Tearing down historical statues the European edition

[The Emperor]

Yeah, and I pointing out that the statues being torn down are of those that attacked the US. Iraq tore down statues of Sadam Hussein, while Russia tore down statues of Lenin and Stalin. That’s what happens when the former government loses power. That’s what’s happening with BLM... Lenin, Stalin and Hussein, were arguably as horrible to their people as confederates were to black people. So when confederates got kicked in the balls, these statues should have been torn down then... This is over due...

Comparing it to ISIS tearing down statues, instead of freed people tearing down statues of their oppressors, just shows misunderstanding of both.

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See... this is double think... let me show you... Do you think defense of statues can go full insane and demand more of them? You know, since you claim to not support both.......

And guess what, the iraqi who destroyed Saddam's statue is now regretting it

This was a brutal regime, but now, really, I regret hitting the statue. Those who came after are worse than Saddam Hussein and worse than Saddam Hussein's regime. That's why I regret it so much.

https://www.npr.org/2018/04/09/60076...ets-his-action

Meanwhile Stalin's approval ratings hit record high in Russia (2019 poll)
https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2019/...gh-poll-a65245

Destroying one's history is just immature and stupid. Slavery played an important part in USA becoming a powerful state in 19th century. It was wrong, but it was the building block upon the prosperity of this country developed. It was cruel, but we must not try to "whitewash" the history and culture in favour of current political agenda. We owe it to our grandchildren to preserve the history, however controversial it may be.

[Mayhem]

Destroying one's history is just immature and stupid. Slavery played an important part in USA becoming a powerful state in 19th century. It was wrong, but it was the building block upon the prosperity of this country developed. It was cruel, but we must not try to "whitewash" the history and culture in favour of current political agenda. We owe it to our grandchildren to preserve the history, however controversial it may be.

No, you destroy history by not teaching it.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/13/l...t-slavery.html

Not by removing statues that celebrate slavers and heroes of the confederacy. Actually having those statues is whitewashing history as it is a portrayal of respect or glory.

[Felya]

And guess what, the iraqi who destroyed Saddam's statue is now regretting it

Yeah, thank god that US doesn’t have people worse than confederates. Did you actually read what the guy said? WTF?

Meanwhile Stalin's approval ratings hit record high in Russia (2019 poll)

I know, I’ve been telling people about Putin white washing Stalin for years. How all of the mass graves being found in Russia are being blamed on the west and US, instead of the obvious. How Russian state media ran a high production, glorified miniseries that made Stalin look misunderstood, but great and strong leader. How Russian ministry of truth is now rewriting history, regardless of any statues.

Yeah, been telling this forum for years... thanks for another confirmation that my review of Russian speaking media is spot on.

Destroying one's history is just immature and stupid. Slavery played an important part in USA becoming a powerful state in 19th century. It was wrong, but it was the building block upon the prosperity of this country developed. It was cruel, but we must not try to "whitewash" the history and culture in favour of current political agenda. We owe it to our grandchildren to preserve the history, however controversial it may be.

What? No it didn’t... you don’t understand the dynamic between north and south, is further proof that these statues creat disinformation, instead of information. The same way Russian ministry of truth is glorifying Stalin, these statues are glorifying slavery.

Edit: If your country didn’t have a ministry of truth, you’d be posting on ok.ru...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Odnoklassniki

[pathora44]

You ever think that deciding who is the "traitor" in your eyes is no different then acknowledging what side won right?

Again the Confederacy fought for the right to own slaves and no matter how many Klansmen, alt-right suits, far right youtubers, or the trailer trash waving Confederate flags at Trump rallies tell you differently. The Confederacy fought to own slaves it is in their own words at the beginning of each of their state's Declaration of Secession and their own Vice-President said it in a speech. They are villains just like the Nazi Germany and to literally change history people built statues to honor Confederate leaders and founding Klansmen to build up a fake history of state rights and fighting Northern aggression.

[Egomaniac]

One more time for the people out in the cheap seats

Statues are not history.
Removing statues is not an attempt to erase history.

It's like a grand scale KonMari.

Those statues no longer "bring joy" to society as a whole.

[pathora44]

Yeah, thank god that US doesn’t have people worse than confederates. Did you actually read what the guy said? WTF?



I know, I’ve been telling people about Putin white washing Stalin for years. How all of the mass graves being found in Russia are being blamed on the west and US, instead of the obvious. How Russian state media ran a high production, glorified miniseries that made Stalin look misunderstood, but great and strong leader. How Russian ministry of truth is now rewriting history, regardless of any statues.

Yeah, been telling this forum for years... thanks for another confirmation that my review of Russian speaking media is spot on.



What? No it didn’t... you don’t understand the dynamic between north and south, is further proof that these statues creat disinformation, instead of information. The same way Russian ministry of truth is glorifying Stalin, these statues are glorifying slavery.

OMG it is like Vladimir Putin was a KGB officer during the USSR so he couldn't possibly want to wash away the evils of Stalin.

[Felya]

OMG it is like Vladimir Putin was a KGB officer during the USSR so he couldn't possibly want to wash away the evils of Stalin.

Well, Putin needs to blame US and the west somehow... and Stalin simply provides a lot... and I mean millions... of reasons to blame the west and US. It’s more of a convenience, than a meter of loyalty.

[pathora44]

Well, Putin needs to blame US and the west somehow... and Stalin simply provides a lot... and I mean millions... of reasons to blame the west and US. It’s more of a convenience, than a meter of loyalty.

That as well.

[The Emperor]

Yeah, thank god that US doesn’t have people worse than confederates. Did you actually read what the guy said? WTF?



I know, I’ve been telling people about Putin white washing Stalin for years. How all of the mass graves being found in Russia are being blamed on the west and US, instead of the obvious. How Russian state media ran a high production, glorified miniseries that made Stalin look misunderstood, but great and strong leader. How Russian ministry of truth is now rewriting history, regardless of any statues.

Yeah, been telling this forum for years... thanks for another confirmation that my review of Russian speaking media is spot on.



What? No it didn’t... you don’t understand the dynamic between north and south, is further proof that these statues creat disinformation, instead of information. The same way Russian ministry of truth is glorifying Stalin, these statues are glorifying slavery.

Edit: If your country didn’t have a ministry of truth, you’d be posting on ok.ru...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Odnoklassniki

How is portraying men that helped make this country great is desinformation?
What I see is a mob of angry poorly educated teenagers venting their frustration by destroying statues. Luckily, some states and cities are already moving to protect the heritage.

Also, I know how denigrating Russia seems to be your kink, only it has nothing to do with issues at hand.

[Laughingjack]

Again the Confederacy fought for the right to own slaves and no matter how many Klansmen, alt-right suits, far right youtubers, or the trailer trash waving Confederate flags at Trump rallies tell you differently. The Confederacy fought to own slaves it is in their own words at the beginning of each of their state's Declaration of Secession and their own Vice-President said it in a speech. They are villains just like the Nazi Germany and to literally change history people built statues to honor Confederate leaders and founding Klansmen to build up a fake history of state rights and fighting Northern aggression.

The only thing that makes them villains in your mind is that they lost. The fact you can not grapple with that concept makes discussing historical events with you of dubious merits.

[Lochton]

See... this is double think... let me show you... Do you think defense of statues can go full insane and demand more of them? You know, since you claim to not support both.......

Demanding more statues for no reason makes no sense for me. The ones there, are there because of a selection of reasons.

[Egomaniac]

The only thing that makes them villains in your mind is that they lost. The fact you can not grapple with that concept makes discussing historical events with you of dubious merits.

Owning slaves makes them villains. The fact that they lost just makes them losers.

[Monster Hunter]

America is a country founded on protest. Fuck patriotism. If your country is doing the wrong thing than you should protest.

america is a country founded on not paying what you owe, not meeting your responsibilities, and throwing a hissy fit when made to do so. something that still seems to define them.

try not to forget that the tax they so much reviled to cause the revolution was 1. to pay for the prior war that kept them from being french 2. was still much lower than the tax's levied against those in Britain.

https://www.vox.com/2015/7/2/8884885...lution-mistake

but then it wasnt just about tax was it. it was also about the Proclamation of 1763 which gave native Americans the right to the west of america. and it was also about the growing abolitionist sentiment that only a few decades later would lead to the end of slavery across the empire,

Anger at Dunmore's emancipation ran so deep that Thomas Jefferson included it as a grievance in a draft of the Declaration of Independence

the American war of independence was no noble act of defiance against an oppressor, it was the act of petulant children trying to avoid paying what they owed and wanting to continue barbaric practises, but i doubt a US school would bother to teach the truth when patriotism is in vouge.

[NED funded]

One more time for the people out in the cheap seats

Statues are not history.
Removing statues is not an attempt to erase history.

It's like a grand scale KonMari.

Those statues no longer "bring joy" to society as a whole.

I mean some of the statues that are being destroyed make no sense

Ulysses S Grant

Cervantes

They were white people so I guess they are evil is the only thing that can come to my mind rn as the reason they destroyed these statues

[Egomaniac]

america is a country founded on not paying what you owe, not meeting your responsibilities, and throwing a hissy fit when made to do so. something that still seems to define them.

try not to forget that the tax they so much reviled to cause the revolution was 1. to pay for the prior war that kept them from being french 2. was still much lower than the tax's levied against those in Britain.

https://www.vox.com/2015/7/2/8884885...lution-mistake

but then it wasnt just about tax was it. it was also about the Proclamation of 1763 which gave native Americans the right to the west of america. and it was also about the growing abolitionist sentiment that only a few decades later would lead to the end of slavery across the empire,

the American war of independence was no noble act of defiance against an oppressor, it was the act of petulant children trying to avoid paying what they owed and wanting to continue barbaric practises, but i doubt a US school would bother to teach the truth when patriotism is in vouge.

Both sides of that conflict have mud to sling at the other.

It's fair to say that the war of independence was not a completely noble act...but it's also fair to say that Britain weren't exactly the "good guys" either.

[Ivanstone]

america is a country founded on not paying what you owe, not meeting your responsibilities, and throwing a hissy fit when made to do so. something that still seems to define them.

Not every protest is righteous. Many Americans still view the War of Independence as a noble thing even if those views are misplaced. I also think that those same Americans also hold a hypocritical stance on protest. Arguably the Civil War was a protest (a shitty one) and the Lost Cause is also a protest (also a shitty one). Penn State students losing their shit because their pedophile enabling football coach was rightfully fired was also a shitty protest. They still have the right to protest.

[Laughingjack]

So what, you'd be fine with slavery if the confederacy won?

I imagine you would be too but I grasp how morality itself changes with the course of history a concept that people here struggle to grasp.

I believe it stems from a lack of self reflection.

[Laughingjack]

Owning slaves makes them villains. The fact that they lost just makes them losers.

No the fact the side that won saw slavery as evil and had its morality survive makes them the villains in your mind because you inherited that mindset.

You are nothing but a product of your past line yet you see no folly in trying to erase parts of it. It follows the same kind of logic that you only need a certain percent of your brain to live so why not cut away the bits you don't need?

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Newsflash buttercup, people all around the world were against slavery with or without the victory of the northern states.

You'd know this if you weren't so self-absorbed with your psuedo-intellectual "enlightened" drivel.

Not all over the world Africa loved it to the point the British navy had to utterly blockade their trade routes and dealt the most devastating blow to the slave trade in history. They likely would of never slowed chaining their own people without it.

[Yadryonych]

I mean some of the statues that are being destroyed make no sense

Ulysses S Grant

Cervantes

They were censored people so I guess they are evil is the only thing that can come to my mind rn as the reason they destroyed these statues

Be careful, this is considered a thought crime, just elaborate a reason to accuse them of being racist and cheer upon their statues removal

[Egomaniac]

I imagine you would be too but I grasp how morality itself changes with the course of history a concept that people here struggle to grasp.

I believe it stems from a lack of self reflection.

Except even the morality of the time was against the owning of slaves.
It's kind of the reason they were told to knock that shit off.