Night Elves, Magic & the Arcane - Common Misconceptions & Things You Didn't Consider

[Tanaria]

I'll take that.

Some night elves on the Broken Isles, like the Moon Guard, did pose an interest in speaking with the Blood Elven Magi and visiting Silvermoon's library.

[Beloren]

I'll take that.

Some night elves on the Broken Isles, like the Moon Guard, did pose an interest in speaking with the Blood Elven Magi and visiting Silvermoon's library.

It makes the most sense. - alliance can't complain about horde getting night elves, because they already did via the nightborne, and if it is model concerns, well the High elves are saying hi(gh) .

It does keep the Broken Isles night elven, it does keep a strong night elven arcane identity via the Moonguard, Farondis and it makes the Nightborne identifiable with the Night elves.

It's night elven, just not on the alliance. IF you get high elves, don't expect the horde not to get the kaldorei too.

[ravenmoon]

I'll take that.

Some night elves on the Broken Isles, like the Moon Guard, did pose an interest in speaking with the Blood Elven Magi and visiting Silvermoon's library.

Ofc you do, you want everything, all the coolest aspects of the Night elves.

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It makes the most sense. - alliance can't complain about horde getting night elves, because they already did via the nightborne, and if it is model concerns, well the High elves are saying hi(gh) .

It does keep the Broken Isles night elven, it does keep a strong night elven arcane identity via the Moonguard, Farondis and it makes the Nightborne identifiable with the Night elves.

It's night elven, just not on the alliance. IF you get high elves, don't expect the horde not to get the kaldorei too.

Ehll no, the Nightborne was bad enough, now you want the horde to just take the rest - only to avoid forum arguments. They shoudl develop Trolls, Orcs, Goblins, Tauren for the horde, not Night elves and High elves - those are alliance races - fine if the horde can share them in the blood elves and Nightborne, but they should be movin gaway from focusing on them.

[Tanaria]

Ofc you do, you want everything, all the coolest aspects of the Night elves.

Perhaps if night elves stopped driving these so called "coolest aspects" away, then we wouldn't be in this situation now.

[Beloren]

Ofc you do, you want everything, all the coolest aspects of the Night elves.

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Ehll no, the Nightborne was bad enough, now you want the horde to just take the rest - only to avoid forum arguments. They shoudl develop Trolls, Orcs, Goblins, Tauren for the horde, not Night elves and High elves - those are alliance races - fine if the horde can share them in the blood elves and Nightborne, but they should be movin gaway from focusing on them.

You're being bullish and selfish - you want everything. The horde elves are popular there, they can't just leave them. They could take @Mace's suggestion and sort of develop the elves separately as their own ting when it comes to elf areas and lore.

But no elf development on the horde? That doesn't make sense. What I will be fine with is them developing your Highborne a bit more, give you a city you like, but you're going to be better off if the alliance night elves are mainly focusing on the Forest side of the Night elves - and background developing the Highborne and cities - i.e. they show activity on the horde, so when everyone sees the Highborne on the alliance, they know the type and character from what they've seen on the horde. leaving them to focus more intelligently.

[ravenmoon]

Perhaps if night elves stopped driving these so called "coolest aspects" away, then we wouldn't be in this situation now.

You mean the horde fans whining for night elf stuff, and the senior dev team that all play horde and are biased as fuck towards the horde? And you think it's the alliance fault for the dev team pushing them horde?

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You're being bullish and selfish - you want everything. The horde elves are popular there, they can't just leave them. They could take @Mace's suggestion and sort of develop the elves separately as their own ting when it comes to elf areas and lore.

But no elf development on the horde? That doesn't make sense. What I will be fine with is them developing your Highborne a bit more, give you a city you like, but you're going to be better off if the alliance night elves are mainly focusing on the Forest side of the Night elves - and background developing the Highborne and cities - i.e. they show activity on the horde, so when everyone sees the Highborne on the alliance, they know the type and character from what they've seen on the horde. leaving them to focus more intelligently.

That's just showing alliance lame, this is night elf heritage, all of it, if they do this they're making the night elves full 100% forest elves, and giving their arcane heritage to the horde, it will leave them boring.

I want to see them showing how amazing the shen'dralar are, i want them showing night elf mages doing powerful things alongside priests and druids. I don't want to see the best bits of the night elves on the horde.

[Tanaria]

No horde fans were demanding the night elf stuff. Blizzard just created a story that mirrored the blood elven story and blood elf fans took notice of that.

You just can't handle the developers giving anything to the horde and also caring about the horde elven playerbase.

[Beloren]

You mean the horde fans whining for night elf stuff, and the senior dev team that all play horde and are biased as fuck towards the horde? And you think it's the alliance fault for the dev team pushing them horde?

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That's just showing alliance lame, this is night elf heritage, all of it, if they do this they're making the night elves full 100% forest elves, and giving their arcane heritage to the horde, it will leave them boring.

I want to see them showing how amazing the shen'dralar are, i want them showing night elf mages doing powerful things alongside priests and druids. I don't want to see the best bits of the night elves on the horde.

This is why I say selfish - because the night elve as a race aren't losing anything if this part is shown on the horde, it's still night elven, only the alliance is not showing it, that's the only difference, none of this stops the Nightborne, Moonguard, Farondis etc from being Night elven, they're just not alliance night elves.

and the alliance Highborne mastery is shown by default via the new cities - which obviously they helped built, they'd be as gorgeous as Suramar/Zin'Azsahri, but with a lot more nature and a more mixed society. They dont need to be showing alliance night elves doing powerful arcane stuff, for people to know the night elves can, it works just as well using horde night elves. Besides, a few Nelf Npc mages always showing up with the other night elf forces is all you need.

Listen to what the fans are saying, they don't want blizzard to spend too much time showing Highborne stuff on the Night elves because they haven't been showing the cool forest stuff most people fell in love with the night elves for in the first place. You and the 5% who read the books may have fell in love with the arcane civilisation and lore, but most people who like night elves fell in love with the walking trees, and forests, and the female babes on tigers in skimpy outfits and bows in their hands.

No one begrudges night elves having other stuff like Dhs and Highborne, but blizzard didn't weave this thing in soon enough, so if they start focusing a lot on that stuff INSTEAD of the regular stuff, the fans will feel the Night elves don't feel like "night elves anymore". No matter how much you scream that the arcane stuff is night elven - you would be 100% right but it wouldn't matter, because they haven't been reading books or seeing it.

Face it, for every Highborne stuff they show, they have to show druid and priest stuff too. Everyone loved Suramar, it seemed night elven, but face it, the minute it went horde it felt more blood elven than night elven to most fans, they don't associate the arcane with the night elves. And I know you're trying to shift the perception to a more accurate one because you've rad the books and the lore, but give it a rest buddy, that is the devs job.

They chose to develop most of the night elves in books rather than in game, it's their issue to fix and show the night elves as more rounded, not yours.

and let's be frank, making the Broken Isles Night elves horde, does the trick just as effectively as doing so on the alliance Highborne BUT it makes a lot more sense to do it this way. It also opens the door for peaceful interaction down the line as the broken isle night elves don't hate nor are fighting the Kalimdor ones. (well unless blizzard changes that.

[ravenmoon]

No horde fans were demanding the night elf stuff. Blizzard just created a story that mirrored the blood elven story and blood elf fans took notice of that.

You just can't handle the developers giving anything to the horde and also caring about the horde elven playerbase.

I can handle i, I just have a problem with the developers taking all my fave races to the enemy faction and giving them the best versions of those races - High elves first, now night elves - while continuing to jus bloat the horde with the best stuff, and then write them as dicks. Seriously why are the jerks getting all the best stuff, meanwhile they write the good guys as losers who lose everything.. and they wonder why people think their story it sucks.

how can you write a race to lose so much, suffer so bravely , sacrifice so heroically, and literally stay in the stone age exclusively meanwhile the best of their golden age is on the horde?

Now while I get that the night elven forest life is not worse or terrible, it's a type of life a night elf druid finds far more rich and rewarding than the hustle and bustle of a city, still, as players, we find cities and civilization cool as well as magical forests. You tease us with tales of a wondrous age and civilization, and finally when you show it, you don't give it to the fans who've been waiting 20 years for it - total DICK move.

Then when those fans start asking for it in kind on their side, people like you tell them to stuff it, they can't have it because it's horde and you expect them to like it and be okay with it?

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This is why I say selfish - because the night elve as a race aren't losing anything if this part is shown on the horde, it's still night elven, only the alliance is not showing it, that's the only difference, none of this stops the Nightborne, Moonguard, Farondis etc from being Night elven, they're just not alliance night elves.

and the alliance Highborne mastery is shown by default via the new cities - which obviously they helped built, they'd be as gorgeous as Suramar/Zin'Azsahri, but with a lot more nature and a more mixed society. They dont need to be showing alliance night elves doing powerful arcane stuff, for people to know the night elves can, it works just as well using horde night elves. Besides, a few Nelf Npc mages always showing up with the other night elf forces is all you need.

Listen to what the fans are saying, they don't want blizzard to spend too much time showing Highborne stuff on the Night elves because they haven't been showing the cool forest stuff most people fell in love with the night elves for in the first place. You and the 5% who read the books may have fell in love with the arcane civilisation and lore, but most people who like night elves fell in love with the walking trees, and forests, and the female babes on tigers in skimpy outfits and bows in their hands.

No one begrudges night elves having other stuff like Dhs and Highborne, but blizzard didn't weave this thing in soon enough, so if they start focusing a lot on that stuff INSTEAD of the regular stuff, the fans will feel the Night elves don't feel like "night elves anymore". No matter how much you scream that the arcane stuff is night elven - you would be 100% right but it wouldn't matter, because they haven't been reading books or seeing it.

Face it, for every Highborne stuff they show, they have to show druid and priest stuff too. Everyone loved Suramar, it seemed night elven, but face it, the minute it went horde it felt more blood elven than night elven to most fans, they don't associate the arcane with the night elves. And I know you're trying to shift the perception to a more accurate one because you've rad the books and the lore, but give it a rest buddy, that is the devs job.

They chose to develop most of the night elves in books rather than in game, it's their issue to fix and show the night elves as more rounded, not yours.

and let's be frank, making the Broken Isles Night elves horde, does the trick just as effectively as doing so on the alliance Highborne BUT it makes a lot more sense to do it this way. It also opens the door for peaceful interaction down the line as the broken isle night elves don't hate nor are fighting the Kalimdor ones. (well unless blizzard changes that.

You have it all figured out, but what makes you think alliance fans will be happy wtih the horde shown the better stuff, and all the high magic of the night elves too instead of them?

[Tanaria]

Even if you read the books, what is in transcription does not compete with what we see in-game.

The advancements we've seen the Blood Elves do with their abilities with magic has been thorough and in-game. Many of their skills even bested the Nightborne Magisters, during the liberation of Suramar. This makes sense because we the player, have been along for that journey.

We can get a taste of how the ancient Highborne used to operate, but it's only a taste...unless we have another "going back in time...sort of..." expansion, where we go to the Kaldorei Empire, but that's unlikely to happen since the disaster that was WoD, before the word "go."

We haven't been on any journey with night elf mages. They just...appeared...and not touched again.
Blizzard created a Highborne/Night Elf Apprentices vs Blood Elves and the former lost very badly, but then Blizzard moved to a more High Elf/Human vs Blood Elf

[Beloren]

You have it all figured out, but what makes you think alliance fans will be happy wtih the horde shown the better stuff, and all the high magic of the night elves too instead of them?

You overestimate the fans, they wont care half as much. Suramar is 100% Night elven you have written, I agree, yet the horde is very happy having it on there, and alliance players haven't quit - just you and your friends are sour about it.

You've made 1000 essays, trying to show this side of the night elves, your issue is most people are male - men are visual, video game payers much prefer to see than read - reading text is like doing homework - it's a grind, and they'll do it for money, not for your obsession. YOU ARE WASTING TIME.

Let the developers show their vision, if they put most of it for night elves in books so only 5% know, then that's their choice, let them show the fans it's different visually. if Suramar was supposed to go alliance for that reason but went horde, let them correct it, let them build you a new city or put you in Suramar, you talking about it and arguing about isn't going to make it happen any sooner, and you're not winning fans over with essays they don't read. = YOU ARE WASTING YOUR TIME.

Enjoy the ride, whatever will be will be. If night elves also get established on the horde side, and you like the arcane stuff there more, switch to the horde, if the horde races behaviour is what's putting you off, many horde fans are agreeing with you, put your energy into fighting for them changing that instead. Nightborne and broken isle night elves have done some very good things - you yourself said you thought Thalyssra was amazing - well argue for the horde then.

tell blizzard that Thalyssra should be standing up for even the night elves, (without joining them) taking initiatives like she did against the Legion, standing for what's right even if her superiors get angry or don't like it. "i'm with the horde, but i'm a night elf too "Nelf Lives Matter" - and she helps them - Mace's essays were good.

You should be focusing your effort there, they are far more likely to make the horde decent, and thus you would like them more because they have the assets you value more highly on them. Rather than whining like a lil bitch for them to give you back your stuff (which isn't really your stuff,) it's night elf stuff, and the alliance don't own the all the night elves

[Stelio Kontos]

I just wish we could launch all the elves, purple, pink, and everything in between, into space on a goblin rocket and be done with elf fanboys saying why their particular favorite color of elf is really cooler and better than all the rest and deserves all the things.

You're all insufferable, so stop arguing.

[Strippling]

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Look, I'm clearly not as passionate about night elves as you are, and I appreciate your passion. All I'm saying is that the way night elves are portrayed to us as players in WoW, is that they're a nature loving people who have a ton more focus on nature than they do arcane. They are also portrayed to us as a people who have a disdain for "lavish, arcane living" or for their highborne kin. They show no interest in returning to Suramar or any interest in that way of life. Their leaders heavily revere nature and have openly expressed their disdain for "highbornes".

The way they are portrayed to us in game in general does not match a highborne type culture. So like I said, them having a highborne-esque city would be at odds with how they are portrayed in game. I'm not denying they have highborne components within their society, I'm just saying that this component is objectively a very small component and can easily be proven to be dwarfed by their naturistic component. Hence why a highborne type city wouldn't make sense for them (I'm talking a city like Suramar or Zin'Azshari).

I know that, but there was bias in that. The high elves are different from the blood elves, not racially, but factionally - they follow the original high elf values, and they've been kicked out of Quel'thalas including Silvermoon by the blood elves.

Again, the only high elves who were actually kicked out of Silvermoon were the Quelithian elves.. and they are all dead or withered now.

Any remaining alliance aligned high elf are self imposed exiles from Silvermoon because they chose to abandon their people (and Silvermoon) in order to stay with humans. They were not kicked out, they abandoned their people. They have no right or claim to Silvermoon. Human wash ups is where they will remain.

[Mace]

While I will admit blizzard can equally give the night elves of the alliance the broken isles.. (if they wanted to)

and that many fans will appreciate it going night elf, I think if fans had to choose, more would choose Kalimdor, because unfortunately for you, more play WC3 and level 1-20 than they have read long ass books on night elves. Most aren't connected to the history you hardcore fans are, so they don't care as much for Broken Isles where only Legion events happened (as far as they are aware). Also once the Nightborne went horde, the horde fans aren't giving that up, and you may not have noticed, but most alliance fans also stopped getting angry over it or wanting it. But I'm sure you don't care - afterall, you are thinking "if the horde can invade night elf lands in Kalimdor so many times and claim large chunks, the alliance can just as easily for a change take some horde lands" - you may even think that the horde will gladly accept such a move because it would finally cast an alliance race in a bit of a villain light (no matter how justified their reasons are to alliance fans, the horde will view them as the villains here.) - That could happen.

I know you would prefer the peace route, but your pipe dream has the biggest obstacle of all.. BLIZZARD GODS OF WARCRAFT. They're not interested in doing anything new that's peace/harmony related between the two factions, they are FAR MORE likely to ignore night elves going to the broken isles, or do war by causing the night elves to kick out the Nightborne or lose trying, than do the peace option - no matter how novel and noble @ravenmoon makes it sound.

My Proposal
Nightborne take over the Broken Isles alongside Broken Isle Night elves who ally with them... You get a night elf nation on the broken isles, that is led from Suramar with nightboren and night elf alike - Thalyssra, Prince Farondis, Lothrius, Valewalker Farodin, Rensar Greathoof, Ly'leth Lunastre, Valtrois and all the islands night elves joining them, and sort of like how you had high elves on the alliance but were never playable, these night elves are on the horde but aren't playable. furthermore the night elves don't go fighting horde wars, they're just on the island allied with the Nightborne, it's the Nightborne who fight the horde battles. This way you get a night elf kingdom, on the broken isles, just not the alliance one. They could even have the Wardens have a horde half and alliance half.

The alliance night elves, are a different lot, they are in Kalimdor and mostly wood elf types with some Highborne and DHs, they get their new city, 1 or 2, but they have like a 60-70% population that's forest based, cos this is what they are more famous for.

N.B. They are not the only night elves, they have Highborne, and the Suramar Kingdom also has arcane wielding night elves like the Farondis and the Moonguard - so everyone will know for sure that yes night elves aren't just forest elves, but the alliance night elves are mainly forest elves. And niche fans like you will still have your Highborne, and your city, but that aspect would be limited to the 1 or 2 urban centres, but the vast majority is WC3.


There you go, 2 night elf Kingdoms, one in Kalimdor, and one in Suramar. One alliance, one horde. Night elves do get the Broken shore, just not the night elves you hoped for.

Night Elf Kalimdor
You could end up really liking it. Night elves urbanise Darkshore - Mathystra, Bashal'aran and Ameth'aran rebuilt - but the rest is forest land as they restore Ashenvale and Felwood, Stonetalon too.

They get their Highborne city too in Eldre'thalas that spills into Desolace too, and make the rest of Feralas forest. Massive Temple of Elune in Desolace, followed by regenerated forest. So like 90% is forest. However, most of the night elves are WC3 kinds.

Yes, Mathystra will look like a smaller Zin'Azshari with lots of flowers and gardens, Bashal'aran will be a mixed architecture city blending forest dwellings with pre-sundering ones, Ameth'aran will be like a pristine Tel'anor. Highborne town. Eldre'thalas will be refurbished- Highborne city - and that's it for the Highborne and City/temple.

Ashenvale is all Forest, maybe 1 temple in it. Felwood all forest, mostly healed. Stonetalon, all forest too. Lots of druids, Cenarions (dryads and Keepers), furbolgs, Treant people, worgen, huntresses etc - that's mainly the alliance night elves - note I said alliance night elves not ALL Night elves.

Alliance Night Elves: 80% Druid/Priest, 15% Highborne, 5% Illidari
Horde Night Kingdom of Suramar: 80% Highborne, 20% druid/priest - nightborne live in Suramar city, but some Night elves too from the other region as it is the capital


WIN- WIN- WIN - we all win. If blizzard put normal kaldorei on the horde, it would solve all these problems, and the Borken Isles makes sense - then they can build the Highborne image strongly on the horde since it already has Suramar, and the alliance highborne will benefit, because everyone will know it's highborne.

This suggestion originally came from me, but the effort here is not for night elf equality across the factions. The night elves are an alliance race predominantly (Nightborne are an allied race only). The faction on the alliance is the main kaldorei group and I strongly feel it should show all the aspects of the Night elves and either be the best at it or as good as any other elven group that has something from the Night elves.

This includes the arcane, nature, priesthood, night elf civilization, night elf forest culture, druidism. No one should do Highborne better than the actual Highborne, The Nightborne can do it the same, not better, the blood elves who are hearkening back to that ancient heritage can do it similarly but not better, this comes from the night elves.

the faction on the alliance should be the standard bearers, leading in innovation, character, and morals. They have both the right and the basis for it, with druidism and Elunism and the arcane, they have balance, harmony and experience the blood elves don't have (being a devolution elf race and humanised), a wholeness and healthiness the Nightborne don't have (being predominantly arcane without the clear benefits spiritual discipline and moral rectitude from a priesthood or the strength of balance and harmony). All have the wisdom from the past mistake, but non more poignant and none having carried the burden longer than the kaldorei.

The lore has shown them paying the price in full above every other elven group, endured the longest,, fought the hardest - they are the ones that should pull through the most on all things Elven.

The Thalassians show an elven side that is influenced by humanity, and has a light/void dynamic to them. But they lack the nature magic prowress part, and they don't do arcane as heavily as the Highborne have, and they either specialise in light(blood/high elf) or void (void elf) where the Elune priesthood is not only more balanced, but has the arcane dimension to them.

The Nightborne - have only the Highborne portion from the night elves, it will be weaker than the Highborne. Magic wise in terms of skill and knowledge, it's pretty much on par, but the Highborne have a strong balancing factor and accountability via the druids and the priests - this balance coupled with their ability and drive should yield better, more stable results long run. The Nightborne do explore what night elven Highborne would be like mixing with blood elves, and have a chronomancy speciality unique to them, but that is a weak identifier .

The Night elves, and the ones on the alliance, should be the standard bearers for the race. I'm fine with other groups joining the horde Nightborne, but they must not replace, or outshine the alliance aligned kaldorei - they can match their strengths with them (like Nightborne arcana matching Darnassian Highborne), but the other aspects of the night elves should win through.

the Darnassian Kaldorei should be the strong and leading elven group, just like the Zandalari would be for trolls, doesn't stop the Darkspear from being special and unique, but they're not the power house the Zandalari are, so it should be with the Darnassians. You don't out Elf the kaldorei, it doesn't get more "elfy" than the Kaldorei, there is none more elven. You don't out elf the originals.

And this is how it should be. Elves are not native to the horde even though two groups are there, and while I am onboard with the Blood elves dominating the Thalassian scene over the void/high elves, and for their size and fame doing quite well and quite special, they are not the original and they should not out elf the Night elf.

So blizzard should hurry up and restore all. Eventually I would like Night elves to dominate their 16 zones, with their sub-races (including Nightborne) in their parent zones. It shouldn't be a surprise to see night elves walking Suramar streets, whether they Arcan'dor healed Nightborne looking more like the original or other kaldorei visiting, migrated to Suramar or otherwise. Suramar I'm fin with being the Nightborne capital, even if some night elves live there, just like any Naga sub-race should have Zin'Azsahri- Nazjatar, and worgen night elves should have Val'Sharah.

A new night elf grand capital should be on Hyjal. It's the best location if you're going to build fully for the night elvs - but if you're not, it's the broken isles. Hyjal has the Well of Eternity, the Tree, the wild gods. Build a great city, and a temple, and there is lots of forest for miles around - it can serve as the central hub.

• Highborne will have their all capital in Eldre'thalas [Alliance]
• Nightborne in Suramar [Horde]
• nazdorei in New Zin'Azshari - Nazjatar [TBD - but likely alliance, could be both]
• Fangfire Worgen (NElf one) - Shal'anir Val'Sharah [Alliance]

• Darnassian Capital - Hyjal

Hyjal capital would actually involve druid culture too amongst priest and Highborne. Yes Highborne will have a huge presence due to the well, druids because of the wild gods and trees, and Priests will have a temple built. And no, no tree city, Nordrassil and the surrounding forest is the tree portion, architecture is pre-sundering but full of nature and life as all aspects meet.

Blizzard basically do for the alliance night elves what they did for the Zandalari trolls.

[Beloren]

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Not going to happen, not in your wildest fantasy.

Mod Edit: Don't quote a large post for a one-sentence reply.

[Mace]

Not going to happen, not in your wildest fantasy.

It will happen, this is original vision of the Night elves fleshed out more fully and factoring Nightborne ont he horde, and most likely furutre allied races (playable or npc) that will complete the fantasy.

All this can come in 10.0 with a 5 year time skip. The only real new developments is a night elf city on Hyjal, and new groups Fangfire Worgen and Naz'dorei in play with homes in their respected places. Only Eldre'thalas, ruins of Zin'Azshari are fixed (naz'dorei Zin'Azshari is not like the original).

The night elves are formidable at this point, they are wielding the Well of Eternity and the power in the Emerald dream via the world tree, they moved the font of Elune to their new temple (the Nightborne Elune order use the Cathedral of Eternal Night). Exploring the night elves new capital and zones shows you all their various sides, including the Illidari who team up with the wardens (still two separate organisations but they work like highly elite squad, one for terrestrial affairs and threats, and the other more linked to extra-dimensional ones)

How The World Might Look If 10.0 Had a Timeskip
In the new Warcraft time jump, the races are far more autonomous than before. The night elves are alliance only in name, they help EK group with nothing, and don't ask for nay help, the alliance is core humans, void/high elves, dwarves, gnomes - Worgen and Draenei are different. Worgen are largely focused in Gilneas issues, Dranei are everyone's friends but generally busy with making a new life for themselves. The horde don't have a core. The trolls similar to the night elves are fairly autonomous, Zandalari leadership strengthens over most of the Troll tribes but the Darkspear still live and work closely with the orcs, and the Tauren are tight with them, the blood elves stick to themselves as do the Nightborne though the two work together a lot. They are small but they do well by themselves. The Farondis got restored, they are friendly with the Nightborne and with the Darnassians, but they have more interaction with the both the Fangfire Worgen (NElf worgen group from the Emerald dream allied race based in Val'Sharah) and Nightborne - faction loyalty is not a strong factor on the isles. Both the horde and alliance were not like they were in BFA - with races sworn to their side and drafted in, So the guys on the island pretty much continue life as normal without much interference from anyone. The blood elves do visit Suramar a lot though, but so do night elves some of which are friendly with the Niightborne but not aligned to the horde.


With the war at least 7 years in the past (possibly 10) everyone's been doing their thing. No major conflicts or escalations, no one wants to start one. New zones will have a zonal quests. Lordaeron is back, it has living and undead humans in it. It is a neutral hub city for both alliance and horde with leadership open to both, similar to how Dalaran became. Forsaken capital is in Northrend now, they got ICC, While the Deosolate council are horde aligned, again that doesn't mean much, the Lich King rules and he isn't aligned to any faction - the dynamic is with some complexity.

Illidari tend to work with their respective races.. night elf ones with night elf in NElf areas, blood elf ones with blood el areas incl ones in Outland, broken ones with broken, naga with naga etc. They fulfil their duty watching amongst the races of Azeroth and do so by having camps, HQs in many major race capitals - with BElf ones in most horde areas, NElf ones in most alliance areas, although their biggest bases are in NElf lands and BElf lands. They have recruited new members from other races to train as demon hunters - the mortality rate is much higher on other races, the elven members often joined after fresh great tragedies induced by demons, which produced the hatred and motivation to destroy the demons like no other and their magical blood made them naturally good at handling. Both the magic and the resolve to push though played huge roles in their success rates, very few individuals from other races have that degree fo demon hate to make it, especially with the Legion gone, but some do.

Draenei have rebuilt a version of Auchindouin on Blood myst isle and a new city where the exodar (now in the air was), it looks so futuristic.

Gnomeragan is saved, and looks very Gnomish, now, Kezan and Undermine (2 Goblin cities) have also been cleared and revealed, Goblins have sky scrapers and a lot of pollution.

Gilneas is back in Gilnean Worgen hands, while friendly with the night elves, they don't see much of each other being on opposite sides of the world, and unlike the Fangfire worgen (Night elf worgen) who can all enter the dream (only Gilnean worgen druids trained for it can), it tends to be the Fangfire seeing night elves a lot more often - I mean they live in Val'shsarh, so obviously.


Orgrimmar is a thriving city, it looks big, many more buildings and much of the Durotar peninsula is now urbanised, many more from Outland now live on Azeroth, While the horde capital, Orgrimmar has become perhaps the world's first truly global city. You find all races there now, not just horde ones, it's a huge trade centre - at the heart of moving/drigving the economy are ofc goblins. While alliance races are fewer there, most of the human survivors moved there. The orcs and night elves came to an agreement. The druids, led by Hammul, developed a forestry farm program in the Fertile growth (previously Barrens) zone, harnessing wood. The night elves declared Ashenvale a nature reserve with wood cutting/harvesting without permission, etc

. Theramor is an undead city on Kalimdor, (they're not all in Northrend) and the Farakki signed up with the horde in Tanaris. More Tauren cities in 1k needles and Stonetalon where they mix with night elvees.

Amongst the night elves, the druids seek to regrow all the forests losts and heal lands, the Highborne seek to restore the ruins and as much of kaldorei civilization as possible. They do this from their centre in Eldre'thalas - the rule westerna nd northern Feralas spilling into much of desolace, but unlike Hyjal, they're far more engaged with the world, trade etc, and serve as the defacto night elf civilization on Kalimdor - while Hyjal is full of researchers, and is more considered a sacred capital - the Highborne study and utlise the well, the druids the nature and the emerald dream through the tree, and a new Cathedral to Elune and primary HQ of the Order of Elune is built there. The Catehdral of Eternal night is the broken isle chapter, Nightborne and Val'Sharah priests that moved south operate it there - Elunites do pilgrimage to Hyjal, though it is mostly night elven. However CoEN has Nightborne, Fangfire worgen, Void elf races involved

Oh, and the night elves gained their immortality back once they started using the Well again. New conflicts and clashes occur down the line, and new threats emerge.

[Beloren]

It will happen, this is original vision of the Night elves fleshed out more fully and factoring Nightborne ont he horde, and most likely furutre allied races (playable or npc) that will complete the fantasy.

All this can come in 10.0 with a 5 year time skip. The only real new developments is a night elf city on Hyjal, and new groups Fangfire Worgen and Naz'dorei in play with homes in their respected places. Only Eldre'thalas, ruins of Zin'Azshari are fixed (naz'dorei Zin'Azshari is not like the original).

The night elves are formidable at this point, they are wielding the Well of Eternity and the power in the Emerald dream via the world tree, they moved the font of Elune to their new temple (the Nightborne Elune order use the Cathedral of Eternal Night). Exploring the night elves new capital and zones shows you all their various sides, including the Illidari who team up with the wardens (still two separate organisations but they work like highly elite squad, one for terrestrial affairs and threats, and the other more linked to extra-dimensional ones)

They will never do this, greatly lower your expectation.

[Mace]

They will never do this, greatly lower your expectation.

This is what they need to do for the Night elves to reflect the original vision properly and reward them for all the crap they wrote them through since the War of the Ancients - they've taken off again, and this is how I imagine it would look like for them in a 10.0 time skip

I don't know what is so unrealistic anyway.

Capital city? check
Power back (i.e. Well and world tre) check

Established in a way that has them reflecting the best of their pre-sundering civilziaiton and the best of their long vigil civilization in home that's not Suramar? - check

As for the others, my guestimates aren't unfair. It is likely Hyjal while hosting the capital won't be the only city, so the Shen'dralar would have restored Eldre'thalas at least, and the druids grown Felwood and Desolace.

the Nightborne and broken isles groups are logical , and the added expectation of a couple more races to beat.

Immortality does not affect gameplay at all, it's return is a just icing for Nelf fans who face it , are the only ones it really means anything to - the plot will always kill whoever it wants.

using the well and harnessing nature through the dream in a better way to emipoe r them and do stuff, well it's about time - they kinda need to explain the leap - so nothing out of the ordinary there.

People like you probably will only be able to accept night elves weak and in ruins, and anything that improves on that situation emphatically or positively you claim will never happen.

[Tanaria]

The Thalassians show an elven side that is influenced by humanity, and has a light/void dynamic to them. But they lack the nature magic prowress part, and they don't do arcane as heavily as the Highborne have, and they either specialise in light(blood/high elf) or void (void elf) where the Elune priesthood is not only more balanced, but has the arcane dimension to them.
.

So you missed the part where Alleria Windrunner clearly states "My people's mastery of the Arcane."

And have you forgotten what the Blood Elves have been doing since the Isle of Thunder with Blood Magic. Hell, they made up some of the first popular Blood Mages around

[ravenmoon]

So you missed the part where Alleria Windrunner clearly states "My people's mastery of the Arcane."

And have you forgotten what the Blood Elves have been doing since the Isle of Thunder with Blood Magic. Hell, they made up some of the first popular Blood Mages around

HE di not, he didn't say the blood elves don't have arcane mastery, they just don't do the arcane as society to the extent it happens amongst the Highborne. Historically the Highborne have been more arcane intense than the Thalssians, as Suramar proves, when the sin'odrei were formed, arcane fervour , pursuit, research accelerated, but there society was always mixed. The Highborne are better off being compared to the Nightborne or even the Magister group whose purpose is purely arcane.

Thalassians don't do "elven" as intensely as night elves do. For every area the night elves operate in, that is considered "Elven" they have practitioners that are INSANELY devoted. Now swap every time I entioned HIghborne to Nightborne, and if youa re fine with that statement but not with Highborne, then you have a bias.

- - - Updated - - -

This suggestion originally came from me, but the effort here is not for night elf equality across the factions. The night elves are an alliance race predominantly (Nightborne are an allied race only). The faction on the alliance is the main kaldorei group and I strongly feel it should show all the aspects of the Night elves and either be the best at it or as good as any other elven group that has something from the Night elves.

This includes the arcane, nature, priesthood, night elf civilization, night elf forest culture, druidism. No one should do Highborne better than the actual Highborne, The Nightborne can do it the same, not better, the blood elves who are hearkening back to that ancient heritage can do it similarly but not better, this comes from the night elves.

the faction on the alliance should be the standard bearers, leading in innovation, character, and morals. They have both the right and the basis for it, with druidism and Elunism and the arcane, they have balance, harmony and experience the blood elves don't have (being a devolution elf race and humanised), a wholeness and healthiness the Nightborne don't have (being predominantly arcane without the clear benefits spiritual discipline and moral rectitude from a priesthood or the strength of balance and harmony). All have the wisdom from the past mistake, but non more poignant and none having carried the burden longer than the kaldorei.

The lore has shown them paying the price in full above every other elven group, endured the longest,, fought the hardest - they are the ones that should pull through the most on all things Elven.

The Thalassians show an elven side that is influenced by humanity, and has a light/void dynamic to them. But they lack the nature magic prowress part, and they don't do arcane as heavily as the Highborne have, and they either specialise in light(blood/high elf) or void (void elf) where the Elune priesthood is not only more balanced, but has the arcane dimension to them.

The Nightborne - have only the Highborne portion from the night elves, it will be weaker than the Highborne. Magic wise in terms of skill and knowledge, it's pretty much on par, but the Highborne have a strong balancing factor and accountability via the druids and the priests - this balance coupled with their ability and drive should yield better, more stable results long run. The Nightborne do explore what night elven Highborne would be like mixing with blood elves, and have a chronomancy speciality unique to them, but that is a weak identifier .

The Night elves, and the ones on the alliance, should be the standard bearers for the race. I'm fine with other groups joining the horde Nightborne, but they must not replace, or outshine the alliance aligned kaldorei - they can match their strengths with them (like Nightborne arcana matching Darnassian Highborne), but the other aspects of the night elves should win through.

the Darnassian Kaldorei should be the strong and leading elven group, just like the Zandalari would be for trolls, doesn't stop the Darkspear from being special and unique, but they're not the power house the Zandalari are, so it should be with the Darnassians. You don't out Elf the kaldorei, it doesn't get more "elfy" than the Kaldorei, there is none more elven. You don't out elf the originals.

And this is how it should be. Elves are not native to the horde even though two groups are there, and while I am onboard with the Blood elves dominating the Thalassian scene over the void/high elves, and for their size and fame doing quite well and quite special, they are not the original and they should not out elf the Night elf.

So blizzard should hurry up and restore all. Eventually I would like Night elves to dominate their 16 zones, with their sub-races (including Nightborne) in their parent zones. It shouldn't be a surprise to see night elves walking Suramar streets, whether they Arcan'dor healed Nightborne looking more like the original or other kaldorei visiting, migrated to Suramar or otherwise. Suramar I'm fin with being the Nightborne capital, even if some night elves live there, just like any Naga sub-race should have Zin'Azsahri- Nazjatar, and worgen night elves should have Val'Sharah.

A new night elf grand capital should be on Hyjal. It's the best location if you're going to build fully for the night elvs - but if you're not, it's the broken isles. Hyjal has the Well of Eternity, the Tree, the wild gods. Build a great city, and a temple, and there is lots of forest for miles around - it can serve as the central hub.

• Highborne will have their all capital in Eldre'thalas [Alliance]
• Nightborne in Suramar [Horde]
• nazdorei in New Zin'Azshari - Nazjatar [TBD - but likely alliance, could be both]
• Fangfire Worgen (NElf one) - Shal'anir Val'Sharah [Alliance]

• Darnassian Capital - Hyjal

Hyjal capital would actually involve druid culture too amongst priest and Highborne. Yes Highborne will have a huge presence due to the well, druids because of the wild gods and trees, and Priests will have a temple built. And no, no tree city, Nordrassil and the surrounding forest is the tree portion, architecture is pre-sundering but full of nature and life as all aspects meet.

Blizzard basically do for the alliance night elves what they did for the Zandalari trolls.

ooo.. yeah. 1--% for emphasis.
@EnigmAddict - as long as faction identity trumps racial identity, , I will agree with Mace on this one. I ssupported the idea you proposed even when you were not on board with it, but that's for a world where tbeing "alliance" or "horde" doesn't mean much to the islanders, and most people there get on together after sharing the trauma of the Legion..rather than jumping to sides.

he kaldorei faction aligned to the alliance should have the best of all thigs night elven. And i totally agree that's not to say, the other elves can't be special or unique at certain things , but you can't out "pre-sundering" the night elves, nor out arcane, out nature our religious them. Now you can out Light magic specialise them or out void magic specialise them, you can also out chronomancy magic specialise them, these are features the other elf off shoots have that are not from the original kaldorei.

I am also fine with Nightborne being as good as the night elves , even live in as beautiful a location (which funnily enough is night elven ) but not moreso - i am deadset against blizzard just removing kaldorei arcane heritage from the current night elves and make it live better on the horde through the Nightborne.. I think the original vision of the night elves was the original elf group encompassing all the parts, so you sere them strongly in them while off shoot groups only have some areas (like arcane, ranger stuff from the night elvs which they can match at the highest levels - but blood elf rangers shoudln't be better than night elf ones, blood elf arcane users shouldn't be better than night elf moonguard/highborne ones) but the off shoot groups should have some new things the original didn't have - i'm fine with that - like the light magic in the Blood knights, or the void magic in the void elves and chrono/telemancy in the Nightborne