9.0 General Discussion

[Raetary]

Seeing how many people on Wowhead reacts to two male side-characters being gay, really shows how important it is to introduce a few here and there.
Its not like they go "Elune blessed our wedding with great warrior-dicks my cum-angel", its simply just mentioned and thats it
And so we move on with our quest and never see them again or hear from them again.
Lore-shattering

I also see people mentioning that BLM-movement is just bullshit in the same thread, lol.
How hard it must be to be a straight white man

Indeed, it's horrible.
People are even complaining about the Trevor project fundraiser.

How people can get mad at a fucking charity is beyond me.

Btw what happened to the Shaw and Flynn book?

There is a book?

[Varodoc]

The "real" "World" of Warcraft was when the world was populated with self-contained quests, quest chains and multiple competing factions that sometimes cooperated when their goals aligned. When faction leaders having the strength of 10 regular men was just a game mechanic and lore characters big or small were not so special as to require buildup before being allowed to die.

When the Scarlet Crusade was a political entity somewhat aligned with the Alliance and the Stormwind nobility were not banished from the lore. When the Dark Iron were a geopolitical entity, when the Forsaken were survivors and when the Grimtotem were conspiring.

You are welcome to prefer modern linear WoW storytelling, I am not all that impressed personally.

When the nobles of Kul Tiras were secretly plotting the kingdom's downfall for their dark desires? When King Rastakhan's court was full of manipulative bastards who were weakening the kingdom's defences from within? When the mighty champions of Azeroth were actually being used as pawns by Azshara? Yeah, I agree.

And it's a story. Basic storytelling dictates that when major lore characters die there should be some build-up. People always cite the Red Wedding as a good example of characters dying suddenly, but the Red Wedding was foreshadowed a lot before it actually happened.

Major deaths done solely for shock value are more often than not badly written. TBC and Season 8 of Game of Thrones proved this. No one liked how Kael'thas and Vashj were suddenly turned into loot bosses.

[Soikona]

If you're not interested in PvP then why bother having War Mode on? I still don't get this mentality.

Because as an alliance player, I get 30% more. Only reason people PVP atm seems to be for the CtA, as for me at least, those are the only zones with groups going for kills.

[Raetary]

Ah yeah, found it, it will only be out in October so a bit far from now.

Oh, you mean the Exploring Azeroth book?
https://www.amazon.com/World-Warcraf.../dp/1950366278

Didn't know Flynn and and Mathias were involved.

[Atticon]

Do we know if the levels quish is going to be a sliding scale?
For instance, if I were to make a DH starting at 98 right now, would that character squish to lvl 8 (the new starting level) when prepatch hits, or around lvl 40?

[Hellspawn]

Oh, you mean the Exploring Azeroth book?
https://www.amazon.com/World-Warcraf.../dp/1950366278

Didn't know Flynn and and Mathias were involved.

Aye, its the reason why I think that Shawn is into Flinn given his conversation with Valeera.

[gcsmith]

Aye, its the reason why I think that Shawn is into Flinn given his conversation with Valeera.

I thought that was Shaw's clumsy attempt at flirting with a fellow rogue.

[ravenmoon]

You guys are putting more thought into the lore than Blizzard have done since TBC. It isn't "World" of Warcraft anymore, it is "Marvel/DC" of Warcraft these days.

Its addiction. I do this more than most, especially regarding night elves.. and I realise this.. but we are meant to fantasise about the world

[formerShandalay]

Just for those saying Bwonsamdi is Azeroth-exclusive: he himself says he isn't. He's making deals elsewhere too. In his own words: "Bwonsamdi: Now ol' Bwonsamdi don't just be makin' deals on Azeroth. Brokers be lookin' for power... all kinda power.
Bwonsamdi: Dis one ain't gonna want ta give back me mojo. Careful now... she be tricky..."

I don't think any being that has a place in the Shadowlands can be exclusive to Azeroth.

[Varodoc]

Are you guys trolling or what? It's not "addiction", we are literally just speculating what the relationship between Elune and Eonar might be.

[formerShandalay]

Also, as a side note, didn't the Nightelves already share the power of the Night Warrior with Tyrande, at least in part? I thought that's where the black eyes for the Nightelves that were present at Darkshore came from?
So this shouldn't be as much of a problem as for those two, should it?

Kadarin: Please forgive my husband, Thiernax became the night Warrior to save our world, but he paid a dear price in the end.
Kadarin: Thiernax knew the risks, but we had no choice.
Kadarin: He invoked the dark power of Elune and together, we repelled the Invaders.
Kadarin: Though we had saved our world, the power of the night Warrior began to destroy him.
Kadarin: Desperate to save him we attempted to lessen his burden by sharing Elune's power between us.

[Raetary]

Any night elf that fights under the new moon gets the black eyes, they don't get any of Elunes actual powers.

It's more or less a mark that they are fighting for Elunes vengeance.

[Yarathir]

https://www.wowhead.com/news=316533/...eview-spoilers


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Because they don't mention Azeroth.

They are talking to us and Shandris, if they were Azerothian they would just mention it.
Instead they claim to have saved "their world" by doing the ritual.

We know ancient Kalimdors history, during the night elven empire there was never a world ending threat until the sundering and legion invasion at the very end of it.


Not to mention that we know we'll interact with non Azerothians in the shadowlands.

If they're not Night Elves, then I have no problem with it at all. I mean, Elune is already considered a deity for Tauren, if I recall, and Velen speculated she might be a Naaru. (pls god no) So I imagine she exists for multiple cultures and answers to them, too. Maybe she used to be as important to a previous culture as she is to the Night Elves now.

If they are Night Elves, it's gonna require a little bit of insight of Night Elven culture between the time they evolved from Dark Trolls and the Empire of Azshara because I don't recall them ever having touched on it. It would kind of kick out the feet from under the whole notion that Night Elf women were generally, culturally the warriors until recently, which is what I liked and probably arguably what a lot of people liked about them.

[Yarathir]

Hey, uh.... To anyone who has Alpha access and has been though De Other Side, are these textures used anywhere? I found it when searching through Wow.export

It's called 'Bwonsamdidungeon_glowpaint'



Ooor is it just nothing? Thought it looked interesting

The hand/footprints kind of remind me of Highway Star from Jojo

Haven't been there myself, but I would bet they're on walls.

Also you're right, they really do look like Highway Star tracks.

[formerShandalay]

Any night elf that fights under the new moon gets the black eyes, they don't get any of Elunes actual powers.

It's more or less a mark that they are fighting for Elunes vengeance.

Shandris didn't get black eyes, even though she was there, so it can't simply be the presence that makes it so (even though I know that's what Blizz said about it). It may be that you have to be there for longer and Shandris went back to the other parts of the war too quickly for her to get the black eyes. And did Kadarin get special powers too? It sounds more like Thiernax remained the one with the actual special powers, even though Kadarin shared some of the burden from it.
Hm. I guess we'll have to wait till we can get more info on it.
So far at least I like what I'm reading.

If they're not Night Elves, then I have no problem with it at all. I mean, Elune is already considered a deity for Tauren, if I recall, and Velen speculated she might be a Naaru. (pls god no) So I imagine she exists for multiple cultures and answers to them, too. Maybe she used to be as important to a previous culture as she is to the Night Elves now.

If they are Night Elves, it's gonna require a little bit of insight of Night Elven culture between the time they evolved from Dark Trolls and the Empire of Azshara because I don't recall them ever having touched on it. It would kind of kick out the feet from under the whole notion that Night Elf women were generally, culturally the warriors until recently, which is what I liked and probably arguably what a lot of people liked about them.

I mean, if it has been like that from shortly before the War of the Ancients (with 'shortly' I mean one- or twohundred years ) it would still have been generally culturally like that for 10k years, just not always before that. To me at least that would not be problem. And I'd very much like to see more about the transition from Troll to Nightelven culture, that'd be interesting to me. I loved reading 'Elun'alor Temple' when I went to Nazjatar for the first time, because that seemed very reminiscent of the older Troll culture there.
Although I do think those two are not actually from Azeroth from the way they say 'our world' in the dialogue.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

The "real" "World" of Warcraft was when the world was populated with self-contained quests, quest chains and multiple competing factions that sometimes cooperated when their goals aligned. When faction leaders having the strength of 10 regular men was just a game mechanic and lore characters big or small were not so special as to require buildup before being allowed to die.

When the Scarlet Crusade was a political entity somewhat aligned with the Alliance and the Stormwind nobility were not banished from the lore. When the Dark Iron were a geopolitical entity, when the Forsaken were survivors and when the Grimtotem were conspiring.

You are welcome to prefer modern linear WoW storytelling, I am not all that impressed personally.

So nostalgia basically... characters do need build up, random killing off is not fun.

[Yarathir]

I figured it was male blood elf rig for the longest time. Perhaps that was just when they were introduced in MoP as NPCs (as the walking stance etc in ToT was directly related to how the old blood elf guard NPCs would walk). I can see how it would be night elf now.

Well, to be specific, it was the Night Elf rig in ToT, and they added a few unique animations, like the walk, to it back then, but most of them were Night Elf.

In BfA, the player Zandalari use the same animations as the ToT rig, and I think other than that, a few new unique ones. I know the sit is different from the Night Elf one, but it was the same in the files for a long time.

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I mean, if it has been like that from shortly before the War of the Ancients (with 'shortly' I mean one- or twohundred years ) it would still have been generally culturally like that for 10k years, just not always before that. To me at least that would not be problem. And I'd very much like to see more about the transition from Troll to Nightelven culture, that'd be interesting to me. I loved reading 'Elun'alor Temple' when I went to Nazjatar for the first time, because that seemed very reminiscent of the older Troll culture there.
Although I do think those two are not actually from Azeroth from the way they say 'our world' in the dialogue.

Well, the thing here is that even without Nozdormu's gift, Night Elves are very, very long-lived, able to live thousands upon thousands of years. Tyrande herself is 10.000+ years. To imagine that a ritual might be enigmatic and 'lost in time' by Night Elf standards would mean that it would have to be very old.

Imagine all the historical events we would've experienced and remember if we could live not a 1000 years, but 10.000 years.

[Sondrelk]

If they're not Night Elves, then I have no problem with it at all. I mean, Elune is already considered a deity for Tauren, if I recall, and Velen speculated she might be a Naaru. (pls god no) So I imagine she exists for multiple cultures and answers to them, too. Maybe she used to be as important to a previous culture as she is to the Night Elves now.

If they are Night Elves, it's gonna require a little bit of insight of Night Elven culture between the time they evolved from Dark Trolls and the Empire of Azshara because I don't recall them ever having touched on it. It would kind of kick out the feet from under the whole notion that Night Elf women were generally, culturally the warriors until recently, which is what I liked and probably arguably what a lot of people liked about them.

Pretty sure that nelf women were the warriors beginning quite recently. We know that nelf males were warriors back during the Legion invasion, and seeing as we have no history that I know of before then it is safe to assume they were before too.

In short, the Night Warrior always being female is only the case for the one specific instance we know of, and likely not representative of the entire Nelf history.
Remember, we only know that Nelf women were generally the priests until the nelf males became druids leaving only females as warriors and other high level positions after the war of the ancients.

[formerShandalay]

Well, to be specific, it was the Night Elf rig in ToT, and they added a few unique animations, like the walk, to it back then, but most of them were Night Elf.

In BfA, the player Zandalari use the same animations as the ToT rig, and I think other than that, a few new unique ones. I know the sit is different from the Night Elf one, but it was the same in the files for a long time.

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Well, the thing here is that even without Nozdormu's gift, Night Elves are very, very long-lived, able to live thousands upon thousands of years. Tyrande herself is 10.000+ years. To imagine that a ritual might be enigmatic and 'lost in time' by Night Elf standards would mean that it would have to be very old.

Imagine all the historical events we would've experienced and remember if we could live not a 1000 years, but 10.000 years.

Yea, I always wonder if that would be great and exciting or more like horryfying
In the War of the Ancients, Tyrande was a novice priest, so if the priesthood changed somewhat before that, even she might say that it's been culturally the way she herself experienced it. There must have been a time before that, because there was even a time before Azshara became queen and they already had a rich culture back then, which was at least in part separate from the Troll culture before. When Azshara took over, they were already 'Nightelves' not 'Trolls', at least as far as we know. So how long was that period, 5k years or also more like 10k years from Troll tribe to Azshara's reign? We know nothing about it and it may have been extremely different from all we and even the 10k year old Nightelves that still live today know, so to claim a 'retcon' because there's male priests from a time no one knows anything about is kind of a stretch, I think.
We also didn't say it's a retcon when we found out that there used to be Nightelven mages back before the War of the Ancients, even tough in the Nightelven culture from WC3 there was no place for mages and that was 10k years old too.

[Hellspawn]

So, I think these two new night warriors may be no night elfs. As people already pointed, they talk about "their world" and not Azeroth. Also the world ending even would have been in the chronicles and it seems unlikely that they add such a big event for two characters who are just there to give Shandris a direction on how to deal with the night warrior. The only event that would make sense to me on Azeroth would be that these two are trolls who worshipped Elune and fought the Aqir/Kith'ix/...
But I really doubt that and its kind of stupid, you can make it fit but it would be rewriting history if we are honest here.