1. #47361
    Quote Originally Posted by StrawberryZebra View Post

    You can't have things drop off after players have moved a certain distance either, or have abilities that need to be jumped over and so on.
    Another example of abilities that are already in FFXIV that "can't be done."

    You get the point. You are exaggerating. You can have all that - to the same or a lesser degree, whatever. The point stands. It's in the game already and it can be done.

    No one ever said that you have to replicate WoW style abilities 1:1.
    You (guys) are fishing for something here that was never part of the discussion or even the problem.

    There is no reason to not just amplify/change the abilities to keep server ticks into account.
    Stuff like.. what's that dungeon called again, the former high-end dungeon? where you drop the blue-burn onto furniture?
    That works instantly and fine too???

    I literally use Yaten followed by Gyoten instantly (2 oGCDs) and it always spreads the flame onto it. What's the problem again?
    Or hell no, what if you actually have to wait 0,2seconds for it to register, FFXIV is slow enough. WoW would have problems with stuff like that, because it's overall faster. But this is not about having the same "speed".

    You are looking at 2,5sGCDs and not 1,5sGCDs here.
    You are also looking at 8 players and not 20+
    Last edited by KrayZ33; 2020-06-14 at 10:11 PM.

  2. #47362
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    Quote Originally Posted by KrayZ33 View Post
    Another example of abilities that are already in FFXIV that "can't be done."

    You get the point. You are exaggerating. You can have all that - to the same or a lesser degree, whatever. The point stands. It's in the game already and it can be done.

    No one ever said that you have to replicate WoW style abilities 1:1.
    You (guys) are fishing for something here that was never part of the discussion or even the problem.

    There is no reason to not just amplify/change the abilities to keep server ticks into account.
    Stuff like.. what's that dungeon called again, the former high-end dungeon? where you drop the blue-burn onto furniture?
    That works instantly and fine too???

    I literally use Yaten followed by Gyoten instantly (2 oGCDs) and it always spreads the flame onto it. What's the problem again?
    Or hell no, what if you actually have to wait 0,2seconds for it to register, FFXIV is slow enough. WoW would have problems with stuff like that, because it's overall faster. But this is not about having the same "speed".

    You are looking at 2,5sGCDs and not 1,5sGCDs here.
    You are also looking at 8 players and not 20+
    Grand Cosmos for the furniture burning.

  3. #47363
    @StrawberryZebra & @KrayZ33

    I've made dozens of posts in the past on this topic. I'm gonna just snip a couple of them in here as raw ideas. I do agree that SE just doesn't use their creativity very well with respect to mechanics and I personally don't like how rigid the encounter design is. I want more dynamic, faster gameplay, with less consequences and more triage.

    I'd like to see more mechanics that don't insta-wipe you, but make the fight progressively more difficult. Think adds spawn that if not killed convert part of the room to a constantly growing void zone. They may spawn directly on the boss, so the tank will need to move him and DPS will need to kill it to prevent the void zone from getting too large. If killed the void zone is smaller and doesn't grow. Make the DPS check hard, missing it won't prevent the fight from continuing but missing more than 2 may cause you to run out of room before enrage, while simultaneously making other mechanics more difficult to deal with since there's less room.

    Another example would be something like making tank swaps more exciting then a binary stacking debuff. Think like the boss hits an ability that turns the MT into a living bomb of sorts, he needs to get away from the raid, and the OT needs to pick up aggro quickly and re-position, or make tank swapping mandatory to soak boss tank busters. Make him use busters more frequently to promote tank swapping to ensure a CD is available for all busters. A failed buster doesn't need to be an insta-wipe, but make it punishing, that it requires some sacrifice or external cooldown to get back to stability.

    Another neat example would be the boss soft enrages anytime a member in the party including the tank is put below say 40% HP. If someone misses a mechanic and takes a lot of damage the boss begins to do increasingly more powerful and frequent attacks. The counter to this would be a tank swap to hold the soft enrage while the healer restores the player to a safe health that triggers the soft enrage to fall off. I'd love to see more dynamic and responsive mechanics, rather than be here at x time or else wipe.
    Here is an example of a tank swap mechanic:
    Boss hits MT with ability every like 25s or so. It hits hard and then puts a very heavy DoT on them that heals the boss for every % of health drained (so lower player HP less boss gets healed). If the tank gets healed above 66% while debuff is active, the debuff spreads to the target who healed them above that threshold, hitting them incredibly hard and putting the same DoT on them.

    The idea would be successful management of the debuff would prevent the boss from healing too much making the enrage easier.

    If you failed it, you could end up with 2-3 people with the debuff, making healing incredibly hard to keep them up, without spreading the debuff. If at any point a person dies with the debuff, the boss gains a stacking buff that gives them 10% additional damage done. It'd be likely that 2-3 stacks would become exceptionally hard to heal through, but not impossible.

    I really want to see more tank mechanics that coincide with healers and the party, not just "generic stacks taunt at x". Something that has dynamic consequences and strategy adjustments.

    Idea for Periodic Mechanic:
    Boss summons blasts of fire on say 4 random players dealing damage upon detonating and leaving a puddle of lava on the ground that ticks immediately. If any player takes damage from the puddle, it grows in size and intensity. It's likely with good movement each person would cause the pool to grow at least once. Bad movement could result in 2-3 ticks, and horrible movement could result in a puddle ending up taking up more than a 1/3 of the area, likely causing a wipe.

    The idea behind this would be that it would cut up the room making tanks positioning be more relevant. These would persist the entirety of the encounter is it is possible to run out of space before the end of the fight. it would also make player positioning important as to not cut someones path off if you or theirs grew too large.

    I'd like periodic mechanics to not be so pull breaking, but instead cause you to adjust your positioning and strategy mid fight.

    Another tank mechanic:
    Let's say that every time the boss auto-attacks it gains a stacking damage buff and attack speed buff, but it also takes x% more damage the higher its stacks. It resets his stacks on aggro switch.

    The idea would be to hold out as long as you can, but the damage gets exponentially more difficult to deal with so tanks would be using cooldowns to hold the stacks as long as possible to meet the tight DPS check before swapping. Have the attack speed stacks also effect cast times and telegraph times meaning that on Savage/EX you'd have a much harder time gauging the safety zone/time.

    Periodic mechanic for the above fight:
    A single add spawns every once in a while (not a hard timer or %), slightly more randomized moderately low health add that when near boss gains damage and attack speed stacks as well so needs to be kited away and killed away because it explodes creating a power wave that must have a player line of sight between it and the boss otherwise it spawns another add. This explosion leaves a gravity well on the ground that persists the entirety of the fight. It doesn't do significant damage, but it slows you by 50% when in it or near it. If a gravity well is ever near a boss it heals it so the boss must be moved away. Every time and add is killed every single gravity well sends a power wave out that must be 'soaked'. The waves do a decent bit of damage to whoever soaks them as well.

    The idea behind this mechanic is that good management means you won't have a ton of wells up and a single player can line of sight multiple wells before roping in a second person to help. If you make a mistake it's not an auto wipe, but now you have another add to deal with, another well, and another line of sight. The adds have to be killed very quickly (say 20s) or else they detonate in a room wide explosion dealing enormous damage (very likely to kill anyone not topped off or combined with incoming damage + boss attacks = tank death).
    Crowd Control:
    I want crowd control back. Interrupts, slows, stuns, etc. Tie most crowd control to oGCDs, not cross role nonsense. Give certain roles/jobs better versions. For instance, Tanks likely have the best stuns. Best being defined as a measure of cooldown/cost (if any), duration, range, AOE vs. ST, etc. Melee probably get best interrupts, ranged get best snares/roots/slows, etc.

    Interrupts:
    Have bosses that cast things that can be interrupted. Tie these mechanics to less scripted timers forcing people to adapt and be aware and also have failure to interrupt not be instant death. I.e. damage spikes on a tank, they react by shifting to more defense and healers focus on more triage to stabilize. Maybe missing an interrupt spawns an add, creates a dangerous void zone, destroys part of room, causes enraged status for a brief period, spikes burst damage, drains resources, heals adds/boss (less strict hard enrage timers, but much more soft enrage design), etc.

    Slows:
    Enemies that need to be slowed to better control flow of incoming damage. Maybe allow bosses to be slowed and let a tank kite to give healers time to catch up/drop stacks, etc.

    Stuns:
    I want to bring in this concept of "CC armor" here. Have bosses do special attacks, again on not strictly coded timers, that require coordinated CC from the team to delay/prevent. B&S/Wildstar used this system to great effect IMO. Enemies and bosses would have varying levels of CC armor for their attacks and each job/role would have varying degrees of effectiveness in those stuns. CC would only be available during the boss' attack. Think of it like this:

    Boss has 5 different basic abilities:
    Tankbuster
    Raid AOE pulse
    Persistent Voidzone
    Self Buff that grants damage buff and vuln down buff.
    Resource Drain

    Lets say every 45s or so the boss cycles through these 5 100% of the time, but possibly up to like 6 or 7 times.

    The idea would be as a team you'd decide which of these are the most dangerous to you at any given time. Imagine your tank is out of cooldowns, and is at 26% HP. You see a tankbuster casting. By time it finishes the healer might be able to get tank up to 55% HP. It might be safer to CC that, ignoring the tankbuster, and eat the persistent voidzone that makes the room smaller/makes follow up mechanics harder.

    What happens is the encounter becomes dynamic. You now have a smaller room, but safer health pools. What happens if you do this strat 5 times? Now you have very little room. That's dangerous. Imagine if over the course of the fight, you're close to killing, but the boss has gained 6 stacks of damage up. That means any raid wide damage or tankbuster going off could be a wipe. You prioritize those and push the DPS and try and clear. Failing a CC isn't a wipe. It's a choice that impacts how to approach the fight and lets you work around your comps. Imagine one raid night you're stuck with 4 melee. That means raid wide damage isn't hard to heal (everyones stacked), but space is paramount, so you focus on interrupting those abilities and eat the damage taken ones.

    Tanking Paradigm:
    I will go into more detail in the Paladin bit further below, but for now I want to touch more on the concept. Tanks have 4 main responsibilities. That is Threat, DPS, Mitigation, and Positioning. Currently I feel that NONE of these responsibilities are captured well. Threat is irrelevant, DPS is passive, Mitigation is one and done, and bosses RARELY move. Under my proposed paradigm A tank has to spend its resources on which of categories it needs at any time and that will shift multiple times. The other bit of design I'm interested in capturing is that a tank can adapt to his group. If his healers are weak and his DPS are strong, he can focus on covering for the healers. Alternatively, if DPS is bad, threat is less important, but damage checks might need help getting through allowing a tank to shift his resources to DPS expenditures.

    Tank Swaps:
    Ideally I'd like to see tank swaps be less taunt at X stacks or taunt to invuln Y. I honestly don't think that's good design. Better design would be a system that allows swaps to be more organic/dynamic as well as more defined roles.

    Example mechanics:
    Boss hits hard and frequently. You would alternate based on the inability for a healer to stabilize a tank's health pool, this would give time to let the other tank recover slowly over time.
    Boss hits a tank with a debuff that enables them to do XYZ mechanic. I.e. Clear void zones, kill certain adds, survive XYZ. Maybe the debuff causes a rapid HP drain on the tank, thus having them tank and soak the debuff simultaneously, would be incredibly difficult to deal with.
    Periodic add spawns during boss fight (not intermission style that is commonly used) that give a reason to swap tanks or pull a tank off normal duty.
    Healing Paradigms:
    Ideally my goal is to shift healing from the concept of reactionary burst healing to a more proactive triage style of healing. That means damage incoming faster and not nearly as scripted. To offset this it'd be balanced based on less bursty damage.

    Healers would have skills that offered choices in triage:
    WHM example:
    Cure: which is a fast cast, moderate power, expensive cost heal. You'd use this in more emergency related situations.
    Cure II: which is a moderate cast, moderate power, and moderate cost heal. This is your balanced heal most likely used on frequent damage receiving targets like tanks.
    Regen: would be your low cost, moderate power over time, and fast cast. Would be valuable to ensure high uptime given its low cost and solid power over time.
    Cure III: would fill a powerful AOE heal with limited range, fast cast, and expensive cost. This is your AOE stabilization spell. You couldn't sustain a raid very long with frequent casts of this, but its useful in its speed and burst healing.
    Medica I: would fill the niche of moderate power AOE heal, slow cast, and low cost. The opposite of Cure III. You'd use this when you are ahead of the curve and to offset obvious incoming burst damage. Not strong for stabilizing parties rapidly.
    Medica II: would provide very low power AOE heal, fast cast, moderate cost, and offers moderate healing of time effect with a large range. This would be the tool to help prepare and recover from big damage over a period of time. It doesn't do a significant amount of healing up front, but helpful in slowly recovering the entire party.

  4. #47364
    Why is it all im seeing in these latest posts is "theres not enough WoW in my Final Fantasy"

  5. #47365
    The Unstoppable Force Granyala's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Itori View Post
    Why is it all im seeing in these latest posts is "theres not enough WoW in my Final Fantasy"
    Because FF-XIV is pretty much a WoW clone with better gfx and way more interesting plot?
    And catgirls. Obviously.

    Funsies aside: the last thing I want is for the game to become faster. Many may enjoy the twitch gameplay, I do not. In fact, for me, many of the reaction times required are already frustratingly short with even a seconds hesitation being punished by an instagib. I want more dynamic stuff, more "thinking on your feet and improvising/strategy" and less "yo, react super fast and mash buttons super fast or your die!".

    Yeah, I'll show myself out. <_<

  6. #47366
    Quote Originally Posted by KrayZ33 View Post
    You (guys) are fishing for something here that was never part of the discussion or even the problem.
    Are we? We've been discussing how the boundries of the gameplay and design space are confined by the game engine. This much is true of all games.
    You're discussing something completely different to the rest of us right now

    Quote Originally Posted by KrayZ33 View Post
    Stuff like.. what's that dungeon called again, the former high-end dungeon? where you drop the blue-burn onto furniture?
    That works instantly and fine too???
    Odd - I've always had to click on the object to transfer the fire.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wrecktangle View Post
    @StrawberryZebra & @KrayZ33

    I've made dozens of posts in the past on this topic.
    As a rule, I approve of soft enrages in general. They usually open up different routes to success based on your group, which is a solid move away from rigidly scripted encounters, even if the boss itself would still be rigidly scripted. I don't disagree with most of your ideas in principle though.

    I do also like the idea of a boss who deals more damage based on a targets missing health - Especially if it's based on giving them extra attack speed. That kind of mechanic would be ideal for a giant carnivore type beast monster.

    There is a lot of space within the mechanics FF14 does offer, they're just shunned in favour of the more heavilly scripted Safety Dance type bosses. I mean, they're not bad, but they could be so much more varied.

    As for healers... I don't know. I've only been playing Scholar because it's the only job I have at level 80 and, honestly, it's a complete Frankenstein of a job right now. The summoner is too for that matter. They've both got so many relics of their older designs that have been over written as expansions have progressed. I know I've frequently criticised the Fairy Gauge and for good reason. It's a bolt-on excuse to give the job a gauge, nothing more. The two abilities you can spend it on are very lackluster when you consider the process you need to go through in order to get a weak AoE heal on a 1 min CD.

    If it were up to me, I'd tie almost all of the Scholars healing to the Fairy Gauge. I'd also only have the Fairy cast spells when ordered, and all of their spells consume Fairy Gauge. It creates a more fluid game play loop, where the Scholar deals damage, their pet heals and delivers better on the promise of a Pet based healing Job. I'd also differentiate between their pets too. I'd keep Eos as the healing one, but move Selene or Seraph into being the Shielding one to mirror the Astrologian's Sects.

    As for the Summoner... It's just a complete mess at this point. It's slowly moved away from being a DoT Mage into a pet DPS Job, which is more in line with the identity players want for the job, but it really suffers from janky mechanics of it's older itterations. I'm really not sure where I would go with this one. I'd probably redo it from scratch, remove their DoT based abilities and push it into being a Pet job entirely, right from level 1. I'd probably also keep the cyclical rotation of their summons too, and add in a couple of the other Primals like Leviathan and Ramuh. So you'd be cycling between which Pet you had at any one time, and they'd all come with their own set of Enkindle abilities and unique special attacks.

    Plus this would open the door for an actual DoT based damage dealer to be added further down the line. Green Mage perhaps? I don't know, I suppose a melee DoT based Job would work out too.

  7. #47367
    Herald of the Titans Advent's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by StrawberryZebra View Post
    Have you ever played a Tank? It's super easy to notice the janky movements and slow positioning updating when you're trying to pick up mobs or reposition them. Mobs will slide from one position to another, will take several seconds to register that they've been hit and should be following the tank, not the healer and even get strange pathing issues around LoS. It's not a case of animations being out of sync with the effects - That's an entirely different issue all together.

    It's also very obvious if you've ever played a Melee and tried to hit a moving target. Your skill will start to trigger as if you're in range, then even though the distance between yourself and the mob remains the same, fail for being out of range.

    Even if you've never played a tank or melee, how have you not noticed how janky movement skills are over AoE? If the AoE is narrow enough, or your dash fast enough, you can dart across them completely unscathed if you time it well with the server ticks. Those skills are not a continuous line of movement, but instead a dotted line where the server registers your position on each point, but not the space in between.

    It's probably most easilly seen with AoE's that apply a Debuff to you. You can stand in them for several seconds between server ticks before you get the debuff applied. I'm glad you brought up E7, because the colision with the Bird Clouds is also a very obvious example to point to. You can pass through the animation and take the hit a second or two later, likewise you can also be hit a second or two before the animation physically hits you.

    You can even see it in cutscenes. When characters are walking off screen, it's blatently obvious that they all turn one by one, and all set off walking one by one. I don't think that's an artistic decision, it seems to be an engine limitation.

    I mean could point out examples all day, but hopefully you get the point. The game updates player positions server side on a tick by tick basis, and that leads to all kinds of janky gameplay issues.
    I've brought this up to people I know who play the game and they just don't seem to get it, even using the exact example with tanks and melee that you used. At this point, either I'm terrible at explaining the issue or people are completely blind to it.
    Quote Originally Posted by StrawberryZebra View Post
    Yes indeed. Its why the job design is overloaded and bloaty. It's that way to distract you from the fact that the bosses themselves are basic, you just didn't notice that you were stood in the fire because you were tunnel visioning on your Ninjutsu instead.

    Which is another problem entirely. It can sometimes seem like you're fighting the UI more than the boss. I went ahead and added some homebrew mods to my UI and, honestly, I just sailed right through Eden's Verse Savage without any serious problems. I mean, Scholar is one of the easiest Jobs in the game, but when you can keep track of everything important all in one place, all you've got to focus on is boss mechanics.
    God I wish I could do the same, because this game seems to compel me to tunnel vision the UI instead of the boss, and I get hit by stuff constantly, even after 5 years.

  8. #47368
    The Unstoppable Force Granyala's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by StrawberryZebra View Post
    Odd - I've always had to click on the object to transfer the fire.
    Wait, what? You can click stuff to transfer the fire? Oo
    I typically just stand there before the debuff hits and it transfers automatically.

  9. #47369
    Quote Originally Posted by StrawberryZebra View Post
    Are we? We've been discussing how the boundries of the gameplay and design space are confined by the game engine. This much is true of all games.
    You're discussing something completely different to the rest of us right now
    Yes, the discussion "started" when you quoted me
    And then you went on about how FFXIV can't achieve 1:1 replicas of WoW mechanics, when we have watered down versions of them already in the game.
    You kept saying that X and Y is not possible, ignoring the facts that X and Y are already in the game.
    You are now looking/fishing for a mechanic that is impossible to achieve in FFXIV, when the problem could probably be fixed with things that are currently in game by.

    Just why? Everything we do in FFXIV is not as smooth as in WoW. That's no secret. We, as a player, have always adjusted to that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Granyala View Post
    Wait, what? You can click stuff to transfer the fire? Oo
    I typically just stand there before the debuff hits and it transfers automatically.
    You don't have to click anything. I don't think you even can but who knows, I never did that.
    Last edited by KrayZ33; 2020-06-16 at 04:29 AM.

  10. #47370
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    Quote Originally Posted by Itori View Post
    Why is it all im seeing in these latest posts is "theres not enough WoW in my Final Fantasy"
    WoW is dying so some people need a new WoW and this is the next big MMO. Then there's the vets who want something new in PvE and apparently ShB has been really bad at providing that so WoW PvE is a good thing to use for comparison.

    Quote Originally Posted by StrawberryZebra View Post
    Odd - I've always had to click on the object to transfer the fire.
    You can actually just run through it. It might take a moment for it to take the flame sometimes though. Good old FF servers.

    Quote Originally Posted by StrawberryZebra View Post
    As for healers... I don't know. I've only been playing Scholar because it's the only job I have at level 80 and, honestly, it's a complete Frankenstein of a job right now. The summoner is too for that matter. They've both got so many relics of their older designs that have been over written as expansions have progressed. I know I've frequently criticised the Fairy Gauge and for good reason. It's a bolt-on excuse to give the job a gauge, nothing more. The two abilities you can spend it on are very lackluster when you consider the process you need to go through in order to get a weak AoE heal on a 1 min CD.

    If it were up to me, I'd tie almost all of the Scholars healing to the Fairy Gauge. I'd also only have the Fairy cast spells when ordered, and all of their spells consume Fairy Gauge. It creates a more fluid game play loop, where the Scholar deals damage, their pet heals and delivers better on the promise of a Pet based healing Job. I'd also differentiate between their pets too. I'd keep Eos as the healing one, but move Selene or Seraph into being the Shielding one to mirror the Astrologian's Sects.
    I really don't mind the gauge at all, though I've only seen SCH up to 50 pre-ShB so I don't know how much of a Frankenstein it is now and what the gauge used to do before, but I enjoy it at 80.

    I think the fairy gauge and aetherflow have alright synergy. It's like DKs where you mainly spend runes and through that build runic power for fillers. Maybe I feel different about it because I consider aetherflow to be the main focus and the fairy gauge just a bonus you build up to use as filler.

    As for the fairy yeah I felt her presence more when I could manually cast Embrace but that's not really saying much. I really just place her in the middle of the room and treat her like a totem, and if more of the heals came from her I doubt she would still be anything but a totem to me. And Seraph is so underwhelming, it's just a glorified Rouse.
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  11. #47371
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    Quote Originally Posted by Itori View Post
    Why is it all im seeing in these latest posts is "theres not enough WoW in my Final Fantasy"
    It's been like that since I first started checking this thread last year. But also the fact that there's a content lull atm.
    Honorary member of the Baine Fanclub, the only member really.

  12. #47372
    Quote Originally Posted by Hyral View Post
    WoW is dying so some people need a new WoW and this is the next big MMO. Then there's the vets who want something new in PvE and apparently ShB has been really bad at providing that so WoW PvE is a good thing to use for comparison.
    Yeah, let's copy a 'dying' game. That sounds like a good idea.

    I like FFXIV's endgame PvE because its mostly weekly based and I can reach an 'endpoint' relatively easily based on my goals. Once you get your jobs capped and at a good spot, its play 1-2 times a week and you're done. WoW takes too much time away from other games I like to play and hobbies I like to work on. I want a place where I can say "Alright, I'm good," not "I can always get one better."

    Anyone who wants more out of XIV should take Yoshi-P's advice when you're done with current patch content and bored of playing: Take a break, unsub and play other games. It'll be there when you get back the next patch. Could you imagine WoW developers saying that?

    Edit: Thinking about it, maybe 1 game gamers just need to go away. Wanting one game to do everything just makes it a mess. Another of many reasons I can't play WoW that often. I'd rather it just be good at being an MMORPG, not a pet battle, competitive pvp, hardcore dungeon racer, or whatever else there is that I'm not thinking of right now game.
    Last edited by Mesoforte; 2020-06-16 at 05:10 AM.

  13. #47373
    Quote Originally Posted by Itori View Post
    Why is it all im seeing in these latest posts is "theres not enough WoW in my Final Fantasy"
    Because WoW is superior so people are probably confused as to why other games are not copy-paste of WoW's systems.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mesoforte View Post
    Yeah, let's copy a 'dying' game. That sounds like a good idea.

    I like FFXIV's endgame PvE because its mostly weekly based and I can reach an 'endpoint' relatively easily based on my goals. Once you get your jobs capped and at a good spot, its play 1-2 times a week and you're done. WoW takes too much time away from other games I like to play and hobbies I like to work on. I want a place where I can say "Alright, I'm good," not "I can always get one better."

    Anyone who wants more out of XIV should take Yoshi-P's advice when you're done with current patch content and bored of playing: Take a break, unsub and play other games. It'll be there when you get back the next patch. Could you imagine WoW developers saying that?
    Nah I didn't say to copy it, just that there's things in WoW's PvE that could be looked at for comparison in how to improve encounters in FF. And with ShB not really doing anything new that I can notice (the Nier raid didn't even bring any new mechanics or innovation unlike all of the previous alliance raids for the other expansion) it makes sense people look for ideas elsewhere, now more than ever.

    For example if you are OT in most content outside savage then 90% of the time you are literally doing nothing at all outside occasionally throwing your mitigation buff to the MT. WoW has plenty of encounters with more than one boss or with plenty of taunt trades, at least those things could be used in more than a few Alexander fights so the OT isn't literally just sitting there twiddling their thumbs. That's just one example of something WoW does well and could be applied to FF with almost no adverse effect.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mesoforte View Post
    Edit: Thinking about it, maybe 1 game gamers just need to go away. Wanting one game to do everything just makes it a mess. Another of many reasons I can't play WoW that often. I'd rather it just be good at being an MMORPG, not a pet battle, competitive pvp, hardcore dungeon racer, or whatever else there is that I'm not thinking of right now game.
    That's a weird thing to add given that's pretty much what FF does. A large variety of content with no clear end-game focus. It's also why I prefer it over WoW.
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  15. #47375
    Over 9000! Poppincaps's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SkagenRora View Post
    Because WoW is superior so people are probably confused as to why other games are not copy-paste of WoW's systems.
    Is it though? Shadowbringers is far better than BfA is.

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    Scarab Lord TriHard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SkagenRora View Post
    Because WoW is superior so people are probably confused as to why other games are not copy-paste of WoW's systems.
    Yet Shadowbringers blows everything WoW has ever had (except for the pvp) out of the water, not even WotLK was as solid as that expansion. Sure, WoW does a lot of good shit with their game, the PVP for example is vastly superior to any MMO out there.

    And it sounds like you're a pretty new WoW player because if you had been around from the start then you would've known that WoW copypasted entire systems made from older mmos and just made them more polished, it's not at all "wow's systems"
    Where do you think WoW's idea of scaling came from? Games like GW2 and ESO ofc

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    The Unstoppable Force Granyala's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Poppincaps View Post
    Is it though? Shadowbringers is far better than BfA is.
    I'd say Blizzards raid design pretty much is superior to FF-XIVs and WoW runs circles around XIV in terms of system responsiveness and customization.
    Not the overall laser focus on raiding though and most certainly not in terms of storytelling.

    If we're honest: both games have strong and weak points and each has it's charm.

  18. #47378
    Over 9000! Poppincaps's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Granyala View Post
    I'd say Blizzards raid design pretty much is superior to FF-XIVs and WoW runs circles around XIV in terms of system responsiveness and customization.
    Not the overall laser focus on raiding though and most certainly not in terms of storytelling.

    If we're honest: both games have strong and weak points and each has it's charm.
    WoW prides itself on its endgame systems. BfA's endgame systems are horrible. Azerite Armor and Power, Essences, and Corruption are all shit. Uldir was meh, Battle of Dazar'alor is top tier, Eternal Palace is good, Nya'lotha is okay. Season 1 of M+ was shit, Season 2 was great, Season 3 was shit, and Season 4 is pretty good.

    FFXIV prides itself on its story and casual endgame. Shadowbringers is one of the best stories I've played in a video game and I think the raids and trials so far have been a lot of fun. It's not a game that has a ton of longevity at endgame, but patches release frequently enough that it's not that much of a problem.

    If we base it purely off of the experience that players expect from these respective games, Shadowbringers has satisfied its players far more than BfA has. There's really no argument to be made really.

  19. #47379
    Quote Originally Posted by TriHard View Post
    Yet Shadowbringers blows everything WoW has ever had (except for the pvp) out of the water, not even WotLK was as solid as that expansion. Sure, WoW does a lot of good shit with their game, the PVP for example is vastly superior to any MMO out there.

    And it sounds like you're a pretty new WoW player because if you had been around from the start then you would've known that WoW copypasted entire systems made from older mmos and just made them more polished, it's not at all "wow's systems"
    Where do you think WoW's idea of scaling came from? Games like GW2 and ESO ofc
    Nothing shadowbringers do can make up for the global cooldown or bloated ability bar.

    Until they fix the 40 (exaggeration i know) ability rotation then everything else is just null & void. Make the gameplay fun first.

  20. #47380
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    Quote Originally Posted by SkagenRora View Post
    Because WoW is superior so people are probably confused as to why other games are not copy-paste of WoW's systems.
    Nice meme, no really I find that quite amusing.
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