Democrats Have Abandoned Civil Liberties

[ranwort]

The amusing part when it comes to you is that you can never see the problems on your own side of the fence. I changed which side of the fence I was standing on because it stunk so badly over there, as did anyone that can actually look at both sides objectively. Yes, it stinks over here too. Yes, you have a collection of cringeworthy idiots virtue-signalling over their soy lattes. But for all its faults, this is still the better side of history. So take a look at your advice, understand the hysteria you are caught up in. It is harder to do that then to mock, but it is possible.

When you are going to acknowledge that acting as a bodyguard for child rapists was a bad thing?

[Calfredd]

When you are going to acknowledge that acting as a bodyguard for child rapists was a bad thing?

When you acknowledge it first.

[Thekri]

When you acknowledge it first.

Don't bother with him. It is just @TexasRules doing his little stalker thing. He has been doing it for probably close to a year now, it is kind of funny.

[cubby]

Don't bother with him. It is just @TexasRules doing his little stalker thing. He has been doing it for probably close to a year now, it is kind of funny.

I keep forgetting they are the same person.

Anyway, @Omega10 - good point regarding the point that while the press is destroying itself, that is not a liberal issue/problem.

[Edge-]

Rolling Stone editor Matt Taibbi has finally ingested the red pill when it comes to liberal extremists who have totally abandoned fundamental liberal tenets.

I must have missed the fundamental liberal tenets he mentioned, can you let me know what they were?

Every liberal on this forum should read his recent article "The American Press Is Destroying Itself".

I gave it a read and I see him pearl clutching over issues that are largely within the realm of the news organizations and their policies. I'm not sure what this has to do with "me" as a liberal.

This is a perfect time to take a good long look in the mirror...and make a deliberate, honest and intelligent decision that defines yourself for the rest of your life.

Shit...like...now? I mean, I've barely had my morning coffee, can this wait a bit until I'm awake and put together?

What am I making a decision about, again? You said that we need to make a decision, but not what about. A decision on our opinion of this piece?

Rationalize and accept the hysteria...or walk away from the toxic groupthink which corrupts the minds of so many. I urge you to take this seriously and to choose wisely...as life is short, very short.

But...I legitimately had no idea about any of this, which appears to be largely social media bullshit with a dash of, "For-profit news media is an inherently conflicted enterprise and is not suitable for quality journalism in the modern age." which...ain't exactly new.

I mean, we're supposed to react with horror that protesters demanding that the police be defunded shouted down the Minneapolis mayor after he said he wouldn't defund the police? ...ok? I mean, that's a pretty predictable response. And the dishonestly comparing what is a very local issue and response (cities handle their police forces) to national polling on the issue?

And he's pearl clutching over a symbolic, Biblically based act of washing feet? https://apnews.com/ab636068d57de116e1c2685306646518

And that people might be offended that Pelosi and Schumber wore uniquely African scarves, viewing it as cultural appropriation?

Why is he selectively only including part of the response from Minneapolis City Council President Lisa Bender? Specifically the reference on privilege alone? Why not her immediately subsequent comments like -

"In the immediate we have to lean into whatever changes we can make in our existing police department. You know, I think you look to cities like Camden, NJ, that completely restructured their department as we build our system."

So they asked a hard question, like he says media are afraid to do, and got a response. And Tabbi is uncritically echoing the conservative coverage of this question, which is supremely disappointing.

The media in the last four years has devolved into a succession of moral manias. We are told the Most Important Thing Ever is happening for days or weeks at a time, until subjects are abruptly dropped and forgotten, but the tone of warlike emergency remains: from James Comey’s firing, to the deification of Robert Mueller, to the Brett Kavanaugh nomination, to the democracy-imperiling threat to intelligence “whistleblowers,” all those interminable months of Ukrainegate hearings (while Covid-19 advanced), to fury at the death wish of lockdown violators, to the sudden reversal on that same issue, etc.

And here we have him completely missing the point. All of this isn't due to "liberal mania" or any such nonsense.

All of that is due to, as I mentioned earlier, for-profit news being itself a fucking problem. This isn't the fault of Trump by any means, but Trump's campaign showed them that a return to the sensational days of William Randolph Hurst are a goldmine. "Mainstream media" started learning the lessons of conservative media and treating everything as if it's an immediate panic and the BIGGEST THING EVER. Why? Because that gets clicks and eyeballs, and those translate into revenue. This is the necessary outcome of for-profit news organizations. They're going to chase the money, even if their journalists are doing good work, and the business interests will always come out ahead as those pay everyone paychecks.

Just like the extensive coverage of the many unvetted and uninvestigated claims from Tara Reade that were covered by media across the board. Because again, it's not an "ideological" thing, it's a business thing.

MSNBC could put Michael Avenatti on live TV to air a gang rape allegation without vetting, because who cared about Brett Kavanaugh – except press airing of that wild story ended up being a crucial factor in convincing key swing voter Maine Senator Susan Collins the anti-Kavanaugh campaign was a political hit job (the allegation illustrated, “why the presumption of innocence is so important,” she said). Reporters who were anxious to prevent Kavanaugh’s appointment, in other words, ended up helping it happen through overzealousness.

Again, ascribing ideological motivations to what is, and has been, purely profit driven motivations. Having a chucklefuck like Avenatti on to air some bullshit gets views, just like having Ja Rule or Ron Pearlman on to discuss current events similarly gets views. Neither serves any ideological bent, neither is good journalism, but both are definitely good moneymakers.

We were supposed to be willing to go to jail for sources we might not even like

https://www.nytimes.com/2015/01/13/u...wyers-say.html

They still can and do, and this guy spent nearly a decade fighting to protect his source.

and fly off to war zones or disaster areas without question when editors asked

Do...they not? I still see reporters reporting from disaster areas, I still see reporters showing up to cover the protests for weeks despite their colleagues repeatedly being assaulted and arrested by police on-air. It's been a while since I've looked at any reporting from warzones, but we still see media going out to those as well. Absent any context from him, I'm not sure what he's complaining about here.

but not one of them will talk honestly about the fear running through their own newsrooms.

Something he casually drops in at the end despite failing to quantify this fear anywhere in his article outside of a handful of social media dustups. The closest he gets is a vague tweet from Fang, who despite spending paragraphs pearl clutching about received no "punishment" from his employer or colleagues for any of his social media posts.

There are worthwhile discussions about the current media landscape to be had for sure, and I've been banging on the "For-profit media is fundamentally broken and incapable of effectively doing the job of journalism" drum for a while now.

But this article? This ain't it.

[Machismo]

The bolded is not true....there are many problems on the right as well imo. I was on the better side of history as a liberal in the 60s and 70s and I'm on the better side now imo.

If you're currently a liberal and believe that you're on the better side of history in these times of pervasive hatred, bigotry and violence that's prevalent among a huge left-wing element of our current society...I would highly disagree.

Man, the mental disconnect on that comment is off the charts. Who knew that all these racist hate groups are left-wing...

[Calfredd]

Don't bother with him. It is just @TexasRules doing his little stalker thing. He has been doing it for probably close to a year now, it is kind of funny.

Oh I didn't know it was TexasRules but I was also bored.

[Endus]

All of that is due to, as I mentioned earlier, for-profit news being itself a fucking problem. This isn't the fault of Trump by any means, but Trump's campaign showed them that a return to the sensational days of William Randolph Hurst are a goldmine. "Mainstream media" started learning the lessons of conservative media and treating everything as if it's an immediate panic and the BIGGEST THING EVER. Why? Because that gets clicks and eyeballs, and those translate into revenue. This is the necessary outcome of for-profit news organizations. They're going to chase the money, even if their journalists are doing good work, and the business interests will always come out ahead as those pay everyone paychecks.

And, in a pretty supreme bit of further irony, there are a lot of us on the left wings of things who don't really support capitalist profiteering, to begin with, and would prefer a system with a social conscience, rooted in socialist theory.

So when right-wingers wring their hands and say "but look at the horrors of capitalism; they are at odds with human decency and dignity!" they're not actually making a point we weren't already making decades ago. Yes, capitalism is a giant ball of suck. Where did you think an unflinching support of unrestricted capitalism was a left-wing concept? This is a big reason that we point out that the USA doesn't really have a "left wing", ideologically. They have the far-right Republicans, and the centrist corporatist Democrats. There's a few standouts among Democrats who don't fit that bill, but the establishment members largely do.

Do...they not? I still see reporters reporting from disaster areas, I still see reporters showing up to cover the protests for weeks despite their colleagues repeatedly being assaulted and arrested by police on-air. It's been a while since I've looked at any reporting from warzones, but we still see media going out to those as well. Absent any context from him, I'm not sure what he's complaining about here.

Seems to be Taibbi misunderstanding what being a prime time anchor means. It's not being an investigative reporter. It's not being an on-location reporter. These are all distinctly separate roles. Complaining that one is not doing the job(s) of the other(s) is so blatantly wrong it seems like it has to be deliberate dishonesty.

If anything, they're not feeding news anchors' egos as much by sending them to do work they're really not trained for.

[jonnysensible]

And, in a pretty supreme bit of further irony, there are a lot of us on the left wings of things who don't really support capitalist profiteering, to begin with, and would prefer a system with a social conscience, rooted in socialist theory.

So when right-wingers wring their hands and say "but look at the horrors of capitalism; they are at odds with human decency and dignity!" they're not actually making a point we weren't already making decades ago. Yes, capitalism is a giant ball of suck. Where did you think an unflinching support of unrestricted capitalism was a left-wing concept? This is a big reason that we point out that the USA doesn't really have a "left wing", ideologically. They have the far-right Republicans, and the centrist corporatist Democrats. There's a few standouts among Democrats who don't fit that bill, but the establishment members largely do.



Seems to be Taibbi misunderstanding what being a prime time anchor means. It's not being an investigative reporter. It's not being an on-location reporter. These are all distinctly separate roles. Complaining that one is not doing the job(s) of the other(s) is so blatantly wrong it seems like it has to be deliberate dishonesty.

If anything, they're not feeding news anchors' egos as much by sending them to do work they're really not trained for.

taibbi does his wannabe hunter s thompson impression but ends up looking like tim pools dad.

hes in that nexus of war nerd (mark ames, john dolan), max blumental, arron mate, greenwald and has recently moved to the joe rogan audience.

The most important figure i always feel when discussing these guys is limonov, they always remind me of him.

[tortwarp]

Don't bother with him. It is just @TexasRules doing his little stalker thing. He has been doing it for probably close to a year now, it is kind of funny.

I'm not even an American you dribbling little grunt.

[Machismo]

I'm not even an American you dribbling little grunt.

Plenty of people have accounts that they pretend to be Americans, when they are clearly from somewhere else.

[tortwarp]

Just like the extensive coverage of the many unvetted and uninvestigated claims from Tara Reade that were covered by media across the board.

You are such a fucking disgusting human being, Persistently trying to abuse your moderator status to smear a rape victim.

[DocSavageFan]

I must have missed the fundamental liberal tenets he mentioned, can you let me know what they were?

The fact that you need to be reminded pretty much says it all about you and where you're coming from.

From the article:

The leaders of this new movement are replacing traditional liberal beliefs about tolerance, free inquiry, and even racial harmony with ideas so toxic and unattractive that they eschew debate, moving straight to shaming, threats, and intimidation.

[Felya]

The bolded is not true....there are many problems on the right as well imo. I was on the better side of history as a liberal in the 60s and 70s and I'm on the better side now imo.

How the baby boomers — not millennials — screwed America
https://www.vox.com/2017/12/20/16772...-congress-debt

Starting with Reagan, we saw this national ethos which was basically the inverse of JFK’s “Ask not what your country can do for you, but what you can do for your country.” This gets flipped on its head in a massive push for privatized gain and socialized risk for big banks and financial institutions. This has really been the dominant boomer economic theory, and it’s poisoned what’s left of our public institutions.

—

If you're currently a liberal and believe that you're on the better side of history in these times of pervasive hatred, bigotry and violence that's prevalent among a huge left-wing element of our current society...I would highly disagree.

Yes, I think history will remember Trump having a historically low approval rating, that was interpreted by his supporters as pervasive hatred, bigotry and violence. Not the nazis marching in the street, not the 100s murdered by white nationalists. The bigotry and violence is coming from people pointing at Trump as the cause of division.

[Elegiac]

Rolling Stone editor Matt Taibbi has finally ingested the red pill when it comes to liberal extremists who have totally abandoned fundamental liberal tenets. Every liberal on this forum should read his recent article "The American Press Is Destroying Itself".

This is a perfect time to take a good long look in the mirror...and make a deliberate, honest and intelligent decision that defines yourself for the rest of your life.

Rationalize and accept the hysteria...or walk away from the toxic groupthink which corrupts the minds of so many. I urge you to take this seriously and to choose wisely...as life is short, very short.

https://taibbi.substack.com/p/the-ne...troying-itself

Y’all do realise that the term “red pill” was invented by trans women right?

[Felya]

The fact that you need to be reminded pretty much says it all about you and where you're coming from.

From the article:

Devos-Funded Group Organizes Protest Against Michigan Governor’s Stay-at-Home Order
https://www.prwatch.org/files/styles...?itok=hmSjk03k

A political group heavily funded by the family of Education Secretary Betsy DeVos organized a raucous rally against Michigan Governor Gretchen Whitmer's stay-at-home order on Wednesday. Roughly 3,000 conservatives, including members of the Proud Boys hate group and Confederate flag-waving right-wingers, descended on the state Capitol. Most participants did not wear protective masks or observe social distancing recommendations.

The protest was organized by the DeVos-funded nonprofit Michigan Freedom Fund (MFF) and a far-right organization called the Michigan Conservative Coalition.

[Felya]

Y’all do realise that the term “red pill” was invented by trans women right?

... and there was one Neo, not a whole boogaloo... If taking the red pill made you realize that Trump is the president, I’m not sure what it’s purpose. Last I checked, taking the red pill, didn’t make Neo support billionaire running the country.

[Machismo]

You are such a fucking disgusting human being, Persistently trying to abuse your moderator status to smear a rape victim.

Evidence, please.

[Edge-]

The fact that you need to be reminded pretty much says it all about you and where you're coming from.

From the article:

Sorry, I guess his entire article pretty much pearl clutching over cringy leftist twitter being cringy leftist twitter, and viewing that as some kind of mirror to reality and indictment of liberalism overall (Twitter ain't reality) must have confused me a bit.

Because none of those things are "gone" in the slightest, and most of what he's complaining about has nothing to do with "liberalism" and everything to do with Twitter being a fucking bubble of stupidity and insanity that people treat way too seriously. Despite it being a minority of America, and "political Twitter" being a hyperminority of even that.

I don't live on Twitter. Most of us don't. Tabbi, I guess, does. That may be why we're so confused about his pearl clutching, despite there being some absolutely worthwhile topics of discussion that he buries under a mountain of shit.

[Draco-Onis]

The fact that you need to be reminded pretty much says it all about you and where you're coming from.

From the article:

You know even if the article wasn't hot twitter garbage, do you think you have any leg to stand on in this thread? here is a thread of right wingers protectors of the US celebrating a traitor who sold out his country.