I Spy...

[Thekri]

bUt DeMoCrAtS hAvE oUr BeSt InTeReSt AnD rEpUbLiCaNs ArE fAsCiStS!

Look, I know holding your own side accountable is a foreign concept, but it is a real thing. Try it sometime. If Trump was doing better in this area then Obama was, I would absolutely give him credit for that. But he isn't, so damn them both.

However, considering Trump is also fucking up unrelated issues that Obama did not fuck up, that leaves him a far worse president. It is called nuance, it is how adults look at life. It is how we can acknowledge that George Washington was a slaveowning son of a bitch, and also a real stand up guy when it comes to politics and the military. How William Sherman was both a hero to African Americans when he marched across the south to save them from Slavery, and also a genocidal monster to Native Americans, as he ruthlessless exterminated them across the American West.

It is very important that when someone has a legacy of really horrible shit like this we remember what they are, and what they could have been. However, their good deeds are also worth remembering. This is entirely possible if you view public figures as flawed human beings, and not some sort of deity that must be all good or all bad.

Nuance and Accountability. Because the real world doesn't have a D&D alignment system.

[Resurgo]

bUt DeMoCrAtS hAvE oUr BeSt InTeReSt AnD rEpUbLiCaNs ArE fAsCiStS!

You do realize the world isn't black and white? I'm fully aware of the sarcasm inherent in your post, however, there are sliding scales. Speeding and Murder are both breaking the law, but one is a lot more evil than the other. Despite Democrats hardly being innocents in a two party system, I'll happily vote Democrat across the board if it keeps fascists like trump and his lot out of office.

[Powerogue]

Because this technology, infrastructure, and institutional knowledge tends to generalize to other domains and we never never know if there will be entirely new and unexpected problems in the future which could legitimately call for domestic surveillance.

Of course if you have absolutely zero trust in institutions then this won't be acceptable, that's up to each person to judge.

That's how this crap got implemented in the first place. "MAYBE we need it."

WE DON'T. This could well destroy our country in the same way as China. Not in the literal "on fire" sense, but in the "freedom no longer exists, we all have to live in constant fear of our own government" sort of destroyed.

[Jehct]

Look, I know holding your own side accountable is a foreign concept, but it is a real thing. Try it sometime. If Trump was doing better in this area then Obama was, I would absolutely give him credit for that. But he isn't, so damn them both.

However, considering Trump is also fucking up unrelated issues that Obama did not fuck up, that leaves him a far worse president. It is called nuance, it is how adults look at life. It is how we can acknowledge that George Washington was a slaveowning son of a bitch, and also a real stand up guy when it comes to politics and the military. How William Sherman was both a hero to African Americans when he marched across the south to save them from Slavery, and also a genocidal monster to Native Americans, as he ruthlessless exterminated them across the American West.

It is very important that when someone has a legacy of really horrible shit like this we remember what they are, and what they could have been. However, their good deeds are also worth remembering. This is entirely possible if you view public figures as flawed human beings, and not some sort of deity that must be all good or all bad.

Nuance and Accountability. Because the real world doesn't have a D&D alignment system.

Trump is trash. Obama wasn't as great as he's being portrayed also. Both parties are fucking terrible. Obama definitely made me feel good inside and thats partially why I voted for him in his first term. I was blind as fuck to the fact he signed the NDAA. He was ok with drone strikes on all sorts of people. Trump.. I can't think of a really great thing that guy has done in his 3ish years in office.. He doesn't make me feel good inside. fuck both parties is what im saying.