Pvp power back? God yes

[gd8]

If gear shouldn't matter in PVP then it shouldn't matter in PVE either

you say that as if it's wrong

[protpaul]

I only see positives from this though
Character progression for PvP players
Pure PvP gearing
Is butiful

I mean... sure if you never touch rated and have a desire to out gear people I can see the draw but I'm not sure any of that is a positive...

[alexchaos]

Only problem with that system was that 98% of your bags was different gear pieces. Honestly they should either make craftbag like in ESO where all your crafting materials etc goes automatically and it is endless. Or make a wardrobe for gear where you can chose your gear pieces and sets so there will be more space in bags. Or give every player free bank summoning ability with no CD could work too.

It's not really different today with corruption/azerite power gear, you need different sets of gear with different specs. It's always been a problem and I'm surprised Blizz hasn't found a new system for that yet..

[Ihazpaws]

It's not really different today with corruption/azerite power gear, you need different sets of gear with different specs. It's always been a problem and I'm surprised Blizz hasn't found a new system for that yet..

Ye but think about current situation + add every set with pvp power too.

[Taylorbro]

I think Warlords had it best in the pvp format, everyone that entered a bg at least had a certain item level pre built in with pvp gear having a 10 item level difference ( about a 20 percent boost in dmg/ healing etc) That way your fresh green mage was able to participate just fine but it still had a sense of progression. I mean hell legion actually took MORE time to even get up to speed with its artifact weapon and pvp talents then warlords did by DAYS lol. Also warlords had wacky offset pvp pieces were you could change your stats, of course there was meta but for example me and my bro for random bgs had a mastery stacking stat for marksmanship. Normally mastery was considered "useless" in pvp because it did not work if you moved, but boy did it make you hit hard, and that's what being a rpg is about letting you yourself try out wacky combos not the game forcing you into 1 thing only.

[Azerate]

I honestly have no idea why they removed PvP stat specific gear in the first place. I used to be a PvE player and played a lot of PvP in my spare time, gathering a seperate gearset. It was fun and gave something to do. PvP gear (if it is even called that) right now is just another source for gear which is almost always worse than the gear you get from a mythic + dungeon.

Let the pvp stats roll!

Because it's all part of one game and your accolades in one area should affect other areas. If you can rank 0,001% in arenas (or whatever that is) you should be able to then take that gear and progress a raid with it, and if you're good enough to do a mythic raid, you should then be able to take that gear and prevail in pvp situations.

Also, pvp is the second thought for most people, so allowing them to use pve gear and not be severely handicapped means that it's way more welcoming than if you have a completely separate pvp gear.

[Danvash]

I want gear to matter, but they should also allow freshly leveled alts to start with a minimum template so they aren't completely useless until you've done a month of grinding. Imagine going through all that and then hating how the class plays at max level with essences and corruption.

[Kalisandra]

We shall not have different sets for PvE/PvP. Carrying multiple sets like azerite armor / corruption is the worst gear design in wow history.

No worse than having a complete set for tanking, another for healing, and yet another for DPS, plus a half-set or more of PvP healing gear and another half-set or more of PvP DPS gear. That was what some hybrids would be carrying in their bags from BC to Cata.

[BeepBoo]

Why not just have gear not matter in PvP...didn't legion work like this, or was it WOD?

I really love the concept of gear not mattering, but the system had a few problems

1) Power still mattered in PVP, even with templates. It was less meaningful, but they didn't do away with it 100% like they should have.
2) The balance of the templates sucked. Hard. It proved how oblivious blizz was to how certain specs function.
3) Despite having nearly 100% of the control to balance with the easiest fucking knobs in the world (literally the entire point of templates), they still only balanced once a blue moon, instead of weekly or at least monthly like they should have
4) Certain specs were still left in the dust because their kits just don't work well in pvp. Thanks to blizz's dumb (IMO) design, your comp has to have 3 things to win pvp in addition to proper team communication, etc:

Short CD mitigation
High amounts of non DRing CC
Huge burst setup

Anything else will be less ideal and really easy to counter-play. This means not every setup, let alone spec, has a place in super high-end comps. Not that they aren't viable, but getting to 2400 on, say, ret is harder than 2400 on rogue.

4) (this is the big one) Apparently people don't really even want a balanced PVP experience. Most people want that easy rofl-stomp where they just throw their gear at the other player team every once-in-a-while instead of having to actually gitGud.

[protpaul]

I want gear to matter, but they should also allow freshly leveled alts to start with a minimum template so they aren't completely useless until you've done a month of grinding. Imagine going through all that and then hating how the class plays at max level with essences and corruption.

I find it really odd that people want gear to matter. Any successful pvp game usually runs by the opposite model or has items you acquire in match that dont carry over.

[ashblond]

No worse than having a complete set for tanking, another for healing, and yet another for DPS, plus a half-set or more of PvP healing gear and another half-set or more of PvP DPS gear. That was what some hybrids would be carrying in their bags from BC to Cata.

I am not talking about hybrid classes that carry different gear for different roles. It is understandable for different specs.

I am specifically against the azerite/corruption model, when people carry trait a/b/c set, corruption x/y/z set. They are necessarily over complicated and will never be balanced.

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I find it really odd that people want gear to matter. Any successful pvp game usually runs by the opposite model or has items you acquire in match that dont carry over.

WoW is a RPG game after all. It is not MOBA like DOTA or RTS like Starcraft.

As long as the gear item level difference in each season is not huge, and gear is acquired proportionally via skill, not totally RNG (azerite traits, corruptions, WF/TF), it should be ok.

[ymirsson]

and gear is acquired proportionally via skill,.

Are you still talking about WoW Pvp? It doesnt sound like it.

[protpaul]

I am not talking about hybrid classes that carry different gear for different roles. It is understandable for different specs.

I am specifically against the azerite/corruption model, when people carry trait a/b/c set, corruption x/y/z set. They are necessarily over complicated and will never be balanced.

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WoW is a RPG game after all. It is not MOBA like DOTA or RTS like Starcraft.

As long as the gear item level difference in each season is not huge, and gear is acquired proportionally via skill, not totally RNG (azerite traits, corruptions, WF/TF), it should be ok.

I don't really understand why people say rpg game as a argument.

There are tons of rpg games without gear or even leveling.

Rpg just means role playing game. It isnt an argument.

[ashblond]

I don't really understand why people say rpg game as a argument.

There are tons of rpg games without gear or even leveling.

Rpg just means role playing game. It isnt an argument.

because players want something to show off. that is just the nature of the game.

If pvp only reward ratings and titles, it is like raiders only get achievement from raids but no gear. Pvp gear and set is just a reward element for pvper.

If gear shall not matter at all in pvp, everyone shall just join arena naked, and pvp never reward any gear. That won't be fun, rewarding or motivating for long term.

[BeepBoo]

WoW is a RPG game after all.

I swear to god... every fucking thread has SOMEONE posting this...

It is not MOBA like DOTA or RTS like Starcraft.

the pvp aspect SHOULD BE. You're playing pvp to fucking prove you're better than someone else. Period. If you're not doing it for that, you should stop. That is the point of all competitive activities. IDK a single person other than someone who sucks at pvp that enjoys getting victories because their GEAR is better than someone else.

it should be ok.

Not really. It leads to situations of people who might be as good, but who are newer, not having an opportunity to compete. If some random person can step into an NBA game and dunk on lebron, let them. They shouldn't have to dunk on a 12 ft goal while lebron gets the 10 ft just because they're new. Experience and skill (and, in wow... team comp) can already serve those purposes well enough.

[protpaul]

because players want something to show off. that is just the nature of the game.

If pvp only reward ratings and titles, it is like raiders only get achievement from raids but no gear. Pvp gear and set is just a reward element for pvper.

If gear shall not matter at all in pvp, everyone shall just join arena naked, and pvp never reward any gear. That won't be fun, rewarding or motivating for long term.

It makes sense to reward cosmetics not power.

I would argue pvp rewards right now are pretty well tuned if there must be rewards 1800 is roughly on par with heroic raiding in terms of skill.

[Beefkow]

I hope this is actually true.

Say goodbye to scaling, and hello to gear.

[WhirlwindTV]

I have zero desire for PvP Power/PvP Resilience to return. It was a huge problem back in the days they existed because it only further widens the gap for classes/specs that have inherent defense and those that are weaker and thus the always train targets.

The problem with gearing right now is not something that would be solved by a PvP only stat. It IS reasonably solved by what they said they were doing, putting in vendors for the base items and then making conquest points level those items up like how the benthic gear worked. People had to PvE to get gear not because of the randomness of the PvP item drop (though that did contribute a little), it was mostly because the PvP gear was horribly itemized. As an Enhance Sham, if I want Haste/Vers on my gear, literally only 1 piece of PvP gear this season actually had that stat combination. So having a vendor that carried the same horribly itemized PvP gear doesn't actually fix that problem whatsoever.

So yeah, no I don't see any way that having another PvP only stat fixes anything that the benthic-like upgradable system that they said they were putting in doesn't, and in fact generally only makes things worse because it puts a wall between PvE and PvP for those players that enjoy doing both but overburdens them with requirements to get multiple sets.

[arr0gance]

Relevant

OT: This is bad.

[Gotural]

I love it.

Bring back Resilience aswell, I'd love to be able to 1v4 undergeared people easily like back in the day.

A hero needs the greatest sword to slain the mightiest dragon, I don't know why an assassin wouldn't need a good dagger to have a chance to defeat a great warrior.

#GearMatters #LegionWasTerrible