Sylvanas Is Evil, Just Admit It

[Varodoc]

I find Sylvanas interesting because she's evil and nihilist, I don't see the point in pretending that she is not evil or has a good agenda, especially when the story completely contradicts that.

That being said, I wouldn't have a problem if Sylvanas realized at the very end that what she did was wrong. But she doesn't deserve to redeem herself.

[Sarkli83]

She ain't evil. She just needs to get laid.

[Dastreus]

Could've made the morally grey argument for her before Legion. Hell, maybe even through Legion to a degree. The Val'kyr thing wasn't... so bad, all things considered. But the moment she started the war post-Legion, and then burned Teldrassil? Naw, no grey. Just evil.

[bowlink]

Could've made the morally grey argument for her before Legion. Hell, maybe even through Legion to a degree. The Val'kyr thing wasn't... so bad, all things considered. But the moment she started the war post-Legion, and then burned Teldrassil? Naw, no grey. Just evil.

I think the said the world of azeroth is morally grey. Not sylvanas. She been morally black since Cata, and arguable since Frozen Throne. But since she used evil methods against the dreadlords and Othmar Garrithos then nobody cared.

[Justpassing]

I haven't gone through 26 freakin' pages to see if it's a repost (It's a wonder how this no-brainer got so far tho), but this bit sums the whole thing I feel:



Get over her already.

[bowlink]

I haven't gone through 26 freakin' pages to see if it's a repost (It's a wonder how this no-brainer got so far tho), but this bit sums the whole thing I feel:



Get over her already.

I'm more of fan of seeing sylvanas as the Bbq pig from the simpsons and the Sylvanas stans as homer simpson going: she just burned a tree full of innocent civilians she's still good she's still good,
she blighted her own troops she's still good good,
She sold out and drowned her own troops she's still good she's still good.

Face it she was launched out that dam back in cata

[rrayy]

Why is it important for you to point that out?

Why is important for you to riup the Sylvanas fans for how they feel? AFter all, you did it first, and I was pointing out that you are just as guilty as you claim they are.

[Mardux]

Could've made the morally grey argument for her before Legion. Hell, maybe even through Legion to a degree. The Val'kyr thing wasn't... so bad, all things considered. But the moment she started the war post-Legion, and then burned Teldrassil? Naw, no grey. Just evil.

Yeah... did they retcon before the storm already? If you had read that (and had a bit of critical thinking skills) you'd have known it was calia that restarted the war with Anduin's help.

[Dejavuproned]

Yeah... did they retcon before the storm already? If you had read that (and had a bit of critical thinking skills) you'd have known it was calia that restarted the war with Anduin's help.

What? Did YOU read before the storm? That's not at all what happened? How deep into the sylvanas coolaid are you?

Calia might have caused a situation there but her intent was to unit her people. It was kinda stupid, but she did not start a war. And sylvanas was the one who ordered the massacre of her own people to cull hope, because that's what she does.

Maybe you should look past your own biases.

Sent from my CLT-L04 using Tapatalk

[huth]

Yeah... did they retcon before the storm already? If you had read that (and had a bit of critical thinking skills) you'd have known it was calia that restarted the war with Anduin's help.

I'm fairly sure stretching that much isn't even remotely healthy.

After all, that situation also featured Sylvanas ordering her own people shot in the face for not daring to refuse her will.

[Dastreus]

Yeah... did they retcon before the storm already? If you had read that (and had a bit of critical thinking skills) you'd have known it was calia that restarted the war with Anduin's help.

2 people already dunked on your very wrong comment, but why not 3? Calia went there in disguise to see the people and event. She didn't start shit. Sylvanas went mental on the Forsaken there, though.

[Soon-TM]

Night elves piss me off with both their characters. I really hate that always mad bigot Tyrande(although I agree that she is quite pretty) and her plot armored husband. Moreover, I can't stand night elf fans. They are always so entitled and always pretend to be victims of grand scheme of evil Blizzard.

I can't help but to actually pity them. They are always the sacrificial lamb so that humans can jump to the rescue of those dark-skinned damsels in distress - and Anduin didn't even bother to bail them the last time. Tyrande suffers the most from this, and her hubby is constantly relegated to the drop scene, even (or probably because) he's grossly OP and, more importantly, it would be ridiculous for him to meekly yield before dat Human Potential™, given his background.

Not that background matters a lot for Danuser & co., but still...

- - - Updated - - -

She didn't start shit. Sylvanas went mental on the Forsaken there, though.

Maybe she didn't, but you are forgetting about this little thing in Stormheim between Sylvanas and Genn. By displaying Genn's unpunished ass right before Sylvanas in the very Gathering, Anduin was clearly implying that he cared little about peace, in spite of his mild, soft manners. Therefore, even if Sylvie hadn't been the Stupid Evil™ !@#$% that she ended being, she might have reasonably been suspicious about the presence of a direct competitor for the throne of Lordaeron in the meeting.

[Raisei]

Maybe she didn't, but you are forgetting about this little thing in Stormheim between Sylvanas and Genn. By displaying Genn's unpunished ass right before Sylvanas in the very Gathering, Anduin was clearly implying that he cared little about peace, in spite of his mild, soft manners. Therefore, even if Sylvie hadn't been the Stupid Evil™ !@#$% that she ended being, she might have reasonably been suspicious about the presence of a direct competitor for the throne of Lordaeron in the meeting.

If you still haven't realized that Sylvanas started the war because she wanted to start a war then you are extremly resilient to facts and nothing we can say will make you see the truth.

But apart from that, you say parading Genn in front of Sylvanas is an afront. Like... wow, just wow. Let's just forget that the Banshee blighted his homeland, killed thousands of his people and murdered his son, Genn should really get over it, but it is truely an afront to make Sylvanas look at him.

Only in the Horde apologists will you find people that blame victims of genocide for striking back against the murderers of their families.

[bowlink]

If you still haven't realized that Sylvanas started the war because she wanted to start a war then you are extremly resilient to facts and nothing we can say will make you see the truth.

But apart from that, you say parading Genn in front of Sylvanas is an afront. Like... wow, just wow. Let's just forget that the Banshee blighted his homeland, killed thousands of his people and murdered his son, Genn should really get over it, but it is truely an afront to make Sylvanas look at him.

Only in the Horde apologists will you find people that blame victims of genocide for striking back against the murderers of their families.

I always see horde apologists as holding up these pamphlets with all the grievances the alliance commited, the pamphlets are really just postage stamps with 4 or 5 things on them depending who you ask. While alliance have an archive full with horde grievances, however seeing its doubtfull the devs will have the horde pay reparations, we have to make do punishing Sylvanas and her resedent neckbeard nathan marris.

[keldarepewpew]

they can do that.

And anyone with a decently functioning brain can call it out as bullshit and say that no "greater good" makes genocide okay. You can't go out of your way to make a character seem as evil as possible (to the point of even pinning wrath gate on her years after the fact despite nobody asking for that) and then go "aha but actually she was not all that bad haha just because we say so expectations subverted."

then again, this is blizzard, so i guess they can do that.

- - - updated - - -


i can sympathize with that, and honestly, i don't 'hate' horde players simply because they play horde. But let's be honest, there are plenty of horde who thought this was actually great and amazing and a return to form for the horde.

I want only one thing as somebody who was once a fan of night elves, and that's for blizzard to stop assigning a singular scapegoat for the actions of a huge swath of the faction to beat down while the rest gets off scot-free. The entire horde doesn't need to be wiped out, but can at least more than just sylvanas and nathanos be held responsible? (and then, only after they left the horde)

the way it's done now almost seems like blizzard is trying to sell the notion that "i was just following," orders was a valid excuse. And no, i don't buy the idea that they were scared to rebel against sylvanas because saurfang did so after lordaeron, baine did so after a single human was raised and slated to be brainwashed and saurfang's "resistance" did so after baine got strung up below orgrimmar. There was obviously some kind of line in the sand where enough is enough and i don't think i'm unreasonable in saying that that line should've been teldrassil to begin with.

Furthermore, in 8.2.5, it's stated several times that at that time, sylvanas' loyal horde exceeds the combined forces of what remained of the alliance (good job, blizzard) and saurfang's rebellion. That means that there were more people loyal to sylvanas than there were people opposing her in the alliance and saurfang's splinter group in total. Their line was drawn when she called them "nothing."

for the horde! That tree had it comming to be honest.

[Varodoc]

Yeah... did they retcon before the storm already? If you had read that (and had a bit of critical thinking skills) you'd have known it was calia that restarted the war with Anduin's help.

Imagine how badly you can misinterpret the story and the message Blizzard wanted to deliver if you genuinely believe Anduin and Calia started the war and Sylvanas is innocent.

Then again you're a Sylvanas fanboy, so I'm not expecting you to present reasonable arguments.

[keldarepewpew]

Yeah... did they retcon before the storm already? If you had read that (and had a bit of critical thinking skills) you'd have known it was calia that restarted the war with Anduin's help.

Dude dont diminish sylvanas her acomplishments by saying those alliance pussies started the war. The horde went for it and we kicked their asses.

[Terongor]

Eh good and evil are just point of views and if sylvanas isn't objectively heck we even have common moral/ethical philosophies which would say she is good.

Its called egoism.

[Kaver]

Why is important for you to riup the Sylvanas fans for how they feel? AFter all, you did it first, and I was pointing out that you are just as guilty as you claim they are.

Because I think that the discussion around Sylvanas is interesting. But you clearly don’t. You think it’s stupid to discuss a fictional character and you’re just here to point out that you think people are stupid for doing so. But I’m not sure what you’re trying to achieve with that? Why is it important for you to tell other people that they are stupid for discussing a fictional character? Why do you care if other people want to waste their time with it? It has nothing to do with you and it doesn’t impact you. You’re just extremely busy with what other people do and I’m not sure why that so important to you? If you think the thread and discussion is stupid then just ignore it. There is no reason to get involved in what other people do. It’s their business. Not yours.

[Wylyth1992]

I find Sylvanas interesting because she's evil and nihilist, I don't see the point in pretending that she is not evil or has a good agenda, especially when the story completely contradicts that.

That being said, I wouldn't have a problem if Sylvanas realized at the very end that what she did was wrong. But she doesn't deserve to redeem herself.

Possibly a "Villain's (Permanent) Dying Grace", which is not the same as a redemption.