Why Don't Blizz's Writers Respect Their Predecessors?

[ClassicPeon]

She has said she is a massive Alliance fan. You can see it in ALL her writing. She goes out of here way to villainize the Horde while putting the Alliance on a pedestal. The Alliance is incapable of doing ANYTHING wrong. She's been setting fire to the story ever since she joined the team.

Nathanos is LITERALLY a self-insert and Golden adores Anduin so she does everything she can to make him perfect. BfA and what I've read of Shadowlands literally reads like a really terrible fan-fiction.

I'll list the most egregious lore retcons they are doing for Shadowlands:
1. The Helm of Domination and Frostmourne were now apparently created in the Shadowlands and were stolen by the Nathrezim for Kil'jaedan. Before this retcon, Kil'jaedan created those two artifacts but now he's been turned into a two-bit crook.
2. Sylvanas has been funneling souls to the Jailer since Edge of Night. This is a retcon of lore as recent as BfA when both the Lich King and Bwonsamdi expressed their displeasure with Sylvanas because her necromancy was preventing souls from moving on.
3. The Shadowlands was always a place that was a black and white misty version of whatever planet you were on. There are numerous quests that have you actively entering the Shadowlands. Now, suddenly, it has multiple lands with unique races which makes NO fucking sense.
4. Frostmourne and the Helm of Domination were equally powerful artifacts. Yet when Frostmourne was shattered, all it did was release the souls trapped inside yet when the Helm was broken it ripped a hole in the time space continuum. Makes no fucking sense.

These are just 4 of the worst examples of retconning in Shadowlands. Blizzard absolutely do not fucking care about lore cohesion anymore.

You do realize that she doesnt have the responsebility for all of blizzards lore right? That its vetted by a lot of people before it just gets released?


1. No. The helm was said to have been created by the nathrezim which is still very possible.
2. We dont have official confirmation about when Sylvanas started working for the Jailer. This is speculation.
3. Thats not a retcon. You still go to a shadowlands like world when you die on azeroth, outland and so forth and run to your body.
4. Where are you getting this from? Feelcraft.com? The helm was the link between the worlds hence why it shattered the barrier. That doesnt mean the item itself was inherently more powerful to the person who wore it

[Thage]

She is? The same Golden that couldn't be bothered to make research into the Forsaken as rudimentary as playing their first goddamn post-Cataclysm quest despite being unfamiliar with the race by her own later admission, which led to things as idiotic as Sylvanas herself calling Faol a Forsaken in the very same sentence in which she pondered the fact he hasn't joined her people? Which not only shits all over that very first quest of the race, its lore as a hole but even on something as basic as the concept of membership in something? And the "best" part is that in her prior book she wrote about some Death Knights in the Alliance, so her treating "Forsaken" as some stand in term for any any all free willed undead in BtS is inconsistent even with her own work. If that was her trying, I dread to think what nonsensical stories she'll write once she stops.

Point of order, I did not say she was doing a good job. You ought to know well enough my opinion of the story as it stands (I believe I recently used the phrase 'a dumpster fire of ruined septic tanks'). But Golden is making an effort; that she, like Holinka, Danuser, and Afrasiabi, occupies a position at the company above her competence isn't really her fault here.

[justandulas]

The writing has been embarrassingly bad for years now, ever since wod.

It’s like a collection of fan girl fan fiction

[Bigbazz]

Every retcon damages the integrity of the story, because it means that any story you're currently experiencing is subject to not exist in the future. But hey if they can do it with Star Wars, they will do it with Warcraft.

[Soon-TM]

It’s like a collection of fan girl fan fiction

While I agree with this, it wasn't a lot better either before Golden/Roux. Things like Thrall Sue and the butchering of DW in Cata, the Manichaean characterisation of both Alliance and Horde since late WotLK, and ALL of the lore trainwreck of BC took place with guys at the helm.

But for all its flaws, the pre-Golden writing at least didn't have those irritating, cringey, morality lessons - moreso with how self-defeating they are.

[Thrif]

WarCraft lore has been hilariously inconsistent and consistently retconned ever since WarCraft 3, so it has always been better to just sit back and enjoy the non-serious roller coaster of imagination for what it is.

[Soon-TM]

Why would they respect it? What's the incentive, people are going to play regardless.

Well, people also play e.g. ESO, and despite other flaws, they have a "lore commitee" of sorts, which not only has writers in it, but also some reputedly knowledgeable players. And its sole role is to ensure that the story has a good degree of consistency and continuity, which they've achieved to a large extent. Much larger than anything in WoW, anyway.

[AsgardBY99]

I personally think that Warcraft players should engage in a Warcraft history of their own, based on the old ancient war and orc war history, Alsace, in creating a new story, instead of always discussing Blizzard's setting, Blizzard's World of Warcraft story, has completely become a tool to serve gameplay, rather than allowing the game to serve the story into the post-apocalyptic, visible future, Blizzard's story will be the same as the Hollywood TV series, for popularity haphazardly changed, now the decline of Blizzard has actually lost the ability to tell a good story.

[DemonHunter18]

She has said she is a massive Alliance fan. You can see it in ALL her writing. She goes out of here way to villainize the Horde while putting the Alliance on a pedestal. The Alliance is incapable of doing ANYTHING wrong. She's been setting fire to the story ever since she joined the team.

Nathanos is LITERALLY a self-insert and Golden adores Anduin so she does everything she can to make him perfect. BfA and what I've read of Shadowlands literally reads like a really terrible fan-fiction.

I'll list the most egregious lore retcons they are doing for Shadowlands:
1. The Helm of Domination and Frostmourne were now apparently created in the Shadowlands and were stolen by the Nathrezim for Kil'jaedan. Before this retcon, Kil'jaedan created those two artifacts but now he's been turned into a two-bit crook.
2. Sylvanas has been funneling souls to the Jailer since Edge of Night. This is a retcon of lore as recent as BfA when both the Lich King and Bwonsamdi expressed their displeasure with Sylvanas because her necromancy was preventing souls from moving on.
3. The Shadowlands was always a place that was a black and white misty version of whatever planet you were on. There are numerous quests that have you actively entering the Shadowlands. Now, suddenly, it has multiple lands with unique races which makes NO fucking sense.
4. Frostmourne and the Helm of Domination were equally powerful artifacts. Yet when Frostmourne was shattered, all it did was release the souls trapped inside yet when the Helm was broken it ripped a hole in the time space continuum. Makes no fucking sense.

These are just 4 of the worst examples of retconning in Shadowlands. Blizzard absolutely do not fucking care about lore cohesion anymore.

don't forget that Golden has a cat literally called Sylvanas as well LFMAO.

[Talrath]

Thing is that the writers tried to make a story with something going on behind the scenes and that the players had to figure things out, just like in game of thrones books. They even said it during an interview, not the game of thrones part, but that they want the players to think part. But that doesn't work for wow, since then you HAVE to spend a lot of writing in every single major character, in what they are doing and what they are thinking etc etc. The writers are definitely not qualified to do this and doing this takes a lot of time spend on planning.

Also during the interview, Steve danuser had to audacity to say that players don't like the above kind of story. Yeah we don't like that kind of writing, IF YOU DON'T EXECUTE IT PROPERLY.

Wow is meant to make some stupid big action look cool, just like marvel. Don't be like DC since you will screw it up. IF they updated every characters journey then they could write a wonderful story. Just look at Ff14, every major character that once was introduced gets screentime so that we know what's going on, are they growing or going bad etc etc. And most wonderful thing is that all lore is in the game, you don't need to read the chronicles or whatever.

[ClassicPeon]

don't forget that Golden has a cat literally called Sylvanas as well LFMAO.

What difference is that supposed to make?

[DemonHunter18]

What difference is that supposed to make?

did I say it does

I'm only adding that she doesn't adore Anduin only.

[TheRevenantHero]

You do realize that she doesnt have the responsebility for all of blizzards lore right? That its vetted by a lot of people before it just gets released?


1. No. The helm was said to have been created by the nathrezim which is still very possible.
2. We dont have official confirmation about when Sylvanas started working for the Jailer. This is speculation.
3. Thats not a retcon. You still go to a shadowlands like world when you die on azeroth, outland and so forth and run to your body.
4. Where are you getting this from? Feelcraft.com? The helm was the link between the worlds hence why it shattered the barrier. That doesnt mean the item itself was inherently more powerful to the person who wore it

1. No. The new lore is that both artifacts were created in the Shadowlands and stolen by the Nathrezim.
2. Yes we do. It was confirmed that she has been working with the Jailer since Edge of Night.
3. It is a MASSIVE retcon. Because originally the Shadowlands wasn't some unique realm. It was just a misty black and white version of the world you were on. We go there numerous times across expansions. Turning it into a place of numerous "realms", one of them being a fucking vibrant forest, is just absolutely stupid.
4. There was absolutely NOTHING in the lore that suggested the Hem was the link between worlds. Before that god awful cinematic, the Helm was simply an incredibly powerful artifact that gave the wearer dominion over the Scourge. Frostmourne and the Helm were equal in power yet when Frostmourne was destroyed it didn't cause a cataclysmic effect like the Helm which makes NO sense.

Golden has enough sway in the writing team that her presence is destroying what little integrity Blizzard's writing team had left.

[Paperfox]

I do not think that this is only affecting WoW, rather I think that all franchises get this: Lara Croft, Star Trek, [superhero] movie and so on. How many times have we seen someone re-telling or re-imagining the origin story?

[Powerogue]

I do not think that this is only affecting WoW, rather I think that all franchises get this: Lara Croft, Star Trek, [superhero] movie and so on. How many times have we seen someone re-telling or re-imagining the origin story?

I don't think Telltale Batman was "disrespecting" Batman's parents by making them crooked and directly responsible for Cobblepot's family ruin, among others.

While there's still some difference between continuing a story in a different direction and writing a new story inspired by an old one, AU Gul'dan comes to mind. Still one of their best characters, and it never came off to me as "disrespecting" MU Gul'dan as an apprentice of Ner'zhul.

[ClassicPeon]

1. No. The new lore is that both artifacts were created in the Shadowlands and stolen by the Nathrezim.
2. Yes we do. It was confirmed that she has been working with the Jailer since Edge of Night.
3. It is a MASSIVE retcon. Because originally the Shadowlands wasn't some unique realm. It was just a misty black and white version of the world you were on. We go there numerous times across expansions. Turning it into a place of numerous "realms", one of them being a fucking vibrant forest, is just absolutely stupid.
4. There was absolutely NOTHING in the lore that suggested the Hem was the link between worlds. Before that god awful cinematic, the Helm was simply an incredibly powerful artifact that gave the wearer dominion over the Scourge. Frostmourne and the Helm were equal in power yet when Frostmourne was destroyed it didn't cause a cataclysmic effect like the Helm which makes NO sense.

Golden has enough sway in the writing team that her presence is destroying what little integrity Blizzard's writing team had left.

1. Afaik the new lore is that the Special dude made them in the shadowlands. THe old lore is that the nathrezim did it.
2. Where?
3. Said who? Like literally? Who ever said that all shadowlands was only " just a misty black and white version of the world you were on"?
4. And here is where you misunderstand the word recton, as i knew you would. Retcon is when you go against pre established lore. Retcon is not when you add to extisting lore. I KNEW you would move the goalposts like this which is why i made the post in the first place. Blizzard HAS to add to the lore to create new stuff for us to do. Its childish to think anything else.

[Mehrunes]

Point of order, I did not say she was doing a good job. You ought to know well enough my opinion of the story as it stands (I believe I recently used the phrase 'a dumpster fire of ruined septic tanks'). But Golden is making an effort; that she, like Holinka, Danuser, and Afrasiabi, occupies a position at the company above her competence isn't really her fault here.

I know you didn't say she was doing a good job and I haven't said that's what you said. You did however say that she's trying, which you reiterated here by claiming she's making an effort. And while I suppose it could still technically fall under YMMV, to me the very concept of trying cannot be reconciled with Golden being unable to even play through the very first Forsaken in the live version of the game before writing about them, especially in case where she was out of her Warcraft writing depth there. Like I already said in another reply, the time it'd take her to make a character (even without customizing them and rolling with the proposed random look) and log into the game for the first time on that character would still be longer than the time required to read through that quest text once she'd be logged in. Being unable to do even that is the antithesis of effort in my eyes.

2. Where?

Blizzcon. Besides, what @TheRevenantHero said isn't even the only problem with Sylvanas' actions. Her behavior in BfA and the further Blizzcon reveals contradict even her internal monologues from the pre-BfA out of game material.

[DemonHunter18]

I know you didn't say she was doing a good job and I haven't said that's what you said. You did however say that she's trying, which you reiterated here by claiming she's making an effort. And while I suppose it could still technically fall under YMMV, to me the very concept of trying cannot be reconciled with Golden being unable to even play through the very first Forsaken in the live version of the game before writing about them, especially in case where she was out of her Warcraft writing depth there. Like I already said in another reply, the time it'd take her to make a character (even without customizing them and rolling with the proposed random look) and log into the game for the first time on that character would still be longer than the time required to read through that quest text once she'd be logged in. Being unable to do even that is the antithesis of effort in my eyes.


Blizzcon. Besides, what @TheRevenantHero said isn't even the only problem with Sylvanas' actions. Her behavior in BfA and the further Blizzcon reveals contradict even her internal monologues from the pre-BfA out of game material.

I'm confident that story writers don't even read quest logs mos of the time.

I mean, they said that they unintentionally retcon stuff which is another way of saying We don't look back on the lore in previous expansions.

like, is it so hard to place some huge board in one of their gigantic quarters and literally just write some small tid bits on what you did previously so you don't retcon it in the future???

I would literally just hire a few guys/girls to keep track of that.

[ClassicPeon]

I know you didn't say she was doing a good job and I haven't said that's what you said. You did however say that she's trying, which you reiterated here by claiming she's making an effort. And while I suppose it could still technically fall under YMMV, to me the very concept of trying cannot be reconciled with Golden being unable to even play through the very first Forsaken in the live version of the game before writing about them, especially in case where she was out of her Warcraft writing depth there. Like I already said in another reply, the time it'd take her to make a character (even without customizing them and rolling with the proposed random look) and log into the game for the first time on that character would still be longer than the time required to read through that quest text once she'd be logged in. Being unable to do even that is the antithesis of effort in my eyes.




Blizzcon. Besides, what @TheRevenantHero said isn't even the only problem with Sylvanas' actions. Her behavior in BfA and the further Blizzcon reveals contradict even her internal monologues from the pre-BfA out of game material.

You need to provide som actual qutoes and stuff.

Can i get a link to this:
"his is a retcon of lore as recent as BfA when both the Lich King and Bwonsamdi expressed their displeasure with Sylvanas because her necromancy was preventing souls from moving on." ?

[DemonHunter18]

You need to provide som actual qutoes and stuff.

Can i get a link to this:
"his is a retcon of lore as recent as BfA when both the Lich King and Bwonsamdi expressed their displeasure with Sylvanas because her necromancy was preventing souls from moving on." ?

they don't.

it was already discussed many times when Shadowlands was announced and @Mehrunes and @TheRevenantHero know what they are talking about.

trust me.