Mythic+

[klaps_05]

Considering the amounts of whines regarding M+ I think this is not an option for most players.

The progression system is flawed. You can basically reach somewhere between ilvl 445-450 without setting foot in M+. At that point either you raid at least HC (but in this case you don’t probably need help with M+ because you can just guild them) or you need at least a +7 to earn meaningful gear.

But you never set foot in M+, so you have no rio, so if you are a dps you won’t get invited in pugs no matter what. You are forced to run a lot of useless +2/+6 in order to gain some score.

Mmochampion complaints are more or less from the same people and also a minuscule sample. Also, how is whining on forums preventing players to play with friends instead of pugging?

Progression system is fine - you get to 120, you clear normal raid a few times, you clear heroic a few times, you do mythic if you have a mythic guild. Same for keys - you do all +2s/+3s, then all +4s/+5s, etc. and slowly build your r.io, experience and end up in high keys.

If you never set foot in m+, maybe dont expect to be invited to +15 and higher keys but instead work your way through the lower keys. The +2/+6s you call useless are what shows people you have done the dungeon on +X. Less self-entitlement and more putting in the work.

[tehealadin]

I like it, I think it was one of the best features added to the game, a nice alternative to raiding that still gives good rewards as well as a challenge.

[Nobleshield]

Yes, absolutely. Sadly we seem to be in the minority but M+ I feel single handedly killed the RPG aspect of WoW and made the game appeal to the MOBA/FPS/e-sport/streaming crowd. I get that it keeps dungeons relevant or whatever but the sort of gameplay it encourages is the antithesis of an RPG and the fact so many people like it just shows how gaming has changed from what a MMORPG used to be to what WoW has become now.

[chiddie]

Mmochampion complaints are more or less from the same people and also a minuscule sample. Also, how is whining on forums preventing players to play with friends instead of pugging?

Progression system is fine - you get to 120, you clear normal raid a few times, you clear heroic a few times, you do mythic if you have a mythic guild. Same for keys - you do all +2s/+3s, then all +4s/+5s, etc. and slowly build your r.io, experience and end up in high keys.

If you never set foot in m+, maybe dont expect to be invited to +15 and higher keys but instead work your way through the lower keys. The +2/+6s you call useless are what shows people you have done the dungeon on +X. Less self-entitlement and more putting in the work.

Except that you don’t need to set foot in M+ to reach 445-450 (that’s +5/6 gear more or less). Doing other content is way less stressing and faster.

But if I can understand the “starting from scratch and slowly progress towards M+” with the main, with alts it’s a total waste of time unless you switch from a dps/healer to a tank.

Unless your group is heavily undergeared or brainless, doing up to 6/7 with a 445-450 toon is a total waste of time and you won’t learn anything more you already learned with your main.

[Rioo]

Best shit since 10-man heroics. Love being able to do some challenging content without all the planning, time commitment, and carrying that comes with larger groups.

[Lethius]

Mythic + is great, whats not to like about it really? You can scale diffculty to suit all gear and capabilities so whether you're a highly skilled top of your game player pushing high keys or whether you're not particuarly good or well geared you can do lower keys and still challenge yourself and get gear improvements there is something for everyone. It's also a decent way to catch up an alt who just hits max level where without it you'd really struggle to get raid ready.

The only thing I'd say is if you aren't in an active guild some classes and specs are obviously easier to get groups with than others, but given the nature of how it works I'm not sure there is anything else you could do. Unless Blizzard did some kind of tiered group finder with their own IO mechanism for higher keys.

[enigma77]

Nah it's one of the best features ever added to the game.

[OFiveNine]

Yes, absolutely. Sadly we seem to be in the minority but M+ I feel single handedly killed the RPG aspect of WoW and made the game appeal to the MOBA/FPS/e-sport/streaming crowd. I get that it keeps dungeons relevant or whatever but the sort of gameplay it encourages is the antithesis of an RPG and the fact so many people like it just shows how gaming has changed from what a MMORPG used to be to what WoW has become now.

Ngl i'd rather m+ than do 6 dailies a day on every character and raiding x amount of times per week

[callipygoustp]

One of the best features ever added to the game.

Meaningful 5man content? Oh the horror!

[dirtyjokes]

No, thanks, I love it. One of the few reasons that keeps me playing for more than a month every patch.

[enigma77]

One thing I will say is I still think m+ has a lot of potential, especially regarding item progression. A currency (like Titan Residuum) should be added in Shadowlands that allows you to increase the item level of loot, up to Mythic raid itemlevel and also add sockets. That currency would be in both the weekly and end of dungeon chest, giving you further progression once you've reached the maximum itemlevel you can get out of M+. Right now, with the removal of titanforging (thank god), there is one problem: M+ progression ends at 465.

Secondly I think more cosmetic rewards should be added. Remember challenge mode gear sets/mounts from MoP/WoD? That shit was neat. Imagine getting an amazing new set for your class if you complete a +20 key intime for every dungeon. Imagine the boost sales.

[Wuusah]

But you never set foot in M+, so you have no rio, so if you are a dps you won’t get invited in pugs no matter what. You are forced to run a lot of useless +2/+6 in order to gain some score.

You have a key of your own. You make a group of your own, you beat the timer, the key goes up, you make another group, you beat the timer, your key goes up. People don't take you in their groups? Make your own group.

I wish I would get loot thats an actual upgrade for certain pieces I'm wearing, then I would bother to run it some more. I'm brewmaster tanking with a 410 blue staff I got from world quests. Over the past few weeks, I was lucky enough to squeeze myself into mythic plus runs, only to get loot that was technically only a few ilvl upgrade for what I already had. Still no new staff, so I'm hindered on further pushes and keystone progress.

You know you can get a 440 weapon by just capping conquest points once?

Except that you don’t need to set foot in M+ to reach 445-450 (that’s +5/6 gear more or less). Doing other content is way less stressing and faster.

But if I can understand the “starting from scratch and slowly progress towards M+” with the main, with alts it’s a total waste of time unless you switch from a dps/healer to a tank.

Unless your group is heavily undergeared or brainless, doing up to 6/7 with a 445-450 toon is a total waste of time and you won’t learn anything more you already learned with your main.

You are not starting from scratch with alts. You can link your main with your alts in raider.io so that your main rio is shown on your alt. You only start from scratch once. And yes, it's possible that your ilvl will be way above the M+ dungeon that you are running because you are getting items left and right. BUT ilvl isn't that important in M+. It's more important that you UNDERSTAND the dungeon. That you understand how the trash works, how the bosses work, what paths you take through the dungeon. How the M+ affixes work. You can have a crazy well equipped healer but if he doesn't understand how grievous works, you're going to have a bad time. If your tank doesn't understand necrotic, you're going to have a bad time. If the group doesn't kill explosion orbs, you're going to have a very bad time. People with a high rio score show that they should understand the base mechanics of M+ and people who did exactly the dungeon you want to go on a higher level show that they understand how those bosses work. Just yesterday I did the mistake of inviting an unexperienced ele shaman into a +14 Siege run. That ele complete destroyed our run because he was not kiting the first boss through bombs. The best he did before was a +9 I think. On such a level (maybe even without tyrannical) you can just burst the boss down and ignore pretty much everything. His gear was great. His boss knowledge was non-existent. That's why you work yourself up by doing lower keys first and don't just jump into a high key immediately. You don't know shit about the dungeon and all you're hoping for is a carry. That's why usually nobody invites players with a low rio score. It's not enough to have good items.

[Twdft]

Unless your group is heavily undergeared or brainless, doing up to 6/7 with a 445-450 toon is a total waste of time and you won’t learn anything more you already learned with your main.

You only have to get 200 score until your main score is visible on Alts. Not too much of a burden I think.

[justandulas]

Anybody else feel mythic+ was the worst thing to ever get developed in wow?

It’s both the best, and the worst addition in years.

On one hand, they’ve made dungeons relevant long term, fun, and gear upgrades for lesser players.

On the other, it further homogenized everything including gear so that WoW is more like diablo 3 than vanilla wow. Gearing up has never been easier, and the gear has never meant less. It also helped them turn wow into a seasonal game openly, which further devalued raids and makes it more diablo 3 than Everquest

If I could I’d either remove them or cap their rewards below heroic raid, or offer cosmetics

The raids are meant to be the meat and potatoes of gearing; not an alternative to your 5 man grinds

You can never step foot inside a raid and at the end of the season, be equally geared as a mythic raider. That’s bad game design and a major reason why raiding is at an all time low participation wise. Even wow classic has more people raiding on WoW logs than retail currently does

[Matthias]

We've complained since WoTLK that dungeons are just a mindless AoE fest with little challenge, and they then become irrevelent as you acquire raid gear.

How it wasn't implemented earlier is the question. Blizzard finally adapted to making dungeons relevant throughout an entire expansion while still dealing with ilvl inflation.

[tehealadin]

Gearing up has never been easier, and the gear has never meant less.

In my experience I would disagree with that, but I appreciate it is just my experience and I might just be unlucky, I wouldn't be surprised if someone could produce a graph showing the speed of gearing across expansions that show my experience is an outlier, I accept this is possible, so please don't take this as me saying "YOU TALK BULLSHIT!", I am not.

I get loads of gear, yes, but the vast majority gets sold or sharded because it is useless. I've tried gearing some alts, my DK tank, hunter and holy paladin, all hit barriers very quickly, I only really try with my DK now. Belt and legs, those are mostly what I get, the odd pair of gloves too, but mainly belt and legs. He is only ilvl 456, it took me a month (closer to a month and a half) to get from 450 to 456. Like seriously, my drop rate of belt and legs is getting insane, I was actually considering getting in touch with blizz to see if this was a bug, RNGeezus shouldn't be punishing me like this. The only time I don't get them are on world quests, and they are worse than what I have.

I have played since the end of vanilla/start of TBC. By this stage in the expansion, I usually have a few good geared characters, not best of the best, but good, I'd always have a good geared tank/healer and at least 1 pew pew. This has been the worst expac for me in terms of gearing. Only got 1 good geared toon. I don't know if the grind in AP and other things has maybe stalled it, though even in Legion I had 4 good geared toons (a tank/healer and 2 DPS). Maybe I am being unfair to the game, and maybe I am not pushing myself enough this expansion and this has skewed my perception of things and I am just moaning. This is the first one I haven't actively raided in, and I am not feeling it the same as I did in previous ones, I accept that this might be twisting my view on things. And then when I start getting into it, fucking legs drop. More legs.

[onesBronson]

You know you can get a 440 weapon by just capping conquest points once?

Its a 1 hand axe for my conquest reward. Not exactly useful unless I'm windwalker, and have another 1 hand to go along with it. And lastly, they're not exactly tank weapons, since equipping 1 hands locks you out from certain spec abilities. (Ex: Windwalker can only use Fists of Fury when dual wielding.) Soooo yeah...its useless.

[Mardux]

Its a 1 hand axe for my conquest reward. Not exactly useful unless I'm windwalker, and have another 1 hand to go along with it. And lastly, they're not exactly tank weapons, since equipping 1 hands locks you out from certain spec abilities. (Ex: Windwalker can only use Fists of Fury when dual wielding.) Soooo yeah...its useless.

If you're talking about what you're shown in the lfg panel, that's an example weapon. When you cap conquest and turn the quest in you're given a choice of weapons.

[Greyvax]

Probably the best thing.

People wanted dungeons to be relevant. They had something going with the challenge modes in MoP but many didn't bother since the rewards were cosmetic only.

[onesBronson]

If you're talking about what you're shown in the lfg panel, that's an example weapon. When you cap conquest and turn the quest in you're given a choice of weapons.

Unfortunately my sub already ran out days ago before I posted this, and with money being tight I won't be able resub to grind for it. Shame since I was hoping to replace my weapon long before that happened, but oh well.