Horde Reparations

[Ringthane]

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Infracted.

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[Soon-TM]

Blizzard has set this up by having an Alliance leader who sees peace as reparation enough and that is where it will end.

Nope. In 10.0, or 11.0 at MOST, we will have another Warchief Horde council member(s) being jumped on with the Stupid Evil™ because... reasons. And once again, all the shady stuff Alliance did before will be swept under the rug and they will pose as the pure, infallible folks who can do no wrong except being too kind. Even if one of their allies was almost wiped out - but they weren't humans, so who cares.

- - - Updated - - -

Tyrande and the elves that are following her are pass the point of reparations...did you all not here what she said to Anduin? We don't even know if she would be only satisfied with Sylvanas's death, she could turn her warpath on the rest of the horde later on.

Tyrande is really being set up as a baddie, or at least as a "lost cause", and I'd be very suprised if she was still in the Alliance after SL. Such is the fate of all who oppose the boiking.

[Amaterasu65]

Come over here and try to ask for something you pathetic alliance swine. I'll bash your head in. Just because the leaders want to play patty cake, doesn't mean that's how we all feel. I see alliance, I see blood.

Infracted.

I imagine a female blood elf with the yeti onesie tmog from Blizzcon typing this and shiver.

[Raisei]

Nope. In 10.0, or 11.0 at MOST, we will have another Warchief Horde council member(s) being jumped on with the Stupid Evil™ because... reasons. And once again, all the shady stuff Alliance did before will be swept under the rug and they will pose as the pure, infallible folks who can do no wrong except being too kind. Even if one of their allies was almost wiped out - but they weren't humans, so who cares.

Indeed, but can you blame Blizzard? Ever since the 4th War ended the Horde playerbase is loudly decrying how dead their faction is now that it is no longer murdering innocents and starting wars for fun. The voices that are actually glad about a peaceful Horde are nearly non-existant or shouted down immediatedly as traitors. Blizzard can either completely ignore all those people crying for blood and war and risk loosing massive subs or they go back to the warmonger Horde soon, trying kind of a balance between good and evil Horde every few expansions.

The introduction of the loyalist questline basically confirmed that Blizzard is listening to this vocal group, so if you don't want this to happen you should cry less about the 1,5 questionable acts the Alliance has commited and more about your faction being used by some people to express their fantasies of being evil psychopaths.
I said it before and I say it again: You are hitting yourself with the villain bat. Blizzard does not want the Horde to be evil, they fight tooth and nail against it, but a good part of the playerbase has been stuck in WC1 and 2 and they want to be just a murderous bunch of savages, Blizzard, as a buisness venture, has to bow to the will of the playerbase at least from time to time.

Tyrande is really being set up as a baddie, or at least as a "lost cause", and I'd be very suprised if she was still in the Alliance after SL. Such is the fate of all who oppose the boiking.

Well, much like Genn's hatred for Sylvanas, Tyrande has a completely justified cause and she is correct in assuming that the Horde will follow the next psychopath that shouts "For the Horde", so making her a villain for that is about as justified as blaming the 4th War on Genn.

I am pretty sure she will go the Jaina route. Given the chance to exact vengeance in a way akin to how Garrosh and Sylvanas would have done it (murdering tons of innocents in the process), she will reflect back and realize that she is not that kind of person and doesn't want to be on a level with them.

The question is though how much the Night Warrior controls her. I think it unlikely that she will become a big bad by her own will, but the Night Warrior might have a different idea and start controlling her. We do after all still not know what this thing is all about, if it truely is an aspect of Elune or something darker.

[Moonrage]

The Night elve or the Alliance are not in any position to ask for reparation, so I guess this is just a "what if" question.

Helping with sending druid in Darkshore may appease the tension. I don't know if the Shatterspear troll have druid but if that the case they may help.

May be the Horde could also allow some night elve to reinstall in Ashenvale.

"Allow" as if the Night Elves are waiting on the Horde's approval. Canonically, the Horde retreated from Ashenvale after SoO, safe to say any horde member that the Night Elves encounter in Ashenvale will be slaughtered.

[Super Dickmann]

Well, much like Genn's hatred for Sylvanas, Tyrande has a completely justified cause and she is correct in assuming that the Horde will follow the next psychopath that shouts "For the Horde"

Tell that to the writing staff.

Recovering Tyrande Whisperwind
Stage 7: Defeat Skuld
Skuld stands in your way!
Stage 9: Defeat the Tortured Amalgamation
The Maw has created an amalgam of tortured night elf souls. Help Tyrande fight them off.
NEW Stage 10: Tyrande Whisperwind’s Refusal
The battle is won, but what of Tyrande?
NEW Stage 11: Salvation of the Night Elves
Tyrande is gone, but you can still save the group of night elves trapped in the Maw.

I agree with your conclusion that she will ultimately forgive the Horde and donate her savings to the Orc Appreciation Society, but that she hasn't done so already is casts as a failing.

[Hellspawn]

I agree with your conclusion that she will ultimately forgive the Horde and donate her savings to the Orc Appreciation Society, but that she hasn't done so already is casts as a failing.

It would be a way to conclude the story but the datamined scenario from SL is not a indication of that. Sure the horde player can play that but canonical its more likely a Alliance player that helps her there. Also, remember Val'shara? How thankful was Tyrande there towards the horde player?

May be the Horde could also allow some night elve to reinstall in Ashenvale.

We don't really know the state of Ashenvale, personally I can't imagine that its still occupied by the Horde.
Also the Shatterspear has been destroyed by the night elfs twice now in Darkshore...
If you take the mission table lore serious, Ashenvale had constant conflicts between Nightelf, Dryards and against horde anyways.

[Super Dickmann]

It would be a way to conclude the story but the datamined scenario from SL is not a indication of that. Sure the horde player can play that but canonical its more likely a Alliance player that helps her there. Also, remember Val'shara? How thankful was Tyrande there towards the horde player?

I should have been a bit more clear, but what I'm using that as an example of is Tyrande's grievance with the Horde being cast as a negative trait and her conclusion leading towards her realizing this and becoming friends with them like everyone else in the Alliance. It won't be in that specific scenario, but that scenario is used to characterize her (negatively). A Horde player will most likely be able to do it to further drive the point across even though I don't think anyone Horde-side is all that enthused to do so, any more than I am to graduate from saving Jaina's brother to saving Jaina herself.

[Hellspawn]

I should have been a bit more clear, but what I'm using that as an example of is Tyrande's grievance with the Horde being cast as a negative trait and her conclusion leading towards her realizing this and becoming friends with them like everyone else in the Alliance. It won't be in that specific scenario, but that scenario is used to characterize her (negatively). A Horde player will most likely be able to do it to further drive the point across even though I don't think anyone Horde-side is all that enthused to do so, any more than I am to graduate from saving Jaina's brother to saving Jaina herself.

They could do that to conclude her story, if thats what they really want to do sure. It is a scenario that makes the need to revenge her fallen more into a personal vendetta since she could have helped the spirits of the fallen instead of us.
But to get to the point that the Alliance befriends the horde. Thats really not what happens, Jaina still dislikes the Horde and Genn heavily distrusts them too, most other leaders don't really have a own opinion. Anduin wants peace, but he does not resolve the conflicts between the factions.

So for me it seems more like that Tyrande may gets more reasonable after they resolve the night warrior and her revenge in some way, she probably will not forgive the Horde. To what plot this leads in the future... maybe nothing... maybe to new conflicts.

[Moonrage]

Tyrande and the elves that are following her are pass the point of reparations...did you all not here what she said to Anduin? We don't even know if she would be only satisfied with Sylvanas's death, she could turn her warpath on the rest of the horde later on.

Well can you blame her? All it takes is one axe-crazy warchief to get the Orcs into a bloodthirsty and violent frenzy. The Night Elves have suffered more than any other race and Anduin still has the audacity to tell her to just 'get over it'.

[Ardenaso]

Tyrande is really being set up as a baddie, or at least as a "lost cause", and I'd be very suprised if she was still in the Alliance after SL. Such is the fate of all who oppose the boiking.

Well, much like Genn's hatred for Sylvanas, Tyrande has a completely justified cause and she is correct in assuming that the Horde will follow the next psychopath that shouts "For the Horde", so making her a villain for that is about as justified as blaming the 4th War on Genn.

I am pretty sure she will go the Jaina route. Given the chance to exact vengeance in a way akin to how Garrosh and Sylvanas would have done it (murdering tons of innocents in the process), she will reflect back and realize that she is not that kind of person and doesn't want to be on a level with them.

The question is though how much the Night Warrior controls her. I think it unlikely that she will become a big bad by her own will, but the Night Warrior might have a different idea and start controlling her. We do after all still not know what this thing is all about, if it truely is an aspect of Elune or something darker.

Well can you blame her? All it takes is one axe-crazy warchief to get the Orcs into a bloodthirsty and violent frenzy. The Night Elves have suffered more than any other race and Anduin still has the audacity to tell her to just 'get over it'.

They could do that to conclude her story, if thats what they really want to do sure. It is a scenario that makes the need to revenge her fallen more into a personal vendetta since she could have helped the spirits of the fallen instead of us.
But to get to the point that the Alliance befriends the horde. Thats really not what happens, Jaina still dislikes the Horde and Genn heavily distrusts them too, most other leaders don't really have a own opinion. Anduin wants peace, but he does not resolve the conflicts between the factions.

So for me it seems more like that Tyrande may gets more reasonable after they resolve the night warrior and her revenge in some way, she probably will not forgive the Horde. To what plot this leads in the future... maybe nothing... maybe to new conflicts.

Relevant again...:

WoW 9.3: A Blaze of Glory

1. Shandris didn't want any of this to happen; and so she leads Baine, Thalyssra, and Lor'themar to a Goblin Shipyard in Azuremyst Isle for the players to get some ships and destroy the blockade leading to Darkshore

The forces of the Horde assemble on the coast. Baine rides up to Lor'themar.
Lor'themar: Baine, our troops are ready, but the Night Warrior's assembled a blockade of battleships around Darkshore. There's no way we can match their firepower.
Baine: Damnit, I should have thought of this sooner. We've got to find some way to--
The conversation is interrupted when Jaina and Shandris teleport in.
Shandris: Baine, Lor'themar... I come in peace. You must believe me--I had no part in the priestess's plans. I wish none of this had ever happened. I... I don't know what to do.
Thalyssra: We've bled together on many battlefields, Shandris. We've faced untold perils as allies. But your leader threatens the security of our nation and the very future of my people. You know how this has to end.
Shandris: I know, Thalyssra. Do what you must. There is a goblin shipyard on a Azuremyst Isle that could provide you with warships of your own. With those, you could scatter the blockade surrounding Darkshore.
Shandris: But please, spare the surrendering Kaldorei, Furbolgs, and Gilneans if you can. Tyrande will try to use them against you, but they're the only real family I'll have left when this is over. Please do this... for me.
Baine: We'll do all we can, Shandris. You have my word. Now you'd better make yourself scarce. The battle's about to begin.
Jaina teleports Shandris away.
Baine: Our forces are ready, Lor'themar. It's now or never.
Lor'themar: See it done, Baine. I'll meet you at Exodar

2. The Alliance and Horde finds a goblin shipyard and removes the resisting Black Moon Night Elves and Gilneans, as well as Draenei and Lightbound Draenei loyal to Tyrande

Baine: There, the goblin shipyard Shandris spoke of! Now we can hire their juggernauts to help us break the blockade.
Thalyssra: The blockade is broken! Board the transports, quickly! We must land on Auberdine and crush the Night Warrior's defenses!
Lor'themar: You've done well, Thalyssrar. You're a natural leader. You remind me of Kael'thas, in a way.
Thalyssra: Thank you, Regent-Lord. Now only one task remains. We must storm Bashal'aran and deal with Tyrande Whisperwind once and for all.

3. The Alliance and Horde march in Darkshore to defeat Tyrande, Malfurion, Genn (and probably Danath, Turalyon, Fareeya, Moira, Alleria, and Vereesa). Baine begs Tyrande to stand down and surrdender:

Lor'themar: The Night Warrior's elite guard are trying to cut us off! Slay them all!
Malfurion: I must admit, you Horde are more tenacious than I remembered. I thought you savages would have turned on each other by now.
Baine: This is not the Horde you remember, priestess. We have no interest in conquest or murder. We have paid for our sins of Sylvanas in signing some peace treaty.
Genn: Can your blood atone for genocide, brute? Your Horde killed countless innocents with its rampage across Gilneas, Astranaar, Silverwing Refuge, Lor'danel, Auberdine and Teldrasiil. Do you really think you can just sweep all that away and cast aside your guilt so easily? No, your kind will never change, and I will never stop fighting you.

Tyrande: Death to the blackbloods!
Genn: For Gilneas!
Genn: For! My! Son!

4. Tyrande, Malfurion, and Genn are finally dead

Thalyssra: It's over! Stand down, soldiers of the Black Moon!
Shandris runs up to Tyrande's body and kneels down beside it.
Shandris: Tyrande... why wouldn't you listen?
Lor'themar: Above all else, Shandris, she was a proud warrior. Remember her as such.
Baine: Durotar is now safe. We have no further quarrel with these night elves. We will leave your isle in peace, Shandris. I pray we never have to come here again. Farewell, leader of the night elves.

[Dellis0991]

Well can you blame her? All it takes is one axe-crazy warchief to get the Orcs into a bloodthirsty and violent frenzy. The Night Elves have suffered more than any other race and Anduin still has the audacity to tell her to just 'get over it'.

^True enough

- - - Updated - - -

Nope. In 10.0, or 11.0 at MOST, we will have another Warchief Horde council member(s) being jumped on with the Stupid Evil™ because... reasons. And once again, all the shady stuff Alliance did before will be swept under the rug and they will pose as the pure, infallible folks who can do no wrong except being too kind. Even if one of their allies was almost wiped out - but they weren't humans, so who cares.

- - - Updated - - -



Tyrande is really being set up as a baddie, or at least as a "lost cause", and I'd be very suprised if she was still in the Alliance after SL. Such is the fate of all who oppose the boiking.

Blizz need to stop doing that to faction leaders....damn cleared the rooster on the horde side and now they looking at the alliance.

[Soon-TM]

@Ardenaso Tyrande and Genn dead? Well, that's what happens when you oppose Anduin Sue. Too bad that Malfie Boi had to die as well, he might have made a far more interesting foe than some stupid dog.
@Dellis0991 To be honest, there isn't much left in the Horde to jump at... Maybe that's why they are looking towards the Alliance now

[Hellspawn]

Tyrande is really being set up as a baddie, or at least as a "lost cause", and I'd be very suprised if she was still in the Alliance after SL. Such is the fate of all who oppose the boiking.

There was also a second scenario datamined where we figure out how save Tyrande, so in the end the night warrior will be shared among multiple people (night elfs?) and I guess we get a more reasonable Tyrande but maybe more night elfs with some night warrior properties... but that has to be seen.

[Magnagarde]

Tyrande is really being set up as a baddie, or at least as a "lost cause", and I'd be very suprised if she was still in the Alliance after SL. Such is the fate of all who oppose the boiking.

Such is the fate of all who oppose a peaceful outcome actually. No matter who disturbs the peace between the Alliance and the Horde, they're always going to end up being the bad guys we eventually take out because Blizzard needs to make sure no faction is the explicit loser at the end. If Blizzard ever let sense prevail over balance, then the Alliance would be fighting a war to extinction against the Horde after everything that transpired.

[eurojust]

Such is the fate of all who oppose a peaceful outcome actually. No matter who disturbs the peace between the Alliance and the Horde, they're always going to end up being the bad guys we eventually take out because Blizzard needs to make sure no faction is the explicit loser at the end. If Blizzard ever let sense prevail over balance, then the Alliance would be fighting a war to extinction against the Horde after everything that transpired.

the irony is that she doesn't even really oppose a peaceful outcome. she just says that she won't sign a paper and then immedialty focus on Sylvanas.

[jzhbee]

She was given no choice but to invade this land or have her people used as cannon fodder and the son chose of his own free will to take an arrow for his father. Stop acting like she deliberately sought out and killed Liam for shits and giggles.

"Dude, it's not like she meant to kill Liam! She MEANT to kill Genn instead! Why would Genn be angry?"

[Kithelle]

Come over here and try to ask for something you pathetic alliance swine. I'll bash your head in. Just because the leaders want to play patty cake, doesn't mean that's how we all feel. I see alliance, I see blood.

Infracted.

Let me guess....you followed Sylvanas, who basically flipped you the bird and now you're overcompensating?

[Narmar]

Hey remember when the alliance were systematically murdering as many in the Horde as they possibly could and enslaved them and turned them into gladiators to die for their amusement. Maybe it's time to call it even lol.

[Feanoro]

Hey remember when the alliance were systematically murdering as many in the Horde as they possibly could and enslaved them and turned them into gladiators to die for their amusement. Maybe it's time to call it even lol.

Hey, remember the time when Horde posters knew the story instead of posting talking points? Me neither.

After the Old Horde's defeat, the options for dealing with a threat that had just massacred and burned its way across an entire continent were shoving them back through the Dark Portal, killing them all, or imprisonment. What was through the Dark Portal was largely unknown, so there was no guarantee they wouldn't simply regroup and roar back out stronger than ever. Killing them all would have decisively ended their threat, but the Kirin Tor convinced Terenas II and other (not all) Alliance leaders to allow a study of their demonic ailment. It would have been complete lunacy to let them roam free, as no one knew if or when they might shake off the lethargy and resume destroying everything in sight. Therefore, the internment camps.

Consider that the Old Horde murdered countless people, then realize it was almost impossible to get guards for the camps who wouldn't have been affected, who wouldn't have lost family, friends, or even their whole village or town. Put yourself in their shoes and think how merciful and gentle you'd be. It doesn't excuse any bad behavior, but it certainly explains it, and not for the lulz. Blackmoore viewed his assignment as Warden of the camps as a disgraceful punishment, and was plotting treason against the Alliance, in training Thrall to lead the orcs in an army so that Blackmoore could conquer the Alliance lands as his own kingdom. Somehow, I'd guess that he kept those plans secret!

As to systematically murdering the orcs, I have no idea where you got that, because nothing of the kind happened. The original Alliance broke up over it, as the camps were a HUGE financial drain on everyone, and the countries that left the Alliance viewed the camps as dangerous foolishness.