FFXIV the worst game I've tried in a while

[Sarkol]

Are you actually trolling me?

I've said that getting good logs is based on gear and luck. Because the rotation is easy. I havent said getting good logs is easy.

Can you literally not read?

Dude, i think you're the one who needs to stop trolling. You come in there with that nonsense about WoW rotations being easy and Nya'lotha having 0 hard mechanics, which is quite obviously subjective because there are a ton of bad players in the game, as well as multiple difficulties. We get it, you're an absolute pro and you can play WoW with one hand, no one gives a shit dude.

[Gorsameth]

He has spend this entire thread talking about how its good that wow classes are easy, but he misses mop where classes where objectively more complex. Sense - he makes none

MoP's class complexity still pales in comparison to FF14. Like with many things there is a balance between extremely simplistic and overly complex. For the OP it appears MoP hit the sweet spot for him.

[Kongnic11]

The difference can be quite overwhelming especially if you have only played WoW. If you want the most easiest class to play then you can choose between a red mage or a samurai. Now about the skills, well there are many guides on the internet of a certain class but thats just the surface of it since at every boss you have to time your certain big cooldowns or big spells/abilities. TBH WoW rotation is alot more easier and less punishing then the rotation of FF14, also with the mechanics. If even samurai is just too much, well then youve gotta stay with WoW. But honestly, if you spend time with the rotations you can be on the top of dps list.

For this there are raids which say ''practice'', if you want to just figure out your rotation then you can head over to an npc. This npc is in some places where max players city is, so if you type on Google '' sea stone sky npc'' it will show you where the npc is in each expansion. Why not just take a dummy? Well at the npc you choose how much HP the dummy has by selecting which boss hp you want, when you are sent to the intstance you get a time limit to kill the dummy. When you get out of the instance, all cds are reset so that you can go again.

If you want a class with big BOOMS, then summoner or black mage are great buuut are hard. DRG itself is just mediocre complex rotation, but being a guy who jumps all the time with dragon gear and such is lovely.

Anyway, I hope you dont give up hope. Also euhm the community of ff14 can be fragile so watch out for that.

Thank you for your great and constructive answer, I appreciate it.

There is not doubt that I MAY have judged the game a tad too fast, but I to me rotation is a big part. I personally find 6-8 (maybe 10) the best place, as this allows you to focus on the encounter you're against. I like to compare it to a fighter pilots cogpit. They have made it as simple as possible in order to not info overload you, and my limit may be smaller than most people.

[ClassicPeon]

They still weren't anything like as clunky or bloated as FF14 classes.

I havent played ff14 so i really dont care. I'm just responding to him saying that the classes complexity is in a good spot atm

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Dude, i think you're the one who needs to stop trolling. You come in there with that nonsense about WoW rotations being easy and Nya'lotha having 0 hard mechanics, which is quite obviously subjective because there are a ton of bad players in the game. We get it, you're an absolute pro and you can play WoW with one hand, no one gives a shit dude.

Everyone knows they are easy. Compared to what they where. Its not a subjective thing. They literally dumbed the classes down from MoP til now. Are you whiteknighting or something?

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MoP's class complexity still pales in comparison to FF14. Like with many things there is a balance between extremely simplistic and overly complex. For the OP it appears MoP hit the sweet spot for him.

No. The op thinks what we currently have is the sweet spot. Her has said that multiple times and he innitiated with that in his OP.

[Kongnic11]

I havent played ff14 so i really dont care. I'm just responding to him saying that the classes complexity is in a good spot atm

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Everyone knows they are easy. Compared to what they where. Its not a subjective thing. They literally dumbed the classes down from MoP til now. Are you whiteknighting or something?

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No. The op thinks what we currently have is the sweet spot. Her has said that multiple times and he innitiated with that in his OP.

No point in discussing this, it's off-topic. If you want to discuss it, make a thread and I'll join. Great evening/day to you.

[Cinnamilk]

With simple rotations, you can actually enjoy harder boss mechanics.

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Out of curiosity. Is it possible to play red mage and only use casterphase rotation or do I HAVE to do melee too?

I mean technically, I guess you could. You'd be missing out on a lot of damage because melee is your only dump for b/w mana. Also, it's like 3 buttons every once in a while, so it doesn't take a large chunk of your execution time. You're mostly casting, then like every 30-40 seconds you jump in to 1-2-3 and then jump back out right into casting again. It's kind of the whole draw of red mage.

[ClassicPeon]

No point in discussing this, it's off-topic. If you want to discuss it, make a thread and I'll join. Great evening/day to you.

Its not really offtopic - you mentioned it in your OP.

[Sarkol]

I havent played ff14 so i really dont care. I'm just responding to him saying that the classes complexity is in a good spot atm

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Everyone knows they are easy. Compared to what they where. Its not a subjective thing. They literally dumbed the classes down from MoP til now. Are you whiteknighting or something?

I don't know, do you know the definition of subjective? Saying something with multiple difficulties is easy is hilarious. On another note, if everyone would stop pretending WoW rotations have vastly changed in complexity over the years, bar the jump from like Vanilla to Wotlk, that would be great. They really haven't changed that much.

[ClassicPeon]

I don't know, do you know the definition of subjective? Saying something with multiple difficulties is easy is hilarious. On another note, if everyone would stop pretending WoW rotations have vastly changed in complexity over the years, bar the jump from like Vanilla to Wotlk, that would be great. They really haven't changed that much.

What are you on about? Multiple difficulties? We arent talking about raids here we are talking about class rotations?

The rotations have significantly changed since mop and the pruning. You could for example just look at what happened to rogues, feral druids, mages, warlocks. They all lost complexity in their specs. They all lost maintenence buffs, burst periods, snap shotting or the likes. Its not a subjective opinion, you just arent enlightened on the topic

[Gorsameth]

Thank you for your great and constructive answer, I appreciate it.

There is not doubt that I MAY have judged the game a tad too fast, but I to me rotation is a big part. I personally find 6-8 (maybe 10) the best place, as this allows you to focus on the encounter you're against. I like to compare it to a fighter pilots cogpit. They have made it as simple as possible in order to not info overload you, and my limit may be smaller than most people.

If your interested in giving it another shot I would suggest trying Samurai. It's simple (for FF14, like the Red Mage) but I found it flowed a lot better.

And yes, if a game like this doesn't 'flow' its just not fun. That is what WoW has always done so well, the flow of combat just flows really well, in part because its very liberal with animation cancelling while other games often lock you into completing animations.

[Tyris Flare]

The bolded comment here just shows you arent playing BFA endgame right now. Like it really just shows.

There is literally no hard mechanics in Nyalotha as i already said. The game was objectively dumbed down for people like you from pandaria and WoD.

I hate it. I absolutely think it sucks that your rotation is so simple that we cant tell good people from bad people

If this were true, everyone would be parsing within a few % of each other. They are not, so skill actually still matters.

And yes, the RNG with some corruption is dumb, but just do comparisons with people who are stacking stats - there's almost no RNG yet you still see HUGE gaps between player performance.

[Sarkol]

What are you on about? Multiple difficulties? We arent talking about raids here we are talking about class rotations?

The rotations have significantly changed since mop and the pruning. You could for example just look at what happened to rogues, feral druids, mages, warlocks. They all lost complexity in their specs. They all lost maintenence buffs, burst periods, snap shotting or the likes. Its not a subjective opinion, you just arent enlightened on the topic

I literally just checked Warlocks and they're basically the same as they are now. Also checked Arms and Ele(which is actually more going on in BFA), and it gives the same answer, it's about 4-5 abilities with cds mixed in. Were some specs more complicated? No doubt, but for most, it really wasn't groundbreaking stuff, and it's very easy to check since all the old guides are still online. On the raids topic, you brought it up by saying Nya'lotha has 0 hard mechanics, i didn't.

[tru]

Ffxiv has easier rotations than wow if you just read the skills.

That's the problem. Just like with wow how many people would loose their shit if they had to read quest text again and didn't have add-ons to tell them where to go.

I did enjoy the game but it's "job"/ role structure finally turned me off. I didn't want to be forced to tank playing a 2h warrior archetype. Nor did I want to be forced into a utility role playing a Archer. Just like blizz they have a hard-on for mages.

I wish em luck and I hope the game continues to do well it just isn't for me.

Oh I guess on topic I never once found rotations hard. I mean shit lights up for you. Hit 1 and 2/3 light up 3 is a buff then it's 1/2/3/4/5
Swap 4 for 6/7 for aoe and that's the game.
The slow and I mean slowwwwwww gcds and seizure mode on your action bars make it near impossible to mess up.

Honestly the biggest turn off for me was the damn random letter generator they use for npc names. I mean really some of that is just absurd.

[Nasuuna]

Honestly, I tried the game like 4 years ago and the thing that made me stop playing were the super flashy animations during raids. Pretty sure if I had continued I would have gotten epilepsy lol.

you can turn them down/off for your party, it helps a lot



This thread also kinda shows the worst of both communities.

WoW players wanting other games to be like WoW

FFXIV players thinking their game is far superior.



IMO I'd rather have an interesting difficult to minmax class/job with medium encounter difficult than insane hard with simple rotations.

Thats my preference, that is why I quit WoW for FFXIV

[Ghostile]

Honestly the biggest turn off for me was the damn random letter generator they use for npc names. I mean really some of that is just absurd.

Im curious, hit me with a few examples

[Malix Farwin]

if you want an active rotation with little buttons play Bard. it has very little buttons but has procs its fun.

[Wrecktangle]

Are you actually trolling me?

I've said that getting good logs is based on gear and luck. Because the rotation is easy. I havent said getting good logs is easy.

Can you literally not read?

I must preface that I am not currently raiding WoW this tier. However, I have raided most of BfA. I don't raid Mythic seriously (just casually, usually first 3-5 bosses via pugs/our heroic guild). Yet, despite being a raidlogger with on average 3-7ilvl less than my colleagues and a good 10 or so ilvl lower than dedicated mythic raiders I still have 90-95%+ kills on record in Mythic and 99% in Heroic (a few 100's by ilvl).

Again, I know with corruption shit, RNG is a much bigger factor this tier than in tiers past, but despite the more condensed toolkit, there's still a surprising amount of optimization and depth in some class kits.

Ninja has the highest APM in the game, and DRK a close second. Both upwards of 80-90 APM if played right. So yeah, it is MUCH worse than WoW in that regard. And if you aren't hitting those thresholds, then you won't be doing good dps for that class, and people will notice.

Source? Because as another poster and my own research indicated - this is completely inaccurate based on CPM. How are you measuring APM exactly?

How is positioning in WoW harder when most every Melee in FF14 have positional requirements on abilities? Your post reeks of 'I suck at game, so this game sucks!'. Holy yikes bro, get fucking good.

WoW rotations right now are an absolute joke and way too simplified. The game really needs to go back to MoP-era design philosophy because this pruning BS is really what killed my drive to play and enjoy this game.

To be fair, positioning is highly static in FF14. It's always be here at this exact GCD at this exact time. WoW is much more dynamic in managing uptime. Whether one is better or not is up to subjective discussion.

[ClassicPeon]

If this were true, everyone would be parsing within a few % of each other. They are not, so skill actually still matters.

And yes, the RNG with some corruption is dumb, but just do comparisons with people who are stacking stats - there's almost no RNG yet you still see HUGE gaps between player performance.

This isnt how parsing works. I dont know why i am discussing this with people who obviously dont have experience with it.

Parsing high %'s usually comes from the group giving you freedom to solo aoe adds or something along the lines. THe highest parses generally arent an indication of anything other then people getting to cheese the boss completely while the others do the work.

And even with your logic, then no. Gear matters, but luck have some extreme outliers. Like i said, you can visually see it from Bajheeras rank 1 on youtube. He got lucky starts proc and did 116k dps, 45% of it was from lucky stars proc. THat doesnt happen often, and it doesnt happen to anyone, but the fact is - its not because of bajheera it happened, its because of luck

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I literally just checked Warlocks and they're basically the same as they are now. Also checked Arms and Ele(which is actually more going on in BFA), and it gives the same answer, it's about 4-5 abilities with cds mixed in. Were some specs more complicated? No doubt, but for most, it really wasn't groundbreaking stuff, and it's very easy to check since all the old guides are still online. On the raids topic, you brought it up by saying Nya'lotha has 0 hard mechanics, i didn't.

But its just not true. Like i have literally 0 reason to discuss this with you because you are just wrong. I wont answer you anymore. I'm not compelled to look up stuff and educate you, i just dont care that your opinion keeps being wrong, its fine with me

[Xeenith]

if the first 20 or 30 levels make you fell asleep on your keyboard, you won't care how much better it's at max level

gaming should be a chose or boring
and damn are those class sloooow as hell (yeah I know it's supposed to be better later... but sleeping on the keyboard doesn't make the class xp lol)
main cause the BCG when you're used to wow

I too tried FF14, several times : at 1st time release, at ARR, then years later when there was some limited free time trial
couldn't get anything past 15.
worse, I feel like the story was better told on the very 1st release, the last time I tried I started fresh, and all those "you're alone in a crystal zone talking to a VOICE!!!" killed any interest I had
I wanted to like it because I like a lot of the FF solo games (not 9 strangely, I was not fan of any characters, design or story; didn't play 12 and +... but 7, 8 and 10 I loved to death haha)

and yet each time I tried it was a big deception, in the end I had more fun trying to master the craft system the 1st release of the game than playing it's story or leveling "class"

[ClassicPeon]

I must preface that I am not currently raiding WoW this tier. However, I have raided most of BfA. I don't raid Mythic seriously (just casually, usually first 3-5 bosses via pugs/our heroic guild). Yet, despite being a raidlogger with on average 3-7ilvl less than my colleagues and a good 10 or so ilvl lower than dedicated mythic raiders I still have 90-95%+ kills on record in Mythic and 99% in Heroic (a few 100's by ilvl).

Again, I know with corruption shit, RNG is a much bigger factor this tier than in tiers past, but despite the more condensed toolkit, there's still a surprising amount of optimization and depth in some class kits.



Source? Because as another poster and my own research indicated - this is completely inaccurate based on CPM. How are you measuring APM exactly?



To be fair, positioning is highly static in FF14. It's always be here at this exact GCD at this exact time. WoW is much more dynamic in managing uptime. Whether one is better or not is up to subjective discussion.

I'd argue the "suprising" amount is overstated. And that corruptions obviously do most of the rng. Some of it is from essences with lethal strikes procs and so on, almost none of it is from azerite traits. So if you arent a Nyalotha raider you probably wont have felt this.

The experience we had progressing through nyalotha was TERRIBLE. Someone got a 75 IS and they where top dps(at the start it was an even larger part of ppls damage then it is now). Other people got TD and smashed any bosses with trash. The rest could look on and barely actually matter for progression. THe people who came for progression where the people with the right corrruptions.

THAT sucks