All Raids Past, Today!

[Cempa]

Idea is to make all raids of past available live -not time walking- simply tuned for live game play. Same mechanics just more hp/harder hitting spells.

Purpose: It could appeal more to people who enjoy all aspects of raiding and rather play mechanics of older raids. Some of those raids where incredibly fun!

Gear: Drop the same gear they did then but tuned to live content.

I realize set bonuses are gone and you can't have them drop BiS strength .. Or can you?

I can only speak for myself and my friends whom I know well in guild. We have a number of hours to enjoy wow per week, given the choice between Heroic/Mythic current content and Heroic/Mythic older raids (Kharazan/Ulduar as examples) we would take raids of past every time.

If they are tuned as hard as live, why not drop same strength gear?

What if you give those who rather go the azerite/corruption route what they want AND those who rather go vanilla tier set what they want?

[A Chozo]

Sure, some of the old raids were fun, but I already did the old stuff.

I can only speak for myself and my friends whom I know well in guild. We have a number of hours to enjoy wow per week, given the choice between Heroic/Mythic current content and Heroic/Mythic older raids (Throne of Thunder/Blackrock Foundry as examples) we would unsub and play something else because playing the same stuff over and over gets very boring, very fast.

[Greyvax]

the nostalgia wears off pretty quickly.

i have no interest in "re-progressing" through outdated content. i'd rather they use the resources to make new stuff.

The participation in timewalking raids should speak volumes about the level of interest in this (no one does them).

[VinceVega]

I agree but not with the gear. This will open up a whole bag of problems with trinkets and unique effects. Also with setbonuses and the amount of secondaries on items.

Current content should be the only viable gear option. Maybe raids of the same expansion which is difficult with the 4 different diffifulties.

[Shelly]

The biggest problem is that some items - especially at the end-tier are massively overpowered. Mostly things like trinkets and such but also stuff like the weapons off of Deathwing.

Try grabbing some of the old stuff and then doing a timewalking dungeon. You'll typically do about 50% of the group damage if you're at all awake. (Which I realize isn't saying much since most folks sleepwalk through TWing anyway.)

[Cempa]

Sure, some of the old raids were fun, but I already did the old stuff.

I can only speak for myself and my friends whom I know well in guild. We have a number of hours to enjoy wow per week, given the choice between Heroic/Mythic current content and Heroic/Mythic older raids (Throne of Thunder/Blackrock Foundry as examples) we would unsub and play something else because playing the same stuff over and over gets very boring, very fast.

New raids are still available ...hyperbolic much?

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the nostalgia wears off pretty quickly.

i have no interest in "re-progressing" through outdated content. i'd rather they use the resources to make new stuff.

The participation in timewalking raids should speak volumes about the level of interest in this (no one does them).

No one is suggestion you would have to play that content at all, the idea is to give players an alternative route or an option .. New raids or old raids ..

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I agree but not with the gear. This will open up a whole bag of problems with trinkets and unique effects. Also with setbonuses and the amount of secondaries on items.

Current content should be the only viable gear option. Maybe raids of the same expansion which is difficult with the 4 different diffifulties.

I see your point and have not figured out how that would work either ..

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The biggest problem is that some items - especially at the end-tier are massively overpowered. Mostly things like trinkets and such but also stuff like the weapons off of Deathwing.

Try grabbing some of the old stuff and then doing a timewalking dungeon. You'll typically do about 50% of the group damage if you're at all awake. (Which I realize isn't saying much since most folks sleepwalk through TWing anyway.)

Agreed, I guess seeing how the game has changed so much raiding mechanic wise, its wishful thinking on my part ...

[Ragnarohk]

Idea is to make all raids of past available live -not time walking- simply tuned for live game play. Same mechanics just more hp/harder hitting spells.

Purpose: It could appeal more to people who enjoy all aspects of raiding and rather play mechanics of older raids. Some of those raids where incredibly fun!

Gear: Drop the same gear they did then but tuned to live content.

I realize set bonuses are gone and you can't have them drop BiS strength .. Or can you?

I can only speak for myself and my friends whom I know well in guild. We have a number of hours to enjoy wow per week, given the choice between Heroic/Mythic current content and Heroic/Mythic older raids (Kharazan/Ulduar as examples) we would take raids of past every time.

If they are tuned as hard as live, why not drop same strength gear?

What if you give those who rather go the azerite/corruption route what they want AND those who rather go vanilla tier set what they want?

Just tune them like Timewalking and have them drop subpar level gear.

I do TW Ulduar every time it's up just for the nostalgia. I'm sure many people would run them without having a gear incentive if they aren't too hard.

It should stay as a side-thing to do in your downtime or on your alts.

[Soluna]

New raids are still available ...hyperbolic much?

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No one is suggestion you would have to play that content at all, the idea is to give players an alternative route or an option .. New raids or old raids ..

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I see your point and have not figured out how that would work either ..

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Agreed, I guess seeing how the game has changed so much raiding mechanic wise, its wishful thinking on my part ...

For your replies against the first two people, imagine this. There is an overpowered trinket from throne of thunder Heroic, and that means that every tier that everything gets tuned up, you gotta reclear ToT, and it completely invalidates the rest of the trinket game. It's a shit idea mate. And you can say 'ppl have the choice', no, when it comes to raiding, everyone, even 1.5k world casuals who think they are hot stuff cause they got CE one day before next patch, will demand that you do throne of thunder, or SoO or Dragon soul every single tier a bunch of times to get what is considered the bis loot.

[Cempa]

For your replies against the first two people, imagine this. There is an overpowered trinket from throne of thunder Heroic, and that means that every tier that everything gets tuned up, you gotta reclear ToT, and it completely invalidates the rest of the trinket game. It's a shit idea mate. And you can say 'ppl have the choice', no, when it comes to raiding, everyone, even 1.5k world casuals who think they are hot stuff cause they got CE one day before next patch, will demand that you do throne of thunder, or SoO or Dragon soul every single tier a bunch of times to get what is considered the bis loot.

If an OP item was ever made exclusive to one route it would instantly be nurfed or made available to the other .. You know very well buffs and nurfs are a thing right?

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Just tune them like Timewalking and have them drop subpar level gear.

I do TW Ulduar every time it's up just for the nostalgia. I'm sure many people would run them without having a gear incentive if they aren't too hard.

It should stay as a side-thing to do in your downtime or on your alts.

For sure this would work, and it would not require much work.

I'm a big fan of older game design and would much rather play 'that' kind of raid ..

[taishar68]

For your replies against the first two people, imagine this. There is an overpowered trinket from throne of thunder Heroic, and that means that every tier that everything gets tuned up, you gotta reclear ToT, and it completely invalidates the rest of the trinket game. It's a shit idea mate. And you can say 'ppl have the choice', no, when it comes to raiding, everyone, even 1.5k world casuals who think they are hot stuff cause they got CE one day before next patch, will demand that you do throne of thunder, or SoO or Dragon soul every single tier a bunch of times to get what is considered the bis loot.

Not wishing to derail, but you think top 1500 in the world is casual? I guess we all define it differently

[XDurionX]

This is a really bad idea.

First: Tuning as "hard as live" sounds good on paper, but it's hard enough to balance ONE raid, let alone 60(?). Every time a new tier releases? Enormous waste of ressources. Plus people will always flock to the easiest one anyway.

Second: With dozens of lockouts available, people can and will burn themselves out and then be done within less a week.

[Puri]

How would that even work with the current exponential power creep per tier? They would have to constantly adjust the raids throughout the xpac and adjust for new systems like legendaries/azerite/corruption or whatever gets added.

This would be an unending sisyphean task without normalizing the players power like in timewalking, they release constant balance hotfixes for the single current raid, this would never work for dozens.

[Cempa]

How would that even work with the current exponential power creep per tier? They would have to constantly adjust the raids throughout the xpac and adjust for new systems like legendaries/azerite/corruption or whatever gets added.

This would be an unending sisyphean task without normalizing the players power like in timewalking, they release constant balance hotfixes for the single current raid, this would never work for dozens.

I see your point .. Can't answer .. Only thought would be exact same loot table .. Older raids are just more hp/harder hitting mobs .. New raids are, well, new!

Would enough players opt to play raids they know inside out?

Would new players find older raids fun?

[Hellobolis]

If they are tuned as hard as live, why not drop same strength gear?

Because then everybody would do the fastest easiest raid there is to gear up everytime a new patch came out.

[Razion]

On a fun note, it will be cool to see people be able to pause leveling at lv50 and essentially be able to raid all the past legacy raids at a relevant difficulty. Once in a while people would do these kinds of old-style raiding projects for individual level caps, but now that all the old legacy raids basically all fall under level 50, that's a huge amount of content available for the level bracket, so I wonder if more people will actually give legacy raiding a try as an actual activity. Could encourage people to make new alts, as well, just to legacy raid.

We have occasionally gotten revamps of old raids like Naxx and Onyxia as new content. And even for the Molten Core Anniversary revamp, or even the larger 'a little of each expansion' Timewalking also made them level appropriate for a bit as Timewalking with drops of relevant end-level loot, but they never stayed around because Timewalking is currently a temporary event. I think it's probably best if it stays a temporary event - makes it feel more special, gives you incentive to do it. If it were available all the time some people may resent it, but there's definitely a desire for other people who want to do it more frequently as well. Adding more dungeons and raids to Timewalking can probably improve the variety of the experience, though.

[Cempa]

Because then everybody would do the fastest easiest raid there is to gear up everytime a new patch came out.

How is that a bad thing? And it sounds like a tuning issue ..

Novel idea at best I guess ...

In my imagination, players would get to pick the raid they want and play that raid on the day they want .. I realize 'story' progression need new/fresh raids.

[Daedius]

No thanks... back when we had uncapped Titanforging people wanted to do older raids and lesser difficulties just to get them proc's. Now imagine something similar, but for the ton of old raids out there for people wanting that old 'BiS' trinket and what have you... screw that.

I don't even touch the Timewarped Raids...

[Cempa]

On a fun note, it will be cool to see people be able to pause leveling at lv50 and essentially be able to raid all the past legacy raids at a relevant difficulty. Once in a while people would do these kinds of old-style raiding projects for individual level caps, but now that all the old legacy raids basically all fall under level 50, that's a huge amount of content available for the level bracket, so I wonder if more people will actually give legacy raiding a try as an actual activity. Could encourage people to make new alts, as well, just to legacy raid.

We have occasionally gotten revamps of old raids like Naxx and Onyxia as new content. And even for the Molten Core Anniversary revamp, or even the larger 'a little of each expansion' Timewalking also made them level appropriate for a bit as Timewalking with drops of relevant end-level loot, but they never stayed around because Timewalking is currently a temporary event. I think it's probably best if it stays a temporary event - makes it feel more special, gives you incentive to do it. If it were available all the time some people may resent it, but there's definitely a desire for other people who want to do it more frequently as well. Adding more dungeons and raids to Timewalking can probably improve the variety of the experience, though.

That sounds really fun .. So twinking but for PvE .. In a way thats what classic servers offer.

[Saltysquidoon]

On a fun note, it will be cool to see people be able to pause leveling at lv50 and essentially be able to raid all the past legacy raids at a relevant difficulty. Once in a while people would do these kinds of old-style raiding projects for individual level caps, but now that all the old legacy raids basically all fall under level 50, that's a huge amount of content available for the level bracket, so I wonder if more people will actually give legacy raiding a try as an actual activity. Could encourage people to make new alts, as well, just to legacy raid.

I think people would be disappointed at how easy they would be. A level 50 character in shadowlands is far stronger then the same character was at 70 in TBC.

How is that a bad thing? And it sounds like a tuning issue ..

Novel idea at best I guess ...

In my imagination, players would get to pick the raid they want and play that raid on the day they want .. I realize 'story' progression need new/fresh raids.

Yes it would be a tuning issue,e a tuning issue that would take thousands of man-hours to get right for what I predict would be a negligible to nonexistent sub spike. You need to remember everything blizzard does needs to cost less then it makes back to be justified.

Also, you're right that's your imagination, what would actually happen is every guild would do the easiest raids to get fully geared in a day and rush the world first race and the tier would end inside the first lockout for anyone vaguely competent.

[Stardrift]

Some of those raid bosses were tuned and/or designed around solely on specific classes and abilities that don't exist today.

To specify "classes that don't exist today" for the extra slow; some classes back then are entirely unrecognisable from their modern day counterparts.