First Gaming PC: Can I run on max settings?

[argargarg]

Hello everyone!

I've played this game for 12+ years on MacBooks and MacBook pros and figured its time for an upgrade. I know nothing about gaming PCs but I found this on craigslist from an Internet cafe that's closing down and I had 2 questions: 1. Is it worth the price 2. Can I run the game smoothly on max graphics. Bonus question - if no, what upgrades would I need to make that possible?

Here's the build :
CPU:i5 8600k
GPU: GTX 1070 8GB
Motherboard: Z370 Gaming Plus
Ram: 8 GB DDR4 3000 Corsair Vengeance
Storage: 512 GB SSD (will probably add 1 TB HDD)
PSU: 600W
Case: aerocool Cylon RGB

Price is 865 plus tax.

Thanks in advance guys!

[Temp name]

Max settings at what resolution? 1080p? Probably. 4k? Fuck no.

But that's a.. Fine.. System for the price. You probably won't get much better building it yourself.

[opree]

Not worth the price at all. Can put together something brand new that will perform better and be cheaper

pcpartpicker . com/list/tgsDHB

Ryzen 5 3600, b450 tomahawk max, 16gb ram, 500gb ssd, rtx 2060, 430w thermaltake psu, aerocool cylon case.

$780, new, will perform better

[Temp name]

Not worth the price at all. Can put together something brand new that will perform better and be cheaper

pcpartpicker . com/list/tgsDHB

Ryzen 5 3600, b450 tomahawk max, 16gb ram, 500gb ssd, rtx 2060, 430w thermaltake psu, aerocool cylon case.

$780, new, will perform better

MOBO isn't in stock, your SSD doesn't have a cache, your PSU is shit

[argargarg]

Thanks for the opinions. When you say it's...fine... you mean it's not the best value? Looking for some more detailed opinions, I told the guy id look at it in 6 hours so I have that much time to figure it out

edit: no plans on doing 4k. Im willing to spend up to 1000 so if I can get something thats going definitely run smoothly for 900 or something that would be good. I also mix/master/produce music for people so I want it to be able to handle that too but I dont think that would require as much processing as WoW except for some songs that have 200+ tracks/channels

[opree]

MOBO isn't in stock, your SSD doesn't have a cache, your PSU is shit

So? there are plenty of motherboard options if you don't want to wait for stock, worrying about/paying extra for ram cache on a budget gaming build is insane and the psu is just fine (if you want to be super nit picky add $20).

You really think the OPs system is going to have a premium ssd and psu?

[Bigbazz]

That's quite a dated system, it will run WoW at 1080p max settings but you'd still benefit from turning them down a bit for consistent smooth performance. Running max settings in any game is almost always a massive waste of time though, you get effectively no noticeable visual increase and it costs a lot of FPS.

[Kagthul]

So? there are plenty of motherboard options if you don't want to wait for stock,

Actually there aren't. B450 isnt going to come back into stock (its out of production, meng) and B550 is 30-50$ more expensive. As several of the Tech-tuber's have pointed out, until B550 boards that dont suck are at the 100$ price range, you're better off getting a (much better, feature wise) X570 for 129.

worrying about/paying extra for ram cache on a budget gaming build

Near 900$ is not a "budget" build.

is insane and the psu is just fine (if you want to be super nit picky add $20).

The PSU is garbage. Not because of cost, but because its a really bad PSU.

You really think the OPs system is going to have a premium ssd and psu?

A DRAM Cacheless SSD is basically pointless. Itll be as slow as spinning rust in a week. And there's a wide margin between "bargain basement shit" and "premium".

Stuff you chose was bargain basement shit.

A Cybercafe who has to run the system all day/every day, proabbly used at least "good" parts.

And, at least in gaming, that 8600K will take that 3600 out and make it eat the curb, because it will likely overclock to 5ghz. And before you get into the "but if you run other stuff in the background!" garbage.. no. Discord/Chrome/etc dont eat up a significant amount of CPU.

Unless the stuff you're "doing in the background" is ... Streaming, or some other kind of heavy lifting, youll be fine.

Even then.. just use NVENC, or Quicksync via the iGPU in the 8600K.

- - - Updated - - -

That's quite a dated system,

In what way, exactly? The 8600K is still fine for AAA gaming. The only difference (at all) between the 8600K and 10600K is.... hyperthreading. Which isn't particularly useful for games (which take nearly no advantage of it) and really only helps allieviate background congestion. The 1070 is still just as good as a 2060, because Ray Tracing on the 2060 might as well not exist.

it will run WoW at 1080p max settings but you'd still benefit from turning them down a bit for consistent smooth performance.

Which quite literally has nothing to with the parts involved; it wont run any better even on a bleeding edge system.

Running max settings in any game is almost always a massive waste of time though, you get effectively no noticeable visual increase and it costs a lot of FPS.

Well, this is correct, at least.


To the OP:

send him an offer for 100$ less than he's asking.

Worst he does is say no, and you pony up the full price, which isn't... bad. Could you do better if you shopped sales? Yeah, probably. But its already built, its plenty powerful for AAA gaming at 1080p (and with a simple GPU upgrade down the line, well above 1080p; i run 1440p/144hz/ high-ultra settings in AAA games on a 1080Ti and an 8600K @ 4.8-5.0ghz (i turn it down in the summer just because the ambient in my house gets farking hot which causes the temps to rise, because, ofc, they cant go below ambient)

You could certainly do worse.

- - - Updated - - -

I also mix/master/produce music for people so I want it to be able to handle that too but I dont think that would require as much processing as WoW except for some songs that have 200+ tracks/channels

My recommendation here is to keep your Mac for this.

The software is just generally better for sound, or so the many DJs and other music afficianados i source machines for tell me.

(As a side hustle, i buy and sell stuff on Craigslist that people list too cheap, or find used machines for clients that dont want to shell out full price on new hardare).

Im in the Detroit MI area and there are a lot of audio prosumers and pros here that i've sourced machines for. They are all looking for Macs.

If your current Mac isn't up to it, consider looking at the used market for one that is.

I picked up my current daily driver Mac (a 2014 MBP 15" w/i7 and 16GB of RAM) for 300$ on Craigslist (or it might have been the FB Market, which is gradually choking CL to death).

Also, having two computers side by side is a lot more convenient, IMO and IME (E for "Experience") than using dual-monitors, particularly on Windows, whose multi-monitor management is still somehow mired in the early 2000s compared to Linux, MacOS, or even ChromeOS. You can browse, watch movies, etc, without it ever impacting your gaming experience, and if you need to be doing work, you can do so without taking your gaming rig offline to do it.

If you want to look at building your own, thats certainly an option, but that machine is... decent, even for the price he's asking.

Like i said, id offer him 750$ and see if he bites.

In a year or two you can throw in a new GPU and that thing will still be a great gaming machine. A solid six-core running 4.7-5ghz isn't going to "bad" for gaming for years.

[argargarg]

Thanks for the lengthy responses, they really help. I offered him 750 and am waiting on a response, apparently there's sales tax too so definitely not trying to pay over 850 for these parts which from what I gather seem at a decent price but not a great one. Agreed about the audio stuff too, since my Mac is a laptop it also makes it easier to be mobile. So from my understanding of these replies is that it's a DECENT machine for the price, nothing crazy powerful but it will run the game on max settings (or close to it). My friend who really doesn't know shit about computer said the CPU is what could use an upgrade and that's kinda the bottleneck to all of it, is that at least somewhat true? The guy im potentially buying from is selling a ton of parts including i7 processors (4790k for 190$ and 6700k for 240$. Would it maybe be worth it to have him stick one of those in there? Also if he won't take 750 and stays firm at 850 will I be able to have one built on Newegg or some shit for a similar price? I checked a few websites and it's somewhat comparable but again I have no idea what im doing so I would just like to make sure. Thanks again guys

[Kagthul]

My friend who really doesn't know shit about computer said the CPU is what could use an upgrade and that's kinda the bottleneck to all of it, is that at least somewhat true?

No, not remotely. The 8600K is literally the exact same CPU that is in the brand-new 10600K. The only difference is slightly tweaked stock clock speeds and the newer 10600K has hyperthreading enabled (So it is 6 cores/12 threads). Thats it. It will be a perfectly suitable CPU for gaming for several more years.

The guy im potentially buying from is selling a ton of parts including i7 processors (4790k for 190$ and 6700k for 240$. Would it maybe be worth it to have him stick one of those in there?

Neither is compatible. The 4790K is several years older (still a decent CPU, honestly), and fits in an entirely different socket and motherboard type, and the 6700K while it uses the same socket (1150), isnt electrically compatible with Z370, which is basically Socket 1150v2 (what some of the pins do was changed).

ANd they are both quad core parts (though with hyperthreading), so they wouldnt even perform better than the 8600K (roughly equal in the case of the 6700K as 6 real cores vs 4 core + 4 virtual cores are roughly equal, on that platform).

Also if he won't take 750 and stays firm at 850 will I be able to have one built on Newegg or some shit for a similar price? I checked a few websites and it's somewhat comparable but again I have no idea what im doing so I would just like to make sure. Thanks again guys

If you're not going to buy the prebuilt, just build it yourself. Its REALLY not that hard. Its basically Legos for adults, all the things that plug in are generally keyed to only fit in the place they go (you cant mistakenly plug the PCIe power into the CPU 8-pin EPS, they wont fit), etc. Its not hard at all.

If you're going to build it yourself, i'd go with AMDs Ryzen over Intel just because the performance delta isn't that big (about 10-15%, depending on how well any given Intel part will overclock) but Ryzen is quite a bit cheaper. And we're not talking the difference (10-15%) being between "playable" or "not playable", we're talking a difference (in most games) between "amazing FPS" (Intel) to "really damn good fps" (AMD/Ryzen), both well above 60fps @ 1080p.

Understand one thing about WoW, though:

youll still see dips below 60fps from time to time no matter what. Its due to the nature of the engine and is not a "problem" you can solve by throwing money at. Even bleeding edge systems have trouble maintaining 60fps 100% of the time (though it is finally possible for very, very high end rigs, just barely) - but it will only be occasional dips during busy raids and in big capital cities with bajillions of people around. 95% of the time or more youll be well above 60fps in WoW on either platform (Intel or AMD).

[Bigbazz]

etc etc

How is a GPU from 2016, 8 GB of 2016 memory (which was a decent amount in 2010) not a dated system? I didn't say it was bad, it will run fine for 1080p gaming, but it's still a dated system.

[Kagthul]

More info:

I was going to put together an example build, but thats been nearly impossible, as there is virtually no stock, anywhere, on B450, B550, or reasonably prices X570 motherboards.

PCPartpicker, for whatever reason, doesn't list Micro Center, and they DO have some available.... IF you live near one and can go pick it up. They aren't selling them online.

So... that pre-built all of a sudden looks a little better because you'd find it almost literally impossible to actually build an AMD system right now unless you happen to live near a Micro Center. (If you DO, though, youll actually end up saving money as they offer in-store discounts on MoBo/CPU bundles, and often sell CPUs well under MSRP).

One thing id note about the prebuilt.

When we say it is "OK" for the price, it means that its a fine system. It will do what you want (even at the ~850 price), and is about the price you'd pay at a low-end 3rd party builder like CyberPower or iBuyPower, but is likely better quality than those services because it was built by a guy running his own store.

Its not a rip off, is what we're saying. Yeah, you might be able to do better building it yourself, but there's not any harm to just buying it. (...And especially given the serious supply issues AMD-based parts seem to be experiencing, you might have to wait months to be able to get those deals.) Itll be a great machine for years to come (with a GPU upgrade in the next year or two). A fast six core machine isn't going to be holding you back from AAA gaming for the reasonable life of the machine. (I.E. by the time it starts to be too slow, you'd be looking to replace it anyway because of its age and new features on newer machines).

There's certainly the simplicity of just being able to buy it and have it and be done with it.

- - - Updated - - -

How is a GPU from 2016,

That performs identically to a high-midrange card from 2020

8 GB of 2016 memory (which was a decent amount in 2010) not a dated system?

Its still a perfectly adequate amount of RAM now. And its not like adding RAM is expensive. Let me guess, you're one of those people who constantly looks at your RAM and is like "ZOMG IM GOING TO NEEZ 64 GIGZ ANY DAY NAO" without realizing that the reason most of your RAM is comitted is because it wont dump stuff from RAM until it needs to? (Same with VRAM; just because you think its full doesn't mean you need more, it just means that it hasnt flushed unused data out of the VRAM because it hasnt had to)

I mean, its not like GN, Jayz, LTT, BitWit, or Paul's have done videos showing that 8GB is still completely fine and produces no real performance differences, right? Trying to pretend that 8GB of RAM is somehow insufficient is just delusional.

I didn't say it was bad, it will run fine for 1080p gaming, but it's still a dated system.

You implied it was inferior, which is incorrect.

[Bigbazz]

You implied it was inferior, which is incorrect.

I didn't imply anything, I said it would be fine for 1080p. It's a dated system and I wouldn't pay that money for a used system. As for the rest, stop reading too much into everything, if you want an 8gb system you carry on, but that doesn't mean 8gb of 2016 memory in a system that costs that much is good value, I regularly use above 12gb of memory with general use but hey 8gb is enough. And it's funny that you harper on saying all this stuff when my own system is very similar to the one described, same memory, same gpu... Except I built mine in 2016 and am looking to upgrade at some point.

Will he be able to run games on max settings? No, is the realistic answer, not if he wants good performance.

[Kagthul]

I think its also worth pointing out that a lot of the people on these forums are dedicated hardware nerds (me included) and will often forget that you DONT really need super high end hardware to get very pleasing gaming results.

Like, almost everyone here will assume you're going to overclock a CPU (if it makes sense)... but you dont have to.

The performance difference in almost all cases is just not that significant and is almost never going to be between "acceptable" and "unacceptable" - merely between "good performance" and "even better performance".

So a lot of us will often insert our own prejudices or thoughts into a build suggestion without really considering what the "Average user" or "average gamer" really needs or even what will really benefit them.

Like, yeah, would you get a "better" machine going with a Ryzen 5 3600 vs an i5 10400? Sure, on paper, because the Ryzen 5 is overclockable. Technically. But in a lot of instances, without a really good golden sample, you're not going to get a meaningful all-core overclock any faster than the i5's all-core boost of 4.3ghz.

So in reality, either machine would suit the average gamer just fine, and theyd never notice a real difference.

So, keep that in mind as you read suggestions.

Here's a couple of example builds:

Ill start with Intel since parts actually seem to be available:

PCPartPicker Part List: https://pcpartpicker.com/list/TBVjx6

CPU: Intel Core i5-10400 2.9 GHz 6-Core Processor ($189.99 @ B&H)
Motherboard: ASRock B460M Pro4 Micro ATX LGA1200 Motherboard ($93.98 @ Newegg)
Memory: Corsair Vengeance LPX 16 GB (2 x 8 GB) DDR4-3200 CL16 Memory ($47.99 @ Amazon)
Storage: Crucial P1 500 GB M.2-2280 NVME Solid State Drive ($62.99 @ Adorama)
Video Card: PNY GeForce RTX 2060 6 GB XLR8 Gaming Overclocked Edition Video Card ($265.99 @ Best Buy)
Case: Cooler Master MasterBox Q300L MicroATX Mini Tower Case ($49.99 @ Amazon)
Power Supply: EVGA BR 700 W 80+ Bronze Certified ATX Power Supply ($74.99 @ Best Buy)
Total: $785.92
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2020-06-21 20:29 EDT-0400

Itll all-core boost to 4.3ghz, which is about as good as youd get on an all-core OC on an R5 3600, its available, and its plenty fast for gaming. Yeah, a 10600K/KF could overclock to 5.1ghz, but the performance difference between 4.3ghz and 5.1 isn't going to be deal-breaking. At no point it is going to be the difference between "playable" and "unplayable" - more likely the difference between 100+fps and 115+fps.

I'd suggest the 10400F (no iGPU) but it doesn't seem to be available yet - its otherwise the same, just doesn't have the iGPU so its cheaper. However having the iGPU doesn't hurt you - you can use it to stream if you want, and if your GPU goes belly up, you at least have the iGPU to fall back on.

Here's the AMD build, which you could only pull off if you live near a Micro Center (at least for now, due to supply issues). Its basically the same build (all the parts but the CPU and MoBO).

PCPartPicker Part List: https://pcpartpicker.com/list/bdZhp8

CPU: AMD Ryzen 5 3600 3.6 GHz 6-Core Processor ($159.00)
Motherboard: ASRock B450 Pro4 ATX AM4 Motherboard ($89.00)
Memory: Corsair Vengeance LPX 16 GB (2 x 8 GB) DDR4-3200 CL16 Memory ($47.99 @ Amazon)
Storage: Crucial P1 500 GB M.2-2280 NVME Solid State Drive ($62.99 @ Adorama)
Video Card: PNY GeForce RTX 2060 6 GB XLR8 Gaming Overclocked Edition Video Card ($265.99 @ Best Buy)
Case: Thermaltake Versa H22 ATX Mid Tower Case ($54.98 @ Newegg)
Power Supply: EVGA BR 700 W 80+ Bronze Certified ATX Power Supply ($74.99 @ Best Buy)
Total: $754.94
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2020-06-21 20:41 EDT-0400

I manually changed the prices to reflect the Micro Center prices (on the CPU and MoBo).

Case is also different, as Micro Center had no Micro-ATX AM4 boards available. Case choice, as always, is subjective. Get what you like

[Temp name]

So? there are plenty of motherboard options if you don't want to wait for stock,

There's basically no B450's in stock that don't suck massive donkey balls, and they probably won't be again either. B550 is the closest thing, but, uh.. "closest". They're 20-50 dollars more expensive (Or, if you look at the Tomahawk, 70)

worrying about/paying extra for ram cache on a budget gaming build is insane

It makes perfect sense, because DRAMless SSDs are fucking garbage. They perform about the same as a HDD, at higher cost, and lower capacity. Also, budget? The dude's paying like 900 dollars, that's not budget. That's mid-range.

and the psu is just fine (if you want to be super nit picky add $20).

It isn't. It's shit. And it's not 20 dollars to get a good one, it's like 50, because stock is bonkers.

You really think the OPs system is going to have a premium ssd and psu?

Yes. Because it's a system meant to run 16+ hours a day, launching random games and programs. If they have a shit SSD, they're going to be slow as fuck, if they have a shit PSU they might shut down randomly.

- - - Updated - - -

Here's a couple of example builds:

Ill start with Intel since parts actually seem to be available:

I know you say examples, but.. Don't pick a 10400. It performs worse than a 3600 by a wide margin unless you get a z490 board so you can actually run your RAM at more than 2666mhz. Because, that's a thing that Intel still locks out for some reason. https://youtu.be/csFwlKgZCzM
It will give you playable fps, yes, but I see no reason to pay more money so you can get less performance.

[Kagthul]

I know you say examples, but.. Don't pick a 10400. It performs worse than a 3600 by a wide margin unless you get a z490 board so you can actually run your RAM at more than 2666mhz

Ehh.. thats not my takeaway from that video -at all-

My takeaway, is that its fps numbers that are going to be not-noticeable to an end user that isn't watching their FPS meter like a hawk.

And.. "wide margin" ? In most instances it was sub 8fps. It outperforms ITSELF by a wider margin with faster RAM, but on almost all of those charts its not behind enough that i'd consider it meaningful.

See my earlier post:

The performance difference in almost all cases is just not that significant and is almost never going to be between "acceptable" and "unacceptable" - merely between "good performance" and "even better performance".

So a lot of us will often insert our own prejudices or thoughts into a build suggestion without really considering what the "Average user" or "average gamer" really needs or even what will really benefit them.

Like, yeah, would you get a "better" machine going with a Ryzen 5 3600 vs an i5 10400? Sure, on paper, because the Ryzen 5 is overclockable. Technically. But in a lot of instances, without a really good golden sample, you're not going to get a meaningful all-core overclock any faster than the i5's all-core boost of 4.3ghz.

So in reality, either machine would suit the average gamer just fine, and theyd never notice a real difference.

. Because, that's a thing that Intel still locks out for some reason. https://youtu.be/csFwlKgZCzM
It will give you playable fps, yes, but I see no reason to pay more money so you can get less performance.

Over 100fps in all tests is a lot more than "playable".

And its not actually more money.

The 10400 comes in at 189$.
The 3600, unless you catch it on sale or live close enough to a Micro Center to buy it in store, is 199$.

The 10400 has an iGPU, and the 3600 does not. A 10400F (more comparable to a 3600) will be ~169$ or 159$ (which is what MC sells the 3600 for in-store) - if/when they come into stock, ofc.

There aren't any cheap boards you can use for a 3600 anymore (Until/unless some of the ones with ~100$ MSRPs listed on NewEgg actually ever come into stock)..

But you can put that 10400 into a H410 that costs 60$. I only chose the B460 above because it has a good selection of ports that H410 sometimes lacks, and the OP had a reasonable budget.

199$ + 100$ (if/when they exist) = 299$ price-of-entry for an R5 3600; right now, real-life prices are more like 349-399$ unless you happen to live close enough to Micro Center to grab a B450 for ~100$ (and depending on what your particular MC has in stock - mine only has 2 B450 boards, though it has 20+ of each). If you can even build one at all.

189 + 60$ = 250$ price-of-entry on the 10400. More like 230 if/when an -F SKU appears.

That's less money, for, yes, commensurately less performance, but....

Its not the difference between playable and not-playable. Its the difference between 100+fps, and 115+fps.

And you could actually build one right now, unlike a Ryzen based system.

Now, if you can afford to wait for AMD's parts issues to stabilize, etc, then it might be worth the extra 17% cost for the extra 5-8% performance.

Im not convinced that that is worth it since the outcome in both cases is "above 100fps easily" and if you're really interested in pushing high-refresh gaming, this isn't your budget range anyway. I think Steve made a bad call here. The 10400 actually seems like a pretty compelling part, especially considering it can be forced to boost to 4.2 all cores (which Jay was complaining about a few videos back, because they had to redo testing because out of the box several of the MoBos had the special branded features turned on that force all-core boosts higher, etc) if you have a motherboard that can handle it (unlikely any of the H410s will fit that bill, but there are B460s that probably will for not a lot more).

Its not clearly better than a 3600.... but neither is the 3600 clearly better, given the higher price of entry. Either is a viable choice depending on budget. Particularly if they get out the 10400F, at ~169 or 159.

[argargarg]

I gotta say I was not expecting this level of help and I really appreciate the time put into these posts! And thank you for explaining things in a way that I can understand (sometimes with a few google searches lol) the guy wouldn't move on the price so I think I am going to hold off and look into the setups you mentioned. I can run the game on my MacBook Pro right now (at graphics level 3) so it's not like I have no way of playing and from all this it seems like I might be better off biding my time because I'm more interested in getting a good deal than getting a faster PC ASAP. Thanks again for your time!