How do you justify Shalandis Isle?

[Clone]

The only justification required for spying is spying.

[formerShandalay]

Too bad that a write confirmed it to be a fuckup on their part.

Yea, I know. So what, at that time Malfurion wasn't involved in anything, because he was being poisoned by Fandral, so it's kind of a moot point, or rather, it's pointing towards Fandral as being the douche behind it all even more.

[Ardenaso]

It being Fandral is of course only the easiest explanation, especially with Malfurion saying he doesn't know about any intrustions into bloodelven land lately.

Although I wouldn't put it past a lot of Nightelves agreeing with Fandral and thinking it neccessary to spy on the Bloodelves. Don't know if Tyrande would have to be in on it neccessarily, because lots of others may have agreed with Fandral and gone behind her back, on the other hand she hasn't always been the most diplomatic type and may have simply gone along with it too. Malfurion wasn't really around at the time anyway, so he may simply have missed it and noone told him later on.

Yea, I know. So what, at that time Malfurion wasn't involved in anything, because he was being poisoned by Fandral, so it's kind of a moot point, or rather, it's pointing towards Fandral as being the douche behind it all even more.

I heard the devs themselves said that they simply forgot it and I think they apologized for it

[Tanaria]

Are not the blood elves in Azuremyst the saboteurs who caused the crash of the Exodar? I am sure there was an explanation to their presence.
Then it would not matter when it happens, because they are KT loyalists anyway.

Wasn't the Exodar broken apart across the two isles when it crashed?
If so, it doesn't matter. The Bandits and the Sunhawk Agents were all in league with Kael and the Legion.

But my point is - if that happened first, then as far as the Alliance knows (given the information that they know at the time), it could be that Silvermoon and Co. are all in on this plan.
Obviously, we know they aren't, but the Alliance and the Draenei don't know this and that point in time.

[Tharivor]

But the first incidents in the Blood Elf start zone is dealing with wildlife that's gone nuts. Then wretched, then a dwarf that's supposed to be an ambassador for the alliance for Blood Elves rejoining but was found out to be a spy leading the sentinels (who never worked for Fandral and were ALWAYS under Tyrande so the whole Fandral sent them from other posters is just head in the sand) that attacked one of the two defence sanctums which were the blood elves only defence against the scourge.

It's not until later you run into any actual Vanilla horde races showing that really the alliance was first choice, horde after the betrayal.

Not really- Ghostlands shows the Blood Elves were already working closely with the Forsaken and had even refounded Tranquillien together. That alone pretty much rules out being able to join the Alliance. Entertaining the Ironforge Ambassador seems more of an attempt to maintain some semblance of neutrality, and should be balanced with the fact that the Horde Ambassadors are being happily shown around Silvermoon at the same time.

Would be no problem if the writers were coherent about it. But making Belfs a playable race killed this opportunity. So the characterization of Belfs being opportunists (or making decisions based on current politics as you call it) can't be uphold anymore. If it were that way, then the Belfs would have left the Horde the minute Garrosh took over (because they were discriminated upon). So the reasoning that Belfs make decisions on practical advantage lacks foundation, meaning that using it to retroactively explain the Belfs decisions in the past is a pretty weak argument.

But that is exactly what nearly happens- Lorthemar was in negotiations with Varian to re-join the Alliance once it became clear the Horde was being led by a madman. Trying to leave any earlier than that wouldn't have made much sense since the Alliance was initially on the backfoot and there are no prizes for choosing the losing side, especially with a newly resurgent Sylvanas to your south.
This is really the whole point narrative-wise of the Purge of Dalaran- to give the Blood Elves a reason not to defect from the Horde which otherwise they would have done in MoP. Remember that even in WotLK the Blood Elves had to be forced to join the Horde armies in Northrend.

By BfA however I believe the story is supposed to be that having been fighting alongside them for so long, Lorethemar now feels a genuine sense of comradarie with the rest of the Horde. This fits into the general move of the Blood Elves away from their ruthless and aloof origins- I'm not sure I like that direction, but you can't argue that the shift hasn't been shown in game.

[formerShandalay]

I heard the devs themselves said that they simply forgot it and I think they apologized for it

Yes, that's what I was answering to in the second post you quoted. It was the author of A Good War, not a dev.

But still, Malfurion wasn't around at that time, that's simply the way it was. He was being poisoned in the dream by Fandral.
Also, the OP asked for a lore explanation and Fandral going behind everyone's back is one possible explanation and not much of a stretch, as he did that a lot and had the means.

[Kallisto]

W
Very simple.

New allies night elves had warned the alliance about the blood elves, knowing the history and witnessing them linking with Illidan.

Are they becoming reckless again? Rather than give up or just assume, the alliance decides to investigate, the use the diplomatic mission from Ironforge to sneak night elf party with back up stealthing into Shalandris isles to find out whether this is true.

This is why the night elves are scrying. Looking for signs of reckless magical use, fel magical corruption or Legion activity, to determine if the blood elves can still be trusted and find out exactly what is going on since TFT events.

Notice the night elves are souing and scrying. An invasion force is unrealistic, so is assuming they are scouting to launch a future invasion - the blood elves arent alliancs enemies at this point.

The major issue here is the alliance is trying to determine whether these guys are still trustworthy...these guys take it the worst possible way and use it to prove to the horde they had already approached in secret, that they are hardcore enough to kill former allies and be an enemy to them

Yes let's take an organisation that only a few years ago tried to exterminate your prince and race (Garithos was the dejure and defacto alliance leader in TFT as highest-ranking lord of Lordaeron known to be living.)

Fast forward thinking of rejoining and finding out the ambassador the alliance sent was to negotiate your re-admittance into the alliance turns out to be leading a force of sentinels that attacked one of the two sanctums that are the only things stopping the scourge from wiping out the rest of you.

Not treating this force as a genocidal hostile force isn't the worst possible way to take it. It's the ONLY possible way to take it. The alliance has twice in 5 years basically stated they want you dead. They'll do what it takes to make you dead, even pretending to be your friend. There's no other pragmatic way of thinking when it comes down to how the alliance are acting.

[ravenmoon]

Yes let's take an organisation that only a few years ago tried to exterminate your prince and race (Garithos was the dejure and defacto alliance leader in TFT as highest-ranking lord of Lordaeron known to be living.)

Fast forward thinking of rejoining and finding out the ambassador the alliance sent was to negotiate your re-admittance into the alliance turns out to be leading a force of sentinels that attacked one of the two sanctums that are the only things stopping the scourge from wiping out the rest of you.

Not treating this force as a genocidal hostile force isn't the worst possible way to take it. It's the ONLY possible way to take it. The alliance has twice in 5 years basically stated they want you dead. They'll do what it takes to make you dead, even pretending to be your friend. There's no other pragmatic way of thinking when it comes down to how the alliance are acting.

From an alliance point of view, after Garithis and Illidan with a world fully aware of the Legion now, fel corruption, Legion associations, are worrying enough to warrant investigation..

Blood elves ceasing the opportunity it to convince ce the selves the horde is the right way and prove their capability execute and slaughter the spies. Not detain, not interrogate, horde style slaughter, night elf style judge, jury and executioner..this was blizzard telling us "these AREN'T HIGH ELVES"

[Tanaria]

Yes let's take an organisation that only a few years ago tried to exterminate your prince and race (Garithos was the dejure and defacto alliance leader in TFT as highest-ranking lord of Lordaeron known to be living.)

Fast forward thinking of rejoining and finding out the ambassador the alliance sent was to negotiate your re-admittance into the alliance turns out to be leading a force of sentinels that attacked one of the two sanctums that are the only things stopping the scourge from wiping out the rest of you.

Not treating this force as a genocidal hostile force isn't the worst possible way to take it. It's the ONLY possible way to take it. The alliance has twice in 5 years basically stated they want you dead. They'll do what it takes to make you dead, even pretending to be your friend. There's no other pragmatic way of thinking when it comes down to how the alliance are acting.

Don't pay him any mind.

He's a Night Elf obsessor, who thinks it's ok to spy, invade and attack residents of a land.

Even willing to sabotage the Sanctums that is the only magical line of defense, keeping the Scourge at bay - as well as the remaining Farstriders.

[Kralljin]

Yea, I know. So what, at that time Malfurion wasn't involved in anything, because he was being poisoned by Fandral, so it's kind of a moot point, or rather, it's pointing towards Fandral as being the douche behind it all even more.

The point is that this entire undertaking was so random that even the devs forgot about it.

You can argue over bendover backwards explanations, but that's the real reason.

[LordVargK]

By BfA however I believe the story is supposed to be that having been fighting alongside them for so long, Lorethemar now feels a genuine sense of comradarie with the rest of the Horde. This fits into the general move of the Blood Elves away from their ruthless and aloof origins- I'm not sure I like that direction, but you can't argue that the shift hasn't been shown in game.

Conversly this change of heart brings them closer to the Alliances's ideology, which is more modest than the Horde's. But that's story to come. We'll see what happens after Shadowlands.

[bowlink]

well this is what happens when you write alliance lore as an afterthought. it turns out inconsistant and hated by most. also i resently watched video how belf paladins used to get their thallasian charger. you basicly dececrate the last chapel in stratholm, soley for the reason of saying their paladins are superior to the alliance ones. completely disregarding that are literally sucking the power from an enslaved naruu.

people forget that bloodelves were portrayed as self serving dickheads back in TBC. and if sylvanas hadn't played with here food back in WC3 and had just marched the whole thalassian army up to arthas and fought him in open battle. silvermoon city might not have a giant scar running through it and she might not have been a banshee.

plus the fact that the person who wrote this part of eversong woods lore not working for activisionblizzard anymore is a valid point

[formerShandalay]

The point is that this entire undertaking was so random that even the devs forgot about it.

You can argue over bendover backwards explanations, but that's the real reason.

Well, yea. That's true, I guess^^. But still, a lore explanation is what the thread is about and it's not like there isn't stuff to at least point to as a possibility of one.

[Tanaria]

https://wow.gamepedia.com/Dame_Auriferous

This is the lore character who is mainly active in this story.

I'd just suggest reading the quest text, which then gives a basic clue as to what is going on.

[Syegfryed]

it was just one dwarf, and the spies would have had a hand to stop whatever his nily wily actions would be

But the dwarf had high rank in the whole thing.... its to show this isn't an "night elf vendetta" but an alliance operation

also, at least they could've fleshed out whatever the storyline context, something like Maiev's loyalists who want to take vengeance on Kael and his Blood Elves for being tattletales to Malfurion, or Fandral loyalists who share his ideals and are also against Tyrande

Again, this isn't a important plot point of the night elves who have to show their internal affair and a vendetta against other elves, this isn't important, is an alliance operation against an enemy and they had to obey liking or not because they belong to that faction.

you guys are reading TOO MUCH, when not even blizzard is

[Jastall]

Blizzard knew that "One Lordaeronian commander was racist towards us" was a shaky foundation to have a group of elves turn their back on an Alliance that A, was ideologically aligned with them and B' contained an entirely -different- human kingdom -not- affiliated with said racist commander.

So they had to manufacture some conflict involving a group of Night Elven spies and an uncharacteristically spiteful dwarven "Ambassador" because obviously the elves that had just gotten spanked by Arthas were up to no good..

Indeed. BEs going Horde was a decision driven by gameplay and demographics only, lore had absolutely nothing to do with it, because if the elves are spiteful enough to shun the Alliance because of Garithos, they should be spiteful enough to shun the Horde because of Orcs and Trolls. But nope, them Chinese horde players needed a race their girlfriends could play, so instead the proud kingdom of Quel'thalas made itself willing slaves to a bunch of savages in tents led by an absolute dictator who worships the guys who tried to invade their realm barely 20 years ago.

[Tharivor]

Conversly this change of heart brings them closer to the Alliances's ideology, which is more modest than the Horde's. But that's story to come. We'll see what happens after Shadowlands.

There is a certain irony in the fact that the same new values that bring them closer to the Alliance's ideology, are also the same values which now bind them to the Horde. I doubt there will be much shift though- the Devs seem set on keeping the Blood Elves down the path of moral righteousness, however silly, so reverting them back to their opportunistic past and having them betray the Horde is unlikely. Personally I preferred them in their BC incarnation but thats just me.

[lvbuckeye]

Blizzard is garbage, and I can't believe any of you are still investing your time, money, and emotions in this complety garbage, sellout, money grubbing company.

Look up Sunken Cost Fallacy. You're all psychological slaves with Stockholm Syndrome.

Blizz DOESN'T GIVE A FUCK ABOUT YOU. They only give a fuck about their money.

Sent from my SM-G950U1 using Tapatalk

[Kemsa]

I mean... you still wanna spy a potential "ally" or "enemy" Because of "knowledge" and "intel" . So Shalandis Isle could pass as "just spying" until the "Horde Player" discovers it.

Its not the worst situation, if you want to talk about "injustify situations" lets talk about that Honor of Garrosh at stonetalon and then bombing Theramore.

:>)

[Soon-TM]

Sorry, I thought this was a legitimate lore discussion thread. But it's just a Blizzard bashing circlejerk. I'll show myself out.

In other words, "I have no solid arguments to oppose the bashing, so I'd better make myself scarce in order to save face". Solid strategy, bro.

More on topic, the easiest explanation for Shalandis Isle would be Fandral's loyalists. But there was a dwarf as well over there, so it looks like the thing went beyond NEs.

- - - Updated - - -

Yes let's take an organisation that only a few years ago tried to exterminate your prince and race (Garithos was the dejure and defacto alliance leader in TFT as highest-ranking lord of Lordaeron known to be living.)

Fast forward thinking of rejoining and finding out the ambassador the alliance sent was to negotiate your re-admittance into the alliance turns out to be leading a force of sentinels that attacked one of the two sanctums that are the only things stopping the scourge from wiping out the rest of you.

Not treating this force as a genocidal hostile force isn't the worst possible way to take it. It's the ONLY possible way to take it. The alliance has twice in 5 years basically stated they want you dead. They'll do what it takes to make you dead, even pretending to be your friend. There's no other pragmatic way of thinking when it comes down to how the alliance are acting.

Ah, the good ol' times when Alliance doing shady !@#$ had actual consequences... Still, more info about the whole issue would have been most appreciated.