to swap memory or video card to check if they are fucked.

No, you're not being ripped off per definition; we already explained why and I've even provided an example or two.

Secondly, both 'hard' and 'easy' are subjective. You think that assembling a computer is hard, that doesn't mean it is.

Assembly, is objectively comparable to a 12 year+ Lego game. The BIOS you could leave on default and your computer would work perfectly well. As for picking parts, well, there are plenty of websites that do that for you in the form of 'best buy guides'.

You're giving it too much credit.

[Mosotti]

No, you're not being ripped off per definition; we already explained why and I've even provide an example or two.

Secondly, both 'hard' and 'easy' are subjective. You think that assembling a computer is hard, that doesn't mean it is.

You didn't explain anything, you just gave an opinion, which is wrong. It's obvious that you're being ripped off when the service you pay for includes profit, taxes, salaries and god knows what else. You pay all that for something that anyone with an average IP could do by themselves, IF they spend some reasonable time researching. It's not like building a car or a yacht.

And 'hard' and 'easy' are not subjective when you have a proper baseline, in this case someone who has never built a computer. For no such person in the universe building a computer from scratch will be easy. Like anything, it becomes easier the more you build, if it's your first one, or you just build one every 5 years, it's not easy at all.

Probably the best solution is to ask a someone to assist in getting the parts and then build it for you, avoiding any big brands. But then there's the risk of just getting fucked, because there are a lot of shady people who pray on clueless. They might put whatever the fuck in there and you get screwed. I've seen some videos like this on youtube when they would pretend they are clueless and ask for some build or part and they just get screwed.

So I would rank them like this:
1) You have money and don't give a fuck: pick the most outrageous pre-built from some fancy brand, check trusted reviews and go for the stars
2) You have money but you prefer to save Africa or some other shit: try to find a trusted local builder and work with him
3) You don't have money to throw away, not even for Africa: read, watch youtube, and build it yourself.

[Ickz]

Because it's a waste of money buying a pre-built and building a PC actually doesn't require much skill/knowledge/time at all these days. There's tons of resources out there that teach you every thing you need to know and do. It's just pure laziness buying a pre-built. I could care less about what others do, personally - they're the ones getting screwed and paying more for less.

[Ihazpaws]

I've been playing and actually done everything on this MSI laptop for 3 years now. Got external monitor just so I can see better (only 1 working eye).
There really have been no problems other than that fans are bit loud sometimes.

Prebuild PCs and laptops are fine, elitist jerks just are getting somekind sexual kicks from being elitists. And I am not saying prebuild PC is better than custom but when you buy prebuild and clean install windows etc before installing anything else (to get rid of majority of pre installed crap), prebuild PC is just fine. There are really good offers in different stores etc where you might get bit one less powerful piece but get something else very good with cheap price. Just make sure that everything in the prebuild PC is high quality. I got so shitty GPU last time when I bought prebuild PC that I had to return the PC and make half custom by myself that cost much more to do.

[nocturnus]

We did explain, you either missed it or chose to ignore it. Either way, that's your problem.

It's obvious that you're being ripped off when the service you pay for includes profit, taxes, salaries and god knows what else.

How about you attempt to use your brain, for once.

Profit margins, taxes, salaries and everything else that comes into the equation are normal. You are not being ripped off for being subject to these variables and are not somehow exempt from these when going DYS. Claiming such absurdities makes you look stupid.

And 'hard' and 'easy' are not subjective when you have a proper baseline, in this case someone who has never built a computer. For no such person in the universe building a computer from scratch will be easy. Like anything, it becomes easier the more you build, if it's your first one, or you just build one every 5 years, it's not easy at all.

'hard' and 'easy' are always, factually, subjective. Period. It's especially ironic considering you contradicted yourself right after by adding variables that confirm the subjective nature of the words.

[Fahrenheit]

I don't know anymore, with services like NZXT BLD, you're getting a pretty damn good deal with high quality parts as compared to going on PCpartpicker and putting it together yourself.

[nocturnus]

I don't know anymore, with services like NZXT BLD, you're getting a pretty damn good deal with high quality parts as compared to going on PCpartpicker and putting it together yourself.

Services like that have been available for 20 years; most PC-part shops in the Netherlands offer this service for a minor premium of 50-100 euro. NZXT just knows how to market it correctly.

[Fahrenheit]

Services like that have been available for 20 years; most PC-part shops in the Netherlands offer this service for a minor premium of 50-100 euro. NZXT just knows how to market it correctly.

It also helps that they use their own components, so there's no middle man on some of the large parts. Plus, they have high end GPUs for decent prices, regardless if there are shortages going on or whatever. I've price compared several builds there and they're always within a few % of cost, sometimes even cheaper.

[lakylog]

I hang around in the PC building communities on reddit, facebook, etc and recommending a prebuilt PC is a recipe for downvotes or getting made fun of.

The whole thing you're saying here is recommending a prebuilt PC to a PC building community. Do you think you'll get upvotes recommending microwave dinners to chefs?