[Megathread] Final Fantasy XIV

[StrawberryZebra]

I like summoners phases and temporary summons very much. They feel great, Bahamut going Akh Morn is awesome and they change the playstyle somewhat.

This is what I'd like to see too. The current Cycle where you go from DoT Phase -> Nuke Phase -> Pet Nuke Phase -> DoT phase -> Nuke + Pet nuke phase isn't really what the Job Fantasy is. A lot of that is the reminants of older Summoner designs that have been changed as the game has moved on, but that design debt is really holding back on the Job potential.

Going from Ifrit -> Shiva -> Bahamut -> Ramuh -> Leviathan -> Phoenix, with a bursty finisher between each phase is much closer to how I would imagine the Summoner playing in an MMO.

Sadly, I can't see them ever changing the job in this kind of way. The fact that they've integrated abilities you learn into the story means that any kind of Job overhaul can potentialy also mean a re-write for the job story too. There are also, no doubt, players who enjoy the Summoner in it's current form who would be very upset if things were changed this dramatically. It would go far beyond just a simple redesign.

It wouldn't even be like Machninst, where they kept most of the abilities and names, but changed how they functioned. It would be straight up replacing one job with an entirely different one that just happened to have the same name.

[Granyala]

Yeah, there is no way they'll get rid of the damned pet now.
Though I'd be satisfied with them putting the dumb skills back on auto pilot. I REALLY don't want to manually manage basic pet attacks.

[Katchii]

Yeah, there is no way they'll get rid of the damned pet now.
Though I'd be satisfied with them putting the dumb skills back on auto pilot. I REALLY don't want to manually manage basic pet attacks.

I just want it to actually feel and play like a pet job again, because right now it doesn't, it just LOOKS like one because the animated floating thing next to you is doing the attacks but it's still the character controlling and activating them.

And I actually don't like the burst windows/phases, at least how they are now with how long it takes to build up to them to finally use them and then being able to waste them (either partially or completely) if you don't time it correctly with the boss phases. It's really rewarding if you time it right, but it's incredibly unsatisfying if you don't get it right and then it's a pain in the ass to get back in rhythm if you screw it up.

[Granyala]

being able to waste them (either partially or completely) if you don't time it correctly with the boss phases. It's really rewarding if you time it right, but it's incredibly unsatisfying if you don't get it right and then it's a pain in the ass to get back in rhythm if you screw it up.

Working as intended and is called "having skill".
Yes, I realize that fumbling it is frustrating. It is supposed to be.

[StrawberryZebra]

Working as intended and is called "having skill".
Yes, I realize that fumbling it is frustrating. It is supposed to be.

Arguably the Summoner suffers more than most though. By delaying one cooldown, you're effectively delaying the entireity of your rotation. If your groups DPS is low and you need to save Bahamut for a specific mechanic or phase then you're forced to handicap your damage.

If your groups DPS is abnormally high and you're pushing through phases before you can line them up with your cooldowns, you're also going to be missing out on potential DPS. You can't pool resources and save for those phases that require high DPS. You can't rapidly skip to the Burst parts of your rotation using cooldowns the way other jobs can.

Everything being tied to consequtive timers rather than player driven resources can make the job very unwieldy in practical situations.

Pretty much every Job suffers from this though to some degree. It's why you see lots of players just holding onto their cooldowns and burst phases for bosses. The build up is too long and the effects too powerful to get wrong and "waste", and they really don't want to get it wrong.

However most do eventually get some way to avoid or delay their burst windows without overcapping and wasting their resources, and without it throwing the rest of their rotations completely off. Short of inventing a time machine, Summoners get no such option.

[Granyala]

By delaying one cooldown, you're effectively delaying the entireity of your rotation. If your groups DPS is low and you need to save Bahamut for a specific mechanic or phase then you're forced to handicap your damage.

I know I am going against the grain saying this but last time I checked killing the boss is the goal of the game and not the ridiculous E-Peen DPS contest.
As such, holding on to CDs for problematic phases and thus sacrificing overall DPS is a valid tactical decision, provides the DPS isn't needed elsewhere. If it is, the SMN needs to just push through all the time and others need to pick up the slack in the problematic phase.

Not every class has to have burst on demand and that is okay.
It's one way for classes to differentiate themselves from each other. I played SPriest for many years, so I know how a lack of burst cooldowns feels.

[Dugna]

next Live letter part 2 of 5.3 info was canceled, so instead they will just post the details and date of patch release first week of July on their forums.

Quote from Yoshi on the stream announcing this said patch 5.3 story is about movie length in terms of just story July looking to be a good month now

[Rogalicus]

Quote from Yoshi on the stream announcing this said patch 5.3 story is about movie length in terms of just story

So the usual hour and a half?

[Dugna]

So the usual hour and a half?

saying it should be longer so maybe 2-3 hrs if you just let it autoplay and eat a snack he wasn't exact. But its the end of the SHB story so it should be decent.

[Granyala]

But its the end of the SHB story so it should be decent.

Already? Hmm feels too soon.
Wonder if they'll do a 5.4 or whether that's really it until the next expansion.

[Sae]

Already? Hmm feels too soon.
Wonder if they'll do a 5.4 or whether that's really it until the next expansion.

There should most likely be a 5.4, afaik 5.3 won't be adding the third Eden raid (just Nier 2) so we'll need at least another patch (or two, if 5.4 doesn't contain both an Eden raid and the third 24-man)

End of the SHB story could just mean that we're returning to Eorzea proper for the next patch or two, story-wise.

[Dakhath]

Generally the current xpac story ends at the .3 patch and then the next two are leading into the new expansion. I remember reading awhile ago that they were already working on the 6.0 opening cinematic, so we shall see what the latter half of this year brings.

[Granyala]

I remember reading awhile ago that they were already working on the 6.0 opening cinematic, so we shall see what the latter half of this year brings.

If they work like Blizzard does, they have been working on that one since before ShB was released.
IIRC Metzen stated that he worked on the BfA cinematic.

[StrawberryZebra]

As such, holding on to CDs for problematic phases and thus sacrificing overall DPS is a valid tactical decision, provides the DPS isn't needed elsewhere. If it is, the SMN needs to just push through all the time and others need to pick up the slack in the problematic phase.

In a real world situation however, your Dragoon died 60 seconds into the fight and the Res sickness means your raid DPS is going to be too low for your timers to line up with phase changes. Your raid is then going to lose additional DPS because your Summoner has to either delay Bahamut/Phoenix, or not have it ready for a phase where it's perhaps most useful.

A Red Mage could simply spend their over capped Mana on Reprise or Moulinet as appropriate and get some value from their resources without allowing them to be wasted. They could even, cooldown depending, use it on their full combo and have it ready to go again using Manafication. A Black Mage can store upto 2 Charges of Polyglot, and be building towards a third so they can always go into high DPS phases fully loaded.

As a Summoner, you've got no good options for that situation. Even if you're doing everything right, you're still doing things "wrong". Your group can have a profound difference on how you approach the same encounter. No other job has to deal with that kind of nonesense - The Summoner is just too rigid and inflexible to adapt to changing circumstances.

As for Jobs without burst windows, that's fine from a conceptual level. Just high consitent damage isn't a problem from a design point of view either - However few Jobs in FF14 currently fit into that mould. Most jobs are generally designed around a long build up into a 20 seconds ish window where you get the pay off for that build up. Obviously the best way to really capitalise on it is to sync those up with raid buffs and watch the DPS just take off.

[Kaelwryn]

Already? Hmm feels too soon.
Wonder if they'll do a 5.4 or whether that's really it until the next expansion.

People are mistaking "end of shb" as "the final patch", when its talking about the finale of the story for the expansion. This is exactly the same way that heavensward and stormblood went. 3.3 and 4.3 were the "end" of those respective expansion stories. The final two patches lead up into the next expac. Though 3.4 mostly sets up for shadowbringers, rather than stormblood.

[Val the Moofia Boss]

People are mistaking "end of shb" as "the final patch", when its talking about the finale of the story for the expansion. This is exactly the same way that heavensward and stormblood went. 3.3 and 4.3 were the "end" of those respective expansion stories. The final two patches lead up into the next expac. Though 3.4 mostly sets up for shadowbringers, rather than stormblood.

Shadowbringers wasn't planned when the WoD arc was playing out in HW. More like the WoD arc was a subplot created to fill time in between the Ishgard stuff and the impending Stormblood story.

[Kaelwryn]

Shadowbringers wasn't planned when the WoD arc was playing out in HW. More like the WoD arc was a subplot created to fill time in between the Ishgard stuff and the impending Stormblood story.

I'd like your source on that. Regardless, my point was that 3.4 doesn't really follow 2.4 and 4.4 in that they both starting to set up the pieces for the next expansion's story. Like whether shadowbringers was planned at that point or not is irrelevant, 3.4 does not set up for stormblood's arc for the most part. It does put down the pieces for shadowbringers, even if that wasn't their intention back in heavensward.


Well to correct myself, 4.4 also doesn't quite focus on leading into shadowbringers either. Since Scions starting to be called isn't a major focus, we're still largely dealing with doma and garlemald at that point. 4.4's set up at the very least likely isn't going to take a whole expac before coming back to it since 5.4 is likely going to swing back to us on the source and dealing with garlemald.

[Hyral]

Already? Hmm feels too soon.
Wonder if they'll do a 5.4 or whether that's really it until the next expansion.

I think they mean how the patches have been set up before.

Patch 3.3 (Revenge of the Horde) was basically the end of the Dragonsong War, with 3.4 (Soul Surrender) and 3.5 (Far Edge of Fate) easing us into and setting up the next storyline. Patch 4.3 (Under the Moonlight) was the end of most of our involvement with Doma, with 4.4 (Prelude in Violet) and 4.5 (A Requiem for Heroes) leading to ShB (in a terrific way).

On a side note, after playing ShB, I now see patch 4.5's title with a much more somber meaning than what was apparent at the time.

- - - Updated - - -

I'd like your source on that. Regardless, my point was that 3.4 doesn't really follow 2.4 and 4.4 in that they both starting to set up the pieces for the next expansion's story. Like whether shadowbringers was planned at that point or not is irrelevant, 3.4 does not set up for stormblood's arc for the most part. It does put down the pieces for shadowbringers, even if that wasn't their intention back in heavensward.


Well to correct myself, 4.4 also doesn't quite focus on leading into shadowbringers either. Since Scions starting to be called isn't a major focus, we're still largely dealing with doma and garlemald at that point. 4.4's set up at the very least likely isn't going to take a whole expac before coming back to it since 5.4 is likely going to swing back to us on the source and dealing with garlemald.

4.3 is where most of the Doma stuff ends. 4.4 is about Garlemald's push into Eorzea and we go back to Doma just to get that generator working, the focus is Garlemald and the sudden affliction the Scions get (which is part of the ShB plot). 4.5 is the war and the affliction coming to a head and then the introduction of the Chrystal Exarch, though we don't know him by that name yet.

[Val the Moofia Boss]

I'd like your source on that. Regardless, my point was that 3.4 doesn't really follow 2.4 and 4.4 in that they both starting to set up the pieces for the next expansion's story. Like whether shadowbringers was planned at that point or not is irrelevant, 3.4 does not set up for stormblood's arc for the most part. It does put down the pieces for shadowbringers, even if that wasn't their intention back in heavensward.

• The Crystal Tower story was made to be a self contained story, with the possibility that they could do a sequel later on.

• Likewise, the Warriors of Darkness subplot in 3.4 left the door open for a sequel storyline if they wanted to but they had nothing concrete.

• After Stormblood released, Yoshida gave the writers three requirements for the story of the next expansion: 1. it had to be set on the First, 2. it'd be about the player becoming the Warrior of Darkness/Dark Knight, and 3. the Scions had to be featured.

• Ishikawa used the opportunity to bring back old characters like G'raha Tia.

• Emet-Selch was created during Stormblood while they were writing ShB, and realized they could try to tie up the story by retconning him in as Emperor Solus, who was up until that point just a historical figure in the background.

It's a lot of coincidences that happened to line up in just a way that people were convinced it was planned out from the beginning. I think it has placed unrealistic expectations in the minds of the fandom that everything is connected and is going to tie together in some way. Ofcourse, that isn't to say they don't have a loose outline but they certainly didn't have these details planned out.

Gamespot: Narrative is one of the most important things in FFXIV, especially for Shadowbringers. How involved were you with the story's creation and what sort of direction did you provide the writing team?

Naoki Yoshida: The first step is creating the overall game design for the expansion pack. With Shadowbringers, after we had completed the base design phase, I provided three initial directions to the development team:

1) The story will be set in the "First." 2) The dark knight will be the “main job.” (i.e. becoming the Warrior of Darkness will be the main objective) 3) We will be implementing the Trust system, so the story should center around an adventure with the members of the Scions of the Seventh Dawn.

(link)

The development process for Final Fantasy XIV: Shadowbringers started in Summer of 2017 shortly after the release of Final Fantasy XIV: Stormblood. Producer and Director Naoki Yoshida approached the team with a few directives: “Let’s go to the First!”, and “It would be cool to add trusts and bring the Scions into the dungeons.”

(link)

T-ONO: In regards to the planning process, I know you worked on the Crystal Tower in 2.0. Was Shadowbringers planned that far back? Almost 4-5 years ago?

Natsuko Ishikawa: When we were working on ARR, we never knew if we were going to have an expansion, and even if we knew, we didn’t know how many. With G’raha Tia being part of the Crystal Tower, we did want to tell his part of the story of what happened to him afterwards. We just didn’t know when we were going to tell that story.

Over the course of the last few years, there was a talk about the new expansion, and how we were going to have some sort of connection with it. I felt that it was a great time to bring up that story.

(link)

Gamer Escape: One of the bigger elements of Shadowbringers is the Crystal Exarch. When did you decide that you would bring back G’raha Tia?

Natsuko Ishikawa: We definitely had the idea by the time we got to writing the narrative for Shadowbringers. Of course, when we first introduced the Crystal Tower series and the conclusion it had, the team did have this feeling of “Oh we would love to have him come back in some way, some time” and we still hadn’t pinpointed when we wanted to introduce him back. Those two ideas existed and when Yoshida brought up the idea of Shadowbringers, when we were trying to decide on the story and the central gimmick of where we want to take the narrative, I felt it would click to have him come back and that it was the appropriate time.

RpgGamer: First, I wanted to ask how long ago it was decided that you would take players to The First?

Naoki Yoshida: First and foremost, when we were thinking about Patch 3.4, around three years ago, when we were trying to decide what the story was going to be like, we did have the thought that we wanted to depict the realm being shattered. Because the realm is shattered into fourteen different worlds, including The Source, we wanted to explain that through our narrative at one point. Not necessarily for the next expansion, but we wanted to make sure we allocated some time to depict that storyline.

When we actually finalized that we’re taking our adventurers to The First for Shadowbringers was around August of 2017.

The reason why that specific timing is because that’s when I had to sit down and think about what the game design is going to be for Shadowbringers 5.0 and I had to come up with a script, or text-based storyboard, for the opening trailer.

(link)

Naoki Yoshida: Before Stormblood we thought that there should have been a link between the Ascians and Garlemald, and we realized that everything made more sense if Garlemald was actually a creation of the Ascian.

We had this ancient character, emperor Solus, and we thought that using him worked in our favor. That’s the background of the inception of the Ascian as they are now.

Also, Emperor Varis has been experimenting on creating clones in Garlemald, and he is involved with Solus as well.

(link)

[Kaelwryn]

Thank you for the sources. But like i mentioned, I didn't mean when I said that 3.4 sets up shadowbringers, that it was intentionally written with that in mind. I was simply saying (story wise) it sets up for shadowbringers. I perhaps should've worded it that 3.4 is largely its own independent arc, in that its not really setting up for the next direct expansion.