The Last of Us Part II

[SirCowdog]

SLASH SIGH

Citation needed*.



If you're worried about that, look to content creators/influencers where the pay-for-play is still pretty grey, despite big improvements over the years in the transparency on that front.



That ND has been producing critically acclaimed hit after critically acclaimed hit regularly scoring in the 9/10 and 10/10 range for the past two console generations doesn't mean that Sony "buys" critics, it means that ND is a top tier studio that is given huge budgets and ample time to produce amazing quality games, and they do this by having talented staff who are crunched to the ground to deliver.



Which is why only looking at the score is bad, and nobody should do that. The score is the general measure, the content of the review, the words, provide context for that score. That some reviewers may think that the violence is too graphic, or may be turned off by it, doesn't necessarily have to negatively impact the score



If you're just looking for people who share similar opinions, that's totally fine and that's what many people do. But honestly, I think you (the royal you) are better served by reading a diversity of opinions (even if they all say "10/10! GREAT GAME!" why did they say that?) to get a better holistic view of the product.



I wouldn't. They are, almost as always, a good measure for what critics think of the game, and a guidepost to help inform readers/viewers on what to expect.

That people are flipping out because they have unrelated social issues with the game and that gamers have an irrational hostility towards the people that make and cover their hobby/fandom in a way that I rarely seem to see in other fandoms/hobbies is a really, really, really weird quirk to me.

Hell, the "TLOU2" hate train was predicting doom and gloom for reviews and claiming they'd be garbage. This pretty much takes the wind outta that agenda.

Edge...that's like asking for proof that things get wet when it rains.


The difference between 9/10 and 10/10 flat score is massive. Primarily because of the idiocy of scores in the first place. A 9/10 implies heavily that it's a good game, but with some context. The same way a 6/10 is abject failure to be avoided. A straight 10/10 implies perfection, which is an ideal to strive for, not a reality

And you know as well as I do that most people....and i mean that literally....MOST people do not read reviews. They only look at the score

It's simply the quid pro quo nature of the review industry. If those review sites want continued access to early copies of games, free copies of games, access to events and other special treatment from game producers, they have to grapple with the conflict of interests that creates.

I'm not saying that everyone does this. But enough do that it's an expected response that throws any "perfect" review into question. And it's as much the fault of the Producers as it is the reviewers who avail themselves of that special treatment. Blackisting and playing favorites, giving early copies of games to sites that give favorable reviews.

Even a reviewer with honest intentions would feel that pressure. And staying objective in that environment isnthe exception, not the rule. Combine that with obvious cherry-picked review scores.....

...I guess mostly what I'm saying is very similar to what you're saying:

Actually read the reviews. Don't use scores as a measure of anything. Be aware of the atmosphere of bias. Carefully consider and form your own opinion based in multiple sources, and don't let other people make the decision for you.


And to the other point: Using these reviews as evidence to support an argument of whether the game is good or not is....questionable, at best. It's to subjective.

[Edge-]

Edge...that's like asking for proof that things get wet when it rains.

Then it should be easy, lay it on me.

The difference between 9/10 and 10/10 flat score is massive. Primarily because of the idiocy of scores in the first place. A 9/10 implies heavily that it's a good game, but with some context. The same way a 6/10 is abject failure to be avoided. A straight 10/10 implies perfection, which is an ideal to strive for, not a reality

A 10/10 never indicated "perfection", because nothing is "perfect". "Perfect" scores indicate that whatever the product is, it is best-in-class and of the highest quality. Not that it is without any fault or flaw, but that the faults and flaws don't detract from the overall quality enough to drop a score.

And you know as well as I do that most people....and i mean that literally....MOST people do not read reviews. They only look at the score

Media illiteracy is a personal problem, and if readers are failing to read the reviews and only look at scores there's nothing that outlets can do about that. Your problem is with people who don't read reviews, not with reviewers.

It's simply the quid pro quo nature of the review industry. If those review sites want continued access to early copies of games, free copies of games, access to events and other special treatment from game producers, they have to grapple with the conflict of interests that creates.

Free copies don't mean shit, games aren't expensive. As to the rest, that's largely unsupported nonsense. I've had reviewers from big sites savage bad games I've worked on. I'm not gonna deny them early access to a review because of that, and nor would any of the companies I work for. Blacklisting or removal from early access lists is rare, and usually only comes as a result of violating agreed upon terms (Nintendo blacklisting that EU site for posting NDA'd material).

I'm not saying that everyone does this. But enough do that it's an expected response that throws any "perfect" review into question. And it's as much the fault of the Producers as it is the reviewers who avail themselves of that special treatment. Blackisting and playing favorites, giving early copies of games to sites that give favorable reviews.

https://www.metacritic.com/game/play...drakes-fortune - 88
https://www.metacritic.com/game/play...-among-thieves - 96
https://www.metacritic.com/game/play...akes-deception - 92
https://www.metacritic.com/game/play...4-a-thiefs-end - 93
https://www.metacritic.com/game/play...the-last-of-us - 95
https://www.metacritic.com/game/play...-of-us-part-ii - 95

With a few high 80's being the "outlier", every game in their Uncharted and TLOU franchises has reviewed extremely well with multiple 10/10 scores. TLOU2 is no exception. I didn't even include TLOU remaster or the Uncharted collection (which IIRC ND didn't handle), which both reviewed very well as well. The only exception?

https://www.metacritic.com/game/play...ter-collection - 81

And an 81 isn't even bad. This is the hallmark of a studio that puts out bangers because of how talented they are and the work environment they foster (crunch) as well as the budget and time they are given.

Even a reviewer with honest intentions would feel that pressure. And staying objective in that environment isnthe exception, not the rule. Combine that with obvious cherry-picked review scores.....

Unsupported hypothesizing. Everything about the history of Naughty Dog's work speaks to the fact that they simply make insanely high quality games.

...I guess mostly what I'm saying is very similar to what you're saying:

Actually read the reviews. Don't use scores as a measure of anything. Be aware of the atmosphere of bias. Carefully consider and form your own opinion based in multiple sources, and don't let other people make the decision for you.

Scores are good for a general benchmark of, "Is this good or not", but that's about it. It's a single data point. Agreed that people should actually read reviews, but looking at a score to see if it's even worth reading them isn't a bad thing.

And to the other point: Using these reviews as evidence to support an argument of whether the game is good or not is....questionable, at best. It's to subjective.

Yes and no.

No: It speaks to the quality of the game. This is unarguably an extremely high quality game.

Yes: It won't speak to your personal tastes and whether you enjoy the game or not.

Because reviews have never, and will never, speak to the latter, because as you say it's subjective.

[RobertoCarlos]

No it's fuckin not. Story is absolute trash.

Its really not though. Story so far has been great. It's a slow build up to epic moments like the first. And the letters and world building is all there at top quality.

The crafting menu could look a bit more interesting is my only complaint so far

[Tech614]

Its really not though. Story so far has been great. It's a slow build up to epic moments like the first. And the letters and world building is all there at top quality.

The crafting menu could look a bit more interesting is my only complaint so far

Has a lesbian and a chick with muscles though. 3/10 story is shit. /s

[RobertoCarlos]

Has a lesbian and a chick with muscles though. 3/10 story is shit. /s

The more you uncover the more you realise its actually a really interesting way to approach a sequel by being faithful to the established world but also expanding it and being able to be a standalone game as well. Obviously you get more by playing the first game but this feels like a very full story for a follow up so to speak. It's classic naughty dog narrative/gameplay magic

[SirCowdog]

I'm not going to argue the rest. Review bias from "professionals" is a rampant problem in tje games industry. It's everywhere,a and I'm at work on my phone, so tracking down specific cases is more trouble than it's worth. And it doesn't sound like you're willing to entertain the idea. Maybe I'm wrong about that, so I'll concede the point to avoid strife. Just keep your eyes open for it and you'll see it.

Yes and no.

No: It speaks to the quality of the game. This is unarguably an extremely high quality game.
.

Does it? Many reviews have described the controls and overall gameplay loop as being uninspired and basic. It's subjective. Relative. Compare The Last of Us shooting, gunplay, and parkour to The Division, for example. Or maybe a better comparison would be to something like the newer Tomb Raider games.

I don't personally give games credit for being competent. That should be the baseline.

But regardless, should we assume by the 10/10 score that the gameplay is flawless? The story? The graphics? The writing?

Anyway, we're basically arguing nuance at this point. I agree that a high score will mean it's generally a good game. But the numerical scoring system is just too ambiguous, and too many people misunderstand or misuse it.

[Kallisto]

I'm not going to argue the rest. Review bias from "professionals" is a rampant problem in tje games industry. It's everywhere,a and I'm at work on my phone, so tracking down specific cases is more trouble than it's worth. And it doesn't sound like you're willing to entertain the idea. Maybe I'm wrong about that, so I'll concede the point to avoid strife. Just keep your eyes open for it and you'll see it.

You are making an accusation. It is up to you to find undeniable proof of it happening outside of "It's giving scores my rage won't accept.".

As in you have to give evidence, that can't be refuted, has a 0% chance of being fake on here now to prove that what you're saying is nothing more than a conspiracy theory.

[SirCowdog]

You are making an accusation. It is up to you to find undeniable proof of it happening outside of "It's giving scores my rage won't accept.".

As in you have to give evidence, that can't be refuted, has a 0% chance of being fake on here now to prove that what you're saying is nothing more than a conspiracy theory.

I literally said I conceded the point. And I didn't say I couldn't provide evidence, I simply expressed that it wasn't worth arguing over from my phone.

Whatever. As I also said, I did that because I don't want an intense argument over something that's not really all that important. I've done enough knock-down drag out arguing over the years, and I respect Edge- enough to not turn it into a fiasco.

Just as a point of clarification. I am 100% neutral on the game itself. My point was more a statement on the "review industry" in general, and not at all meant to imply anything specific about TLoU2.

I understand this game has polarized people, and emotions surrounding it are high. So I apologize if my position wasn't clear until now.

[Vakir]

I still say whether there's paid reviews or not is missing the forest for the trees and the bigger issue is that the pressure for a number for marketing purposes or analytics devalues nuanced discussion. Notice the flood of 5/5s and 10s on game ads but not nearly as many pull quotes as when films tout their good press.

Polygon and...god, I can't believe I'm giving them credit, but Kotaku...both put in reviews that had no direct number scores and both were significantly more critical of a lot of the complaints that exist by people who aren't raging assholes. Namely the performative inclusivity feeling like an excuse to just brutalize more varied types of people, the thematic nihilism, the manipulative attempts at making the player feel "bad" in situations where they lack any agency, etc.

I'm not saying these reviews are any more valid than ones that liked it more, just that's interesting that when you don't have a scoring system, you usually are more predisposed to going in depth on your thoughts rather than placing a value on it that is strongly encouraged by marketing, whether they directly paid/influenced you or not.

Also, a professional saying that "in a medium where every game is John Wick, TLOU2 is Schindler's List" makes my fucking skin crawl.

[Unclekreepy]

Related: That doesn't seem to be in the first 5 minutes at all, but hours into the game. There are plenty of videos of the game opening and Abby doesn't even appear to be in it.

I meant 5 mins into the video... not the game

[Edge-]

I meant 5 mins into the video... not the game

ah, my bad. read it wrong I guess.

[Calfredd]

The first game was nice but if all of those reviews are to be believed, this is a hard pass for me as I'm not really interested in a game that constantly tells me how awful I am as a person or the gratuitous amounts of unneeded violence that floods the game. On a side-note, the idea that Druckmann might have a self-insert is hilarious. I couldn't find a non-meme image so ignore the top half of this image: https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/...63/387/d7d.png

[Video Games]

at least im getting quality memes

[hambone2626]

Well, I imagine that it's a rough life that requires a lot of physical activity based on the setting and what we've seen, so it's not surprising that some folks would build up a lot of muscle. Also, some people are just naturally bigger/more muscular due to genetics. I haven't quite seen anyone emaciated or starving, though I haven't looked through all the videos, so it doesn't seem like the main characters are starving.



Play the game and find out, if it matters either way. Because right now it's purely a "fan" theory (quotes because those who seem to be pushing it the hardest are the ones that have an issue with it) and unless her gender ends up playing a role in the story I don't see the fuss. If she is, cool. If she's not, cool.

you can not build mass without protein did you no read what he wrote, and protein is hard to come by in this setting.

- - - Updated - - -

You are making an accusation. It is up to you to find undeniable proof of it happening outside of "It's giving scores my rage won't accept.".

As in you have to give evidence, that can't be refuted, has a 0% chance of being fake on here now to prove that what you're saying is nothing more than a conspiracy theory.

not all truth can be brought to light, just because you call it a conspiracy does not mean its not true, some truths will never be exposed and to believe everything you are told is what sheep do.

[Cosmic Janitor]

it's so realistic

I love that they have a Trans scene to give awareness about 5 mins into the video.

https://youtu.be/oKJRgHJ8MUg

*snip*

Lol, that one actually made me chuckle. I was like: "What could they do for a trans sex scene, I doubt something like transitioning is a thing in that setting; painal?"
Well looks like I guessed right. It's so cliche (no matter what abby ends up being) - so painfully "obvious" - that it's funny again. How far we have come.. not very far apparently.

Edit: Before someone takes this the wrong way again: I'm taking the piss here, because the only way to show an intimite scene between 2 people that aren't straight or 2 obvious women is for one person to bend the other over and raw dog the shit out of them with zero preparation; prison shower style sans the water. That is pretty much still the same way people thought about it 30 years ago. It's kinda lame no matter how you look at it. If it's a homosexual scene (doubt it)? Cliche. If it's a trans scene? Cliche. If it's a scene between two straight agressive fighter types? Cliche. No matter how I look at it, it's cliche.

[Akka]

Endings do not make or break a game. A great game with a crap ending is still 99% great 1% bad.

Factually wrong.

[Skorpionss]

so Playstation Romania released this promo: https://youtu.be/OtKRkBzv9sM, do other countries have something similar?

[Babadoo]

Its really not though. Story so far has been great. It's a slow build up to epic moments like the first. And the letters and world building is all there at top quality.

The crafting menu could look a bit more interesting is my only complaint so far

This story is a leftie cuck dream and shits on everything first game was. So yeah it's shit. Look at people's reviews on metacritic, you are in a shit minority.

[Crillam]

This story is a leftie cuck dream and shits on everything first game was. So yeah it's shit. Look at people's reviews on metacritic, you are in a shit minority.

Naw, tiny PP man so cute.
So because Ellie is now the lead and have a lesbian relationship it is now "leftie cuck dream"?
I would look at those reviews if there was a way to actually verify them. Cuz right now anyone can go there and leave a review without even playing the game.
Why have a site were you can send in reviews and not have them verified?

[Babadoo]

Naw, tiny PP man so cute.
So because Ellie is now the lead and have a lesbian relationship it is now "leftie cuck dream"?
I would look at those reviews if there was a way to actually verify them. Cuz right now anyone can go there and leave a review without even playing the game.
Why have a site were you can send in reviews and not have them verified?

Freedom of opinion mother fucker thats why.