Reconciling The Horde

[Skytotem]

Blizz never really showed the Horde mending fences after Garrosh's bout of Orcish supremacy... nor the Forsaken patching things up with others after Wrathgate... or the recent mess with Sylvanas and BFA.


How would you all have the Horde patch things up after all this mess when we return after Shadowlands?


My thoughts...

1. Forsaken help cure Red Pox or Blood Plague among the Orcs and Trolls. Or some new disease among the various tauren societies. Playing up their medical angle.

2. Trolls, especially Revantusk, try to help the Forsaken or belfs hold onto territory in northern EK against resurgent stromgarde.

3. Orcs help Zandalari resettle Nazmir or other old troll territories, maybe help Darkspear set up more towns throughout Kalimdor? Especially around the Barrens Oasis's.

[Reinhart11]

Throwing these Alliance loving pseudo leaders who rather kill and betray their own people constantly every time when push comes to shove off the cliffs of Thunder Bluff and put some decent characters in their place who have good, proper goals for their own race and are not Anduin boot lickers would be a good start to bring the members of the Horde somewhat more together.

[Jshadowhunter]

This is Blizzard you're talking about.
Where consequences or one's actions are piled on a single person instead of a collective. Just look at BFA.
ALL of the Horde decided to get stuck in with the war Sylvannas started. But just because a beautiful cinematic resolves the faction war, that's where all the threads end.
Where's Alliance punishing the Horde for being complacent in Sylvannas' action in the 1st place? Why is Tyrannde only showing hatred toward the Horde leader when it was Horde members that burned the tree down and the leader only gave it a go? Alliance invaded the capital of the Zandalrai Empire, destroyed their fleet, and murdered their king in his throne room and Queen Talanji and the rest of Zandalari just forgave the Alliance?
Don't get me started on the "player choice". Where you sied with Sylvannas to the very end and then the game goes PSYCKE!

[Wylyth1992]

This is Blizzard you're talking about.
Where consequences or one's actions are piled on a single person instead of a collective. Just look at BFA.
ALL of the Horde decided to get stuck in with the war Sylvannas started. But just because a beautiful cinematic resolves the faction war, that's where all the threads end.
Where's Alliance punishing the Horde for being complacent in Sylvannas' action in the 1st place? Why is Tyrannde only showing hatred toward the Horde leader when it was Horde members that burned the tree down and the leader only gave it a go? Alliance invaded the capital of the Zandalrai Empire, destroyed their fleet, and murdered their king in his throne room and Queen Talanji and the rest of Zandalari just forgave the Alliance?
Don't get me started on the "player choice". Where you sied with Sylvannas to the very end and then the game goes PSYCKE!

From the way she described the Horde as "a rabid animal", it really sounded like she hates the Horde as a whole.

[Zendhal The Black]

Where's Alliance punishing the Horde for being complacent in Sylvannas' action in the 1st place?

̶D̶r̶a̶e̶n̶o̶r̶ Horde is Free!

That's how Blizzard treats Alliance...

[Jshadowhunter]

̶D̶r̶a̶e̶n̶o̶r̶ Horde is Free!

That's how Blizzard treats Alliance...

I rest my case.

[Skytotem]

This is Blizzard you're talking about.

Aren't we smarter than Blizzard though?

[Powerogue]

Throwing these Alliance loving pseudo leaders who rather kill and betray their own people constantly every time when push comes to shove off the cliffs of Thunder Bluff and put some decent characters in their place who have good, proper goals for their own race and are not Anduin boot lickers would be a good start to bring the members of the Horde somewhat more together.

Yeah, screw those assholes who want to preserve the faction; kill them all and embrace being as evil as the Burning Legion!
[/S]

Didn't we already have a thread on this? I guess it was more focused on reparations with the Alliance for all the evils done by the Horde, but the factions helping their own races is a different angle I suppose.

The thing is on the Horde side the forsaken were the ones most screwed over by, but also most complicit in, Sylvanas's villainy. I don't know whether to kick them while they're down or help them up. I guess the Horde coming together to help rebuild Brill would be a nice gesture. That way they have a place to live again, and have a nice view of the blighted Lordaeron as a constant reminder of their screwup. Best of both worlds!

[Sangris]

Knowing Blizzard, it will probably never be addressed again. See you at MoP 3.0!

[Saltysquidoon]

The reconciliation is sylvanas getting the blame for everything and the forsaken being flanderised into sad humans (no bone zone) who "tirelessly strive to protect the living" under calia. Because wanting to play as a "badass monster" is toxic and we don't want that for our son.

But selfinsertuser said it was just a place holder
Remember morally grey? Not Garrosh 2.0? Blizzard always lie when they get found out early it just never matters because no one cares about the lore.

[Tharivor]

Honestly I don't think Blizzard has much interest; its pretty clear that they consider the matter resolved with the amnesty given for former loyalists. And the fact that Calia is clearly the focus for the future indicates that the Forsaken's"redemption" is going to focus more on being reconciled with the Alliance rather than being in any way attached to the Horde.

In an alternate universe where Blizz did actually care though, I think the most feasible path would be to have the Forsaken military leadership step into the power vacuum and bring the Forsaken closer to the Orcs based on their time working together on the battle-field. The Orcs generally seem to show respect to those they deem effective in war and the Forsaken have proven themselves on that front. They both now also share the experience of losing a racial leader to madness so there is something to build upon there.

With competant writers I would have suggested the Forsaken and Blood Elves push together into the Plaguelands along the lines of what we see in Tranquillien, but Blizzard has repeatedly and deliberately sunk the original Blood Elf-Forsaken alliance to the point that I imagine the Blood Elves actually being among the most prejudiced against the Forsaken as abominations against the Light.

[Soon-TM]

First we had war crimes, with a kangaroo court which was supposed to be the Warcraft version of the Nürnberg trials. Then we had a genocide, and now "war reparations"... WTF is all this 20th century crap doing in Warcraft, at least give me armoured tanks, Katiushkas and bombers, so I can pretend I'm playing !@#$ing Call of Duty. And someone better organise a revolution against all those theocrats and hereditary monarchs over there, democracy is the way to go

[Reinhart11]

@ Powerrogue

As if these leaders have saved the Horde. In its current form, the Horde isn't even the Horde anymore but some screwed up lap dog of Anduin and Jaina. What an awesome accomplishment of these so called leaders. Give me a break.

[Super Dickmann]

Honestly I don't think Blizzard has much interest; its pretty clear that they consider the matter resolved with the amnesty given for former loyalists. And the fact that Calia is clearly the focus for the future indicates that the Forsaken's"redemption" is going to focus more on being reconciled with the Alliance rather than being in any way attached to the Horde.

In an alternate universe where Blizz did actually care though, I think the most feasible path would be to have the Forsaken military leadership step into the power vacuum and bring the Forsaken closer to the Orcs based on their time working together on the battle-field. The Orcs generally seem to show respect to those they deem effective in war and the Forsaken have proven themselves on that front. They both now also share the experience of losing a racial leader to madness so there is something to build upon there.

With competant writers I would have suggested the Forsaken and Blood Elves push together into the Plaguelands along the lines of what we see in Tranquillien, but Blizzard has repeatedly and deliberately sunk the original Blood Elf-Forsaken alliance to the point that I imagine the Blood Elves actually being among the most prejudiced against the Forsaken as abominations against the Light.

The Forsaken being run by a military junta would actually have been an interesting angle if we weren't burdened by the BTS retcons. Anselm, Wroth, Darthalia having more authority than someone like Lydon or Faranell because the Apothecaries aren't the commander type and the rest of the Horde finds it easier to relate to soldiers following orders than to the various plague doctors, even if said doctors are now focusing on cure diseases for their allies, finding ways to spike food growth and the like, which is one thing I agree with OP on would be a fine angle for the R.A.S.

Lacking a central leader would also be a more natural evolution from Sylvanas than degrading to wastes of space awaiting to latch onto a cult figure by refusing to ever have such a structure again and instead amplifying the Cult of Forgotten Shadows style striving.

@Soon-TM

Alas, we'll never have a story where a neoconservative gnome decides to use the superior technology of his species to begin enacting regime change on the other races for still following archaic forms of government instead of the model of the only democracy in the setting.

[Raisei]

@ Powerrogue

As if these leaders have saved the Horde. In its current form, the Horde isn't even the Horde anymore but some screwed up lap dog of Anduin and Jaina. What an awesome accomplishment of these so called leaders. Give me a break.

If I had 100 Gold for every time I had to read this nonsense I could afford an army of Longbois.

Yes, you might have to pretent to not be savages that want to slaughter civilians for fun in the forseeable future, but no worries some psychopath will soon "For the Horde" again and you will unquestionably follow him or her.
Be happy, you commited genocide, started another unjust war, got to murder and pillage till your hearts content and now you are not even blamed for it. It's a great time to be Horde.

[mickybrighteyes]

Yeah, screw those assholes who want to preserve the faction; kill them all and embrace being as evil as the Burning Legion!
[/S]

The sad part is that they shoehorned this argument into the game with the one character in the horde who has NEVER stood for horde ideals and has pandered to the alliance even more than Green Jesus himself. With the added praise as 'best part of the horde' slapped in somewhere and that came across almost as bad as that whole "forsaken are guardians of life" bullshit.

[Powerogue]

@ Powerrogue

As if these leaders have saved the Horde. In its current form, the Horde isn't even the Horde anymore but some screwed up lap dog of Anduin and Jaina. What an awesome accomplishment of these so called leaders. Give me a break.

Yes, you might have to pretent to not be savages that want to slaughter civilians for fun in the forseeable future, but no worries some psychopath will soon "For the Horde" again and you will unquestionably follow him or her.
Be happy, you commited genocide, started another unjust war, got to murder and pillage till your hearts content and now you are not even blamed for it. It's a great time to be Horde.

The ""real"" leaders that seemed to be cherished so much:

[Grazrug]

The current horde is nothing but a pathetic little bunch of alliance and Anduin boot lickets. Better delete that faction as a whole before blizzard can humiliate them further.

- - - Updated - - -

The ""real"" leaders that seemed to be cherished so much:

They are much better then those awful alliance scyopants like Baine or Thrall.

- - - Updated - - -

The sad part is that they shoehorned this argument into the game with the one character in the horde who has NEVER stood for horde ideals and has pandered to the alliance even more than Green Jesus himself. With the added praise as 'best part of the horde' slapped in somewhere and that came across almost as bad as that whole "forsaken are guardians of life" bullshit.

Baine should die. He's the most awful character.

- - - Updated - - -

@ Powerrogue

As if these leaders have saved the Horde. In its current form, the Horde isn't even the Horde anymore but some screwed up lap dog of Anduin and Jaina. What an awesome accomplishment of these so called leaders. Give me a break.

Baine and Thrall betrayed the horde for humans.

[Darth-Piekus]

And that is why I wonder if some people are playing the correct game cause I have a feeling they have mistaken Warcraft for something else.

[Jastall]

And that is why I wonder if some people are playing the correct game cause I have a feeling they have mistaken Warcraft for something else.

I does feel like a lot of people think this is Warhammer: Grimdarker Edition or some shit, where being a genocidal psychopath is the norm and having feelings at all that aren't rage and hatred is for pussies. When in reality the fairly clear-cut good guys have been consistently both winning and in the right since Warcraft 2 and the tyrants consorting with dark forces for muh powers have regularly been killed for mission objectives and/or purples.

Look, I'm not a fan of Baine and Anduin either, they swing the pendulum too far to the opposite end of the spectrum, and BFA's resolution was practically tailor made to satisfy no one. But in the end this is a PG-13 heroic fantasy game about looting a new axe from a dead dragon, and where the lore bows down to the whims of gameplay and very much not the opposite from the second the franchise started. I've no idea how someone can follow this game for 15-20 years and still expect complex morality or deep discussion of socio-political constructs when Blizzard has made crystal clear that neither of these things interest them one iota. Play an Obsidian game or some shit if that's your jam, I know I do.