Why is Tyrande still the leader of the Night Elves?

[Delano]

Has nothing to do with Tyrande and everything to do with Blizzard's awful writing. Night elves would have the same problems under any other leader.

[Aleksej89]

She is a religious-based leader like the pope in vatican.

Yea she is supposedly also trained as a military commander but frankly that is not shown well in any WoW content.

Lore-wise afaik orcs and their allies on Kalimdor outnumber the Night Elves a 100 to 1 (or even more) so frontal war lore-wise is just not possible for NElves.

[Vaedan]

Under her rule, Night Elves got genocided, lost every battle, lost 99% of their homeland, and yet she never questions herself and even had the audacity to put the blame on Elune.


-Between wc3 and vanilla, she decided to abandon her duties as the leader of the Sentinels and a protector of Ashenvale, and instead ordered her people to leave Ahsenvale for some big tree in the sea (was she that much afraid of the Orcs? Is it why she agreed to side with some human kingdom at the other side of Azeroth?).

-She never helps her people who are getting slaughtered in Ashenvale and Azshara ,invaded and murdered by Orcs, Goblins, etc. and instead her husband sides with Tauren over some night elf victims wanting justice.

-If not for Varian and the worgens, her people would have already been completely wiped out before cata.

-Another evidence that she's bad at military tactics is MoP where Varian has to teach her the basics.

-She is not only bad at military, but as diplomacy as well : She abandons Azshara to the Goblins (who completely destroyed the nature there) in exchange for the Horde not attacking Ashenvale, thus not only defending the Horde interests, but also proving that Garrosh was right to attack them.

-During BFA, not only she is directly responsible for her people losing all of their homeland by ordering her army to leave Ashenvale, but she doesn't even kill the Orc responsible for this and the death of hundreads of her sisters and instead is okay with letting her people become hostages of the Horde and abandons the battlefield while her sisters are still getting killed, fighting the Horde.


Why aren't people more angry toward her? Is it because she looks good?

You are not right in some of those points.

- She has not abandon it. She is still leader of Sentinels, Shandris is secondary leader. Since Tyrande leads even Sisterhood of Elune, she leaves most of the Sentinel operation to Shandris.
- The decision to plant Teldrassil and make home there was made by druids, notable Fandral. Tyrande was in fact in opposition to him.
- Tyrande set up the trade with orcs, which was later interrupted because Twilight Hammer attacked night elves, disguised as Thrall's Horde. I'm not sure if that also led to night elves joining the Alliance.
- She actually leads counter attack when Horde attacks Ashenvale in cata.
- Her people are responsible for worgen joining the Alliance
- Her being taught by Varian in MoP is really bad. It should be Tyrande teaching Varian, but I guess writers wanted to show us how wise Varian is.
- Tyrande abandons Azshara at the end of MoP, meaning the land was in goblin hands for years, so it was most likely in pretty bad shape. Even before goblins went there, Azshara was mostly abandoned by elves, they only had minor settlements here. Ashenvale is way more important for kaldorei.
- in the short story, she wants to depart to Ashenvale and Darkshore immediately. She is convinced by other leaders to stay and help refugees to settle down in Stormwind, which is pretty reasonable. Malfurion went to defend Darkshore, and if Saurfang would not strike him from behind, he would defeated Sylvanas and probably defend Darkshore (defeat of Warchief would probably broke morale of Horde troops badly)
- The decision to send night elf army to Silithus was also made in unison with other Alliance leaders, so Tyrande is not only one to blame. Also, it was a trap. All they knew at that point was that Horde is targeting Silithus and the Wound. Leaving it for the Horde to take would not be great idea either.

What Tyrande managed to do right over years:
- She helped to defeat Eranikus in Moonglade and cleansed him of his corruption
- She decided to lift arcane ban and let Highborne rejoin their people, thus considerable strenghtening them
- She broke Orgrimmar gate during the Siege of Orgrimmar, allowing the siege to be way more faster. That probably saved lives of both Pandaren leaders, since the Ji was about to be executed, and Aysa rushed to his rescue, only to be killed by Kor'kron (if you were slow enough to safe Ji)
- She defended Val'sharah and put corrupted Ysera down
- she took part in successful liberation of Suramar

so, she is not that useless. She is just underrepresented and suffers from the general approach of human potential, as most other races of the Alliance do.

[Mace]

The actual leader is Malfurion but he's basically MIA 99% of the time so Tyrande is there to represent the Night Elves instead. Though admittedly they butchered her character over over time and she's been very inconsistent since the days of WC3, and right now all attentions on Sylvanis instead of her because Blizzard completely destroyed Sylvanis as a character and her logic at the same time.

No, Malfurion never led them officially till recently.

It was Queen Azshara, then after they split, each community had it's leaders, for the main kaldorei group it was Tyrande - Malfurion was saving/healing the world primarily, Tyrande led the people as High Priestess - they and the druids were not joined at the hip - they had totally separate lives and functions - with their race and shared responsibility of the Long Vigil the things that held them together. I suspect the first night elf leader was a Priestess too, and Azshara ascending to prime Monarch was because of how incredibly brilliant she was, I would wager she captured the hearts of her people and inspired them, she showed the great benefits of the arcane, a field she was extremely good at and through which extraordinary things could be achieved. When a society becomes more interested in things and stops valuing the true unquantifiable treasures of life, it will go off kilter - to the night elves, the Queen and the wonders she could pioneer became more important even than their goddess and revere of the wilds. And so Zin'Azshari was renamed.

[QUOTE]
[B][U]Society Development and Future[/U][/B]
Back then, Azshara's arcane leadership and the progress it produced must have amazed them to great levels of awe previously reserved for gods (Elune, demi god Cenarius), but this time the power was in the hands of the night elf – a very heady development for a once primitive people emerging (or awakening as they call it) with god like powers.

This is why arcane development can never capture or snare the hearts of the night elves like it did in the past (they've been there, to the top and fallen too, it's not new any longer), it is also why I feel a fully developed Highborne caste amongst the Darnassians today should not result in the levels of arcane devotion amongst Night elves capable of usurping or undermining that held by the people and druids for nature and the wild gods or that held by the people and priests for Elune like it did towards the end of that era. So those who object to greater NElf arcane development have nothing to fear from a natural rise and advancement of kaldorei arcane institutions returning. it won't spread arcane dependency in the whole race like happened in the pre-sundering era around the invasion era or like exists in the smaller blood elven or Nightborne societies. Or at least it shouldn't. I don't think any night elf (unless they're unhinged) would believe this would happen. Firstly the night elves are much bigger than the other elven off shoots and are the wisest of the groups (most long-lived too alongside the Nightborne), they are also the most complete and so would be model like, having large sections in each area elves are good at, and will be entirely focused on elven life, while the like of Thalassians have always been part of a larger picture involving humans, trolls and orcs etc. And will continue, the Nightborne joining them would likely share that fate, unless blizzard choose to write them more involved with night elf affairs and the night elf world.

This is why it makes me believe that new night elf society in the post-vigil era, i.e. the current era would be far more balanced than before, and actually eventually restore the best of the pre-sundering era and exceed it. We theorise in the other topic here:
[URL="https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/2548541-Night-Elves-Magic-amp-the-Arcane-Common-Misconceptions-amp-Things-You-Didn-t-Consider"]Night Elves, Magic & the Arcane - Common Misconceptions & Things You Didn't Consider [/URL]

that cities would be the frontier of development and progress for the race, especially in the arcane and the places where Highborne would dominate and the priesthood would be intertwined, while the forests would be dominated by druids with the priesthood intertwined - having in a sorts a pre-sundering setting in cities, and a long vigil one in the forests, but an equilibrium, a balance of sorts and harmony that neither previous periods could achieve at their heights- And so this would eventually go the furthest. Gone and never coming back would be the days all the people were swayed into arcane excesses, neither likely to return are the days when total abstinence of the arcane practice and only nature dependence would be the only way to live.

[U]Night Elf Empire Would Not Return[/U]
The night elves no longer need to rule the world or dominate it for this future to happen either, so a night elf empire would never return (and that is not what I mean by best ever) – arcane development will grow, but more responsibly which would also lead to greater long term benefits and progress, and even with an enigmatic Azshara like arcane leader, the people are not primitive any longer, they’re not going to be wow’d by wonders into exalting the arcane on a pedestal, only the Highborne caste and arcane mages will, it won't capture the whole society like before, but then neither would druidism or Elunism, regions would have greater influence of one over the other (like cities and Highborne zones would have higher arcane influence, forests higher nature ones) but the revere for the wilds, and trust in the goddess as well as delight tin the arcane would be equally esteemed, and the experts in the each of these fields (i.e. the mage, priest and druid) would be greatly revered –

What would happen is that the people would have roughly the same reverence for all three, the power of the arcane is phenomenal, but as wielders of it, elves have flaws they must work hard at managing -this keeps you humble, the goddess is a goddess afterall, and that’s incredibly amazing in and of itself, Elune continues to do things for the night elves in ancient time it was her most ruthless phase that helped them and their Moonguard mage armies conquer those what sought to destroy them handing them Kalimdor, and they’ve never forgotten that. Finally nature, nature is what sustains and keeps them alive, keeps them balanced – the fate of the Nightborne is a warning to all elves of what can happen if you indulge in the arcane unchecked and without balance, and nature is the only thing that can remedy that.

So the arcane provides progress and development, the Priesthood humility, discipline and mental health, the druids balance, harmony and physical health and vitality. This is what there civilization would be, regardless if it is led by one individual or several. My preference would be several. Personally, Tyrande Whisperwind would lead the Priesthood Order of Elune, Malfurion the Druids, a restored Prince Farondis the Highborne and civil leadership. when it comes to matters that threaten all night elves the council will operate in concert.

They'll have their own zones and realms - with different communities and community leaders - rather than a monarch like before, it would more be a case of the Orders dominating, and then local government - this wouldn't be as effective for development as leadership under one great leader, but they are no longer in a hurry anymore.
[/QUOTE]





Don't get me wrong, night elves naturally love the arcane too and are definitely drawn to it and will be highly gifted at it - it's in their nature and part of their makeup, but equally so is their benevolence, love of all things living and nature, and their great reverence of the Goddess they believe is the source of their arcane transformation.

The Queen shifted their focus to the arcane, her enigmatic charm and brilliance kept her people's eyes on her first above all other things - she was not just powerful and great sorceress but a clever and ingenious leader (it's the conclusion that makes the most sense). After her demise, the main group had to ban arcane practice to prevent the legion's return, leadership shifted back to the Priesthood and it's High Priestess.

Malfurion Stormrage had made a pact with the Green dragonflight to assist in the important work of the Emerald dream, and his path was nature, under the teachings and guidance of the demi-god Cenarius, who care about nature, not the day to day lives and governance of various species. Malfurion himself like most of his brethren druids were in hibernation periods that lasted millennia - which is why "the old man " night elf look makes no sense, the males should be younger looking than females, I would also imagine being a master of nature - means the healthiest lifestyle even if you're an immortal - but that's another issue

[Arrashi]

Because she is the leader they deserve.

[matrix123mko]

Night Elves have been shafted right from the beginning of WoW. The writers have completely ruined their lore. They were the most powerful race and in fact lead massive wars to save the planet.

Tyrande and Malfuriin are the unfortunate victims of bad writing.

Night Elves are my favourite race because of their lore outside of world of warcraft, Malfurion, Tyrande and Illidan are my 3 favourite characters, alongside Sylvanas, Kael'thas, Jaina and Khadgar. The WoW dev team need to stop using Malf and Tyrande as roadkill and actually write stories befitting their non-WoW lore.

Not really. They were weak since loss of Nordrassil and it was planned since the beginning. Moreover, they were easily killable by orcs even before that.

[eurojust]

You are not right in some of those points.

- She has not abandon it. She is still leader of Sentinels, Shandris is secondary leader. Since Tyrande leads even Sisterhood of Elune, she leaves most of the Sentinel operation to Shandris.

I said that she abadonned her duties, not that she stopped being the leader of the Sentinels.

- The decision to plant Teldrassil and make home there was made by druids, notable Fandral. Tyrande was in fact in opposition to him.

And what did she do to oppose him? Nothing, and most of the night elf people left the mainland to that new tree under her rule. When it comes to freeing Illidan she can disobey Malfurion, remorseless kill dozens of her own sisters and a Keeper of the Grove... but she can't just say "no" to Fandral?

- She actually leads counter attack when Horde attacks Ashenvale in cata.

That's the only time outside of BFA where she helps her people fighting the Horde, and that's because Garrosh launched a full invasion of Kalimdor. Still the Horde gained a larger territory in Ashenvale in cata and Tyrande would have lost everything if not for Varian.

- Her people are responsible for worgen joining the Alliance

She is responsible for the Blood Elves and the Nightbornes joining the Horde

- Her being taught by Varian in MoP is really bad. It should be Tyrande teaching Varian, but I guess writers wanted to show us how wise Varian is.

Yet, that's a fact.

- Tyrande abandons Azshara at the end of MoP, meaning the land was in goblin hands for years, so it was most likely in pretty bad shape. Even before goblins went there, Azshara was mostly abandoned by elves, they only had minor settlements here. Ashenvale is way more important for kaldorei.

That's your own interpretention : During the Goblin questline Night Elves show up to defend Azshara. There's a reason why this was a neutral territory, not to mention wc3. She never cared about the Night Elves getting slaughtered there but she suddenly remembers that it's a nelf territory when making a deal with the Horde.

- in the short story, she wants to depart to Ashenvale and Darkshore immediately. She is convinced by other leaders to stay and help refugees to settle down in Stormwind, which is pretty reasonable. Malfurion went to defend Darkshore, and if Saurfang would not strike him from behind, he would defeated Sylvanas and probably defend Darkshore (defeat of Warchief would probably broke morale of Horde troops badly)

No, it's not reasonable for a military leader to abandon her troops because once again, she failed at military tactics.

- The decision to send night elf army to Silithus was also made in unison with other Alliance leaders, so Tyrande is not only one to blame. Also, it was a trap. All they knew at that point was that Horde is targeting Silithus and the Wound. Leaving it for the Horde to take would not be great idea either.

She's a big girl, and the leader of her people. She's responsible for the decisions she made. She should have put her people's interest in the balance, arguing against that plan, but once again, she just doesn't care about them and had no problem leaving them defendless.

What Tyrande managed to do right over years:

a drop in the bucket compared to the suffering her people went through because of her own mistakes.

[Tuor]

Not really. They were weak since loss of Nordrassil and it was planned since the beginning. Moreover, they were easily killable by orcs even before that.

The lost of Nordrassil only means they lost their imortality, not their strenght, its the same guys that defated the Legion, 1st time alones, 2nd time, with the help of the humans and the orcs.

The real reason is that they normally fight outnumbered. If Tyrande hadn't sent a huge portion of NElf army to Silithus, then the horde wouldn't be able to take Darkshore at all, i read somewhere that it was a trick from the horde so they could force NElfs to split their army even more.

[DemonHunter18]

The lost of Nordrassil only means they lost their imortality, not their strenght, its the same guys that defated the Legion, 1st time alones, 2nd time, with the help of the humans and the orcs.

he means the one Grom killed in Ashenvale.

tbf, they had a lot of help during WotA, Wild Gods to name a few.

[Saltysquidoon]

Not really. They were weak since loss of Nordrassil and it was planned since the beginning. Moreover, they were easily killable by orcs even before that.

Take another swig of that demon blood Grom, then we'll talk.

[eurojust]

Not really. They were weak since loss of Nordrassil and it was planned since the beginning. Moreover, they were easily killable by orcs even before that.

Not really. The Warsongs and Grom (one of the most powerful Orc) attacked a bunch of them unprepared, then Cenarius came with some backup and they had to drink felblood in order of winning.
I can use the same logic when Tyrande killed a bunch of Orcs and Humans at the beginning of the nelf campaign.

[Niroshi]

Doesn't matter who leads the Night Elves so long as the writers want them to be punching bag props. There is literally no point in changing Tyrande out.

[Artale]

The issue is that Blizz ignored Nelves for a very long time. When they got tired of the complaints they just made up a quick and half-assed story so they can go "you had your turn" and continue spending 80% of story resources on Horde.

[Encaitar29]

Tyrande is, as some of here mentioned, a victim of Blizzard storytelling problems. For some unknown reason Blizzards decided to use Night Elves and almost every other race as a plot-tool to further human development on the Alliance side. Tyrande is often shown as incompetent leader for some unknown reason, but that's also been the case since Warcraft III, because Blizzard always choose to use her as a background for someone else to shine, be it druids (Warcraft III campaign), Varian (MoP scenario, books), Golden-boy and Genn (BFA).

She's not the only vitctim of that though. Velen has been potrayed as incompetent aswell, almost killed by his own people (well we don't know whether or not Haatun would do that or not, but still), only to be saved by High Exarch Turalyon - human chosen by nigh-immortal Draenei space army to be their leader. And now his only aspiration is to give "all the support to King Anduin, and to ensure he is prepared to face the threat that looms in the darkness". As if 25k old Velen, ruler of one the mightiest civilizations that ever were (that's the reason why Sargeras chose them for his generals after all) wouldn't be a more suitable condidate to lead any coalition than a 19 yo human boy. Or for that matter, any other leader of the Alliance out there having more diplomatic and tactical experience than Anduin.

Back on topic, there were also some poor choices in how her story played out, for instance the Darkshore storyline - not only did Nathanos almost overpower Tyrande, there was also no real reason for Sira to hate Tyrande and Maiev. And there was a simple way to make it more believeable by using the plot they themselves written in the quest - that the Night Warrior ritual is dangerous to everyone around. Should the ritual kill Sira and other Wardens and Sentinels, there would be a good reason for them to hate Elune and Tyrande. Same with the Burning of Teldrassil, her actions regarding Malfurion's safety were entirely inconsistent with her Val'sharah modus operandi, where she abandoned the quest to save him in order to protect the Temple of Elune. And well, Darnassus also had one...

I believe Tyrande is mistreated because she's not a self-insert or waifu of any writer back at Blizzard HQ and they simply don't know how to handle a strong female character without turning them into Elsa like they did with Jaina "I will defeat Ashvane with the Power of the Song" Proudmoore.

[Tanaria]

The issue is that Blizz ignored Nelves for a very long time. When they got tired of the complaints they just made up a quick and half-assed story so they can go "you had your turn" and continue spending 80% of story resources on Horde.

With the remaining 18% on Human story, 1% on Worgen story and then each other Alliance race get's about 0.1 - 0.2% of the Alliance story focus.

It's why I no longer care for the Alliance story - it's all the same.

[Saltysquidoon]

Back on topic, there were also some poor choices in how her story played out, for instance the Darkshore storyline - not only did Nathanos almost overpower Tyrande, there was also no real reason for Sira to hate Tyrande and Maiev. And there was a simple way to make it more believeable by using the plot they themselves written in the quest - that the Night Warrior ritual is dangerous to everyone around.

Well why that happened is no great mystery with selfinsertuser at the helm.

[Yarathir]

Tyrande, lorewise, is a perfectly fine leader, the problem is more that Blizz is pretty garbage at characterizing her.

And that they need to have Sylvanas accomplish her goals despite how little sense it makes for them to succeed.

- - - Updated - - -

Doesn't matter who leads the Night Elves so long as the writers want them to be punching bag props. There is literally no point in changing Tyrande out.

This. They lose because Blizzard wants them to lose. Not because of any fault of the Night Elves or Tyrande.

[Tanaria]

And that they need to have Sylvanas accomplish her goals despite how little sense it makes for them to succeed.

- - - Updated - - -


This. They lose because Blizzard wants them to lose. Not because of any fault of the Night Elves or Tyrande.

The problem you've got is that most of Tyrande's early WoW lore was in books.

The time when we saw Sylvanas fight the Lich King in-game, Tyrande was fighting Xavius, through a novel.
When Sylvanas launched her assault on Gilneas and we saw what she was doing in-game, it was only afterward did Tyrande go to war with Garrosh, but again - it was through a novel.

What I think the core problem is, is that Tyrande's character shines better in books. I mean hell, it took the WoT novellas for us to see more of what Tyrande was doing and why Varok hesitated in killing Malfurion.

Now, Blizzard are trying to correct this - but I think they are trying to sort out a mess, which they haven't been able to get out of, as of yet.

EDIT: Now, why am I comparing Tyrande and Sylvanas? Well, these two were the core female racial leaders in Classic and have spent equal amounts of time in the "World of Warcraft Azeroth." (Not anything before, like the Kaldorei Empire or anything like that - that's not in WoW.)

[Narwhalosh Whalescream]

Blizzard just can't write for shit, and hasn't been able to for years upon years. There's some nice short stories like strength of steel and that kind of stuff, but as for broad overlapping storylines? Doesn't work as long it's an MMO with 2 factions.

[Mardux]

People is angry with Blizzard, why should we be angry with Tyrande, is she real?


Yep, she is hot.

As if something being real has ever mattered when it comes to alliance players' anger.

E: its also pretty entertaining to see all these people blame poor writing when it comes to an alliance character's stupidly. Yet, when it's a horde character that does some fucked up shit, more often than not, the characters (and players) are at fault.

I have to wonder how many hoops they'll jump through to to blame stuff on the horde now that the horde is essentially just a subdivision of the alliance.