Should flying have DIED with TBC?

[Caerule]

In Vanilla, I made a ton of screenshots of myself on a Gryphon, getting to see the world I loved, from the sky.

In Cataclysm, my wish was granted. Full freedom to fly through this world.

I love to fly. I hope they never attempt to remove it again. The current compromise is fine.

[schwarzkopf]

My house burned down last night. Should I also burn my car?

Sounds like a plan - the strawman should provide adequate kindling.

Flying is a fundamentally flawed addition to a MMORPG - because you just skip half the letters in the name.

You avoid players, you avoid content and you avoid playing ... so you end up with an MO.

So yeah - they need to ditch Flying entirely - and provide short term flyers for areas that need them (think the box of rat mounts in the Dalaran Sewers).

[Darkeon]

Or they could go back into designing area maps with Flight in mind, as opposed to make movement at ground level a deliberate chore merely to increase 'engagement' metrics. Big shrug!

[schwarzkopf]

Or they could go back into designing area maps with Flight in mind,

They did that in one zone in Cataclysm - and people hated it.

Current content doesn't need flying. Sure give it to people who want to skip old content.

[Kaver]

My house burned down last night. Should I also burn my car?

So you're comparing Garrisons dying to your house burning down? That must mean you liked Garrisons.. unless you think your house burning down is a positive thing

[Jamie081]

I can't imagine places like Northrend, Deepholm, and Vashj'ir (the seahorse was a flying mount...) without flying. Ever since Blizzard got some stick up their ass about flying, zones just haven't been the same since. We got flat, shit zones like the majority of Pandaria.

They got the stick up their ass in WoD though since that was when they no longer wanted to do flying. It was also the beginning of claustrophobic, theme-parky zones like Tanaan Jungle. They started having zones with high mob density and deliberately frustrating geography that included dead-ends, high drops with high fall damage and quest objectives on different levels/tiers of the map, all being blocked by multiple hills and mountains to enforce more travel.

Pandaria was pretty open compared to what we got with Tanaan and the Broken Isles in Legion. The Broken Isles was the worst of it.

[kaminaris]

They did that in one zone in Cataclysm - and people hated it.

Current content doesn't need flying. Sure give it to people who want to skip old content.

Current content doesn't need flying because it can be ignored. I just cba to run thru all the WQ by foot. Thus I'm not doing WQs and only place I visit is dungeon/raid entrances which again, I skip it using flypath.

Ground movement is just slow and boring.

[Monoxide]

My house burned down last night. Should I also burn my car?

If you're a cop, sure.

[Stormspark]

No. Flying is and should be an integral part of the game. The FFXIV developers had no problem both making it something you earn, and something that is an integral part of both the game and the story. If the WOW developers can't do the same, they are just incompetent.

[Elias01]

Not with that attitude, anyway....

There have been countless player suggestions on how to design content with flying. And keep in mind here that it doesn't necessarily mean exclusively flying COMBAT. Content is more than just combat. We could have zones that are full of underground/indoor areas where flying/mounts are disabled, but also with open areas that flying is available. Fill those areas with obstacles or hazards; whether it's massive trees or other foliage that block LoS, making AFK flying ineffective, or patrolling dragons/worms/airships/griffons to make flying players pay attention, or even something as simple as the floating fortresses like we saw in WOTLK questing.

The problem is that people who regularly argue against the inclusion of flight try too hard to boil it down to a simplistic equation of "flying ruins everything". And it's much more complex than that. All it requires is a little bit of creativity and willingness of Blizzard to not try and pack every square inch of the open world with quests and mobs.

Exccept literaly all those suggestions are complete garbage. They would never work. Giant trees? Can you imagine zones with such giant trees? That would look so stupid. And so what? You would just fly by them it would be still more efficient than ground mounts runing around them. Obstacles in the air is also nonsense becouse Y axis have way too large space to fill. its too massive to fill it with any meaingfull danger. Just look at worms in Uldum. Literaly 0 threat becouse there is so little of them and they are danger in such small are they migh also be removed. Entire space air would have to clustered with such mobs to represent slightest challenge which would make look world desing really really stupid.

- - - Updated - - -

No. Flying is and should be an integral part of the game. The FFXIV developers had no problem both making it something you earn, and something that is an integral part of both the game and the story. If the WOW developers can't do the same, they are just incompetent.

You are not supostu make something part of content. This is about creating sense of world which you will nevre achieve with flying. Never. Look at vannila zones they are far more immersive than anything in moder game and lack of flying is one of the reasons why.

[LeginNoslen]

*walking miserably in the dirt, too poor or too lazy to get flying, watching people zip around in the air having the time of their lives*

"I don't think... there should be flying..."

That's you, that's what you sound like.

[SirCowdog]

Exccept literaly all those suggestions are complete garbage. They would never work. Giant trees? Can you imagine zones with such giant trees? That would look so stupid. And so what? You would just fly by them it would be still more efficient than ground mounts runing around them. Obstacles in the air is also nonsense becouse Y axis have way too large space to fill. its too massive to fill it with any meaingfull danger. Just look at worms in Uldum. Literaly 0 threat becouse there is so little of them and they are danger in such small are they migh also be removed. Entire space air would have to clustered with such mobs to represent slightest challenge which would make look world desing really really stupid.

Wow...how do you even get out of bed in the morning with such a negative, defeatist attitude? Seriously. No sarcasm intended. Read your own post. Literally everything is garbage, impossible, nonsense.

Can I imagine a zone with giant trees? Yes, actually. I'm thinking rainforest with multiple levels, or the forests of Endor. With large trunks reaching high, and a ceiling canopy of interlocking branches, and hanging vines. All with oversized birds flying between and horde/alliance bases built into the branches, snipers hidden behind camoflaged blinds, and rope-bridges everywhere. Or something along those lines, anyway. And that's just ONE idea for a zone.

Of course it would be challenging to design and navigate. But that's the point: To give WoW something it hasn't seen before. And it doesn't necessarily need to be trees, that was just the easiest thing to describe in short terms. Terrain could be anything that makes it so that AFK flying isn't feasible: Massive caverns with giant stalactites carved into fortresses hanging from the ceiling. Fogs, lava falls, dragon patrols, airship patrols, whatever.

The point is not to completely fill the air with so much crap that you can't move. It's mainly there to fulfill two objectives: Stop afk flying and provide setting and atmosphere. If there's a little bit of danger, that's icing on the cake, not the cake itself. The reason the worms in Uldum are meaningless is because they're the only things there. Put those worms inside Blackrock Mountain, and scatter quest objectives around the inside of the mountain as well. Put giant floating islands or massive airships surrounded by those worms.

Are you starting to get the idea? Probably not, considering you're fixated on NOT doing it rather than trying to see ways of making it work. Stuck in a box and unable to see anything outside of it. And when someone tells you "Hey, this might be kind of cool" you squeeze your eyes tight and respond: "That's stupid".

I can't imagine living like that.

[THEORACLE64]

I haven't forgot about it. I use it every time I go to Draenor to run old raids and dungeons or to the Halloween and Christmas world events. Player housing does not belong in a game of WARcraft.

Incorrect. It does, and Garrisons were a taste of that. They’re still terrible though - they’re one of the main reasons WoD was the worst expansion.

[Amarys]

I am not a fan of flying. In fact, I think it's awful. I think it detracts from this game being good, and why we have an outdoor world that is irrelevant at best. Because of flying, we need flying.
I'm not saying it's not a convenience. I am saying that is the problem.

I usually play the expansion until people get flying. After that, blaaaargh.

Same, I usually play till the flying patch, then maybe do old content and farm transmogs a bit and stop till like a month before the next expansion. I think flying is just really bad for the game, considering how badly it's implemented. It's not even flying, it's more like swimming in air using speed hacks as there is no acceleration, deceleration or collision.

[Arck908]

No - I'd like to see more cool things that require flying. I believe flying should be unlocked via a quest chain or "attunement" esque process at level cap (in the initial patch not 2-3 patches later behind a timegate rep grind) and unlock additional things to do (EX: Like being able to fly to Arcatraz, Mechanar, Botanica in TBC or that one raid in Cata that I can't remember atm as well as the Netherwing rep in TBC)

[catalystical]

I like it when it's there, I also like it when it's not. Because flying is so convenient, it should be one of those things they leave it to the end of the expansions, something that we work towards to during the course of the expansion, as a form of catching up.

[Heavens Night]

Garrisons died with WOD. Should flying have died with TBC as well?

Yes, I wish it had gone for good and its part of a massive problem with the game imo.

[araine]

clear cut no, design content around the fact that you MUST have a flying mount, make location for farming etc that you can only reach with a flying mount, make dungeons dependant on having flying mount to get there, and make flying more expensive like charge 100k gold or so for the privilege to use it in a current expansion. really the tools are out there for making flying great

[Bigcountry11782]

I still to this day after all the years don't understand why people loose their minds over flying.Why so much nerd rage over it i just don't get it.It is just a tool that helps you get around faster.

[ReleaseDay]

No. Flying is one of the best things in the game. Playing other MMOs (BDO for example) I hate being locked to the ground.