Poll: Should multiboxing be allowed?

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  1. #341
    Quote Originally Posted by Yizu View Post
    Ya i know, coz people defending it keep saying it like that over and over. Then im going to reply with something like "if it does not normally work like that, and you use a 3rd party program to do it for you, THAT is automation"

    Can we stop repeating this argument over and over, not everyone is going to blindly see it the way you do.

    If i buy a new computer, install windows, install wow, open 10 instances of wow, if i press something on my keyboard is it going to control all 10 instances of wow? NO! I could individually control them 1 by 1, OR i can install a 3rd party program to just send all my inputs for me FOR REDUCED HUMAN INTERACTION which is the definition of automation.

    Now do you see it?
    Nope cuz its not reduced human interaction. It would be 1 button to be pressed then the automation would incur, botting. There is alway an input being press for every skill used.

  2. #342
    No its so bad for the game and it's gaining popularity.
    Hi Sephurik

  3. #343
    Quote Originally Posted by LanToaster View Post
    I´ve literally posted you the Definition of a Macro, and it doesnt send the Input several times after another. It sends the Input to everyone Simultanius.

    Its not: "Window 1: Button A, Window 2: Button B" Its. "Button A to all windows"

    And, if you split the Cable of your Keyboard and send the Commands to two PCs instead of one, its not a Makro, it still relays the Output to two inputs.

    WoW, how Recent, I´m sure nothing ever changed over 7 Years.

    I didnt dodge any question.

    I answered that already:
    You can use all kinds of Macros you want that are Possible to achieve with the Ingame API.

    Doesnt matter, this is not Related to MultiBoxing.
    If Motion Tracking is allowed, you can use Motion Tracking to controll all your Characters at once, if you relay the Input to all your Screens.

    If you are not Active for 20-30minutes you are getting logged out. Simple as that.

    Oo I dont see why this should not be allowed. You are technically playing your Character.
    But I also dont see the relation to MultiBoxing here, nor any relation to Botting.

    The Question would be rather: Why would you want to set that up, and risk beeing (falsly) reported and banned as Bot?
    Because while you may be not Botting, it looks like it, and probably every investigation would lead to that conclusion.

    You did not provide any Question that is not answered already, nor anything related to actuall Botting.

    EDIT:
    Btw, your Questions sound like: "Hurr, I want to Bot, and I need as much Information to not get caught"
    You posted Definition for macro, which fully supports multiboxer programs to be made with macros. In computing when you send information to multiple places works exactly like I described, sends to one place and then continues to others. This happens fast enough for you to feel its instantaneous, but in reality its not.

    A splitter is a splitter, it splits your input on a hardware level. You can't use a splitter to get two inputs to the same PC but 2 different windows, thats where you need to have software level macro to do that sequence of changing windows and transmitting the input for you.

    Plenty of things have changed over the course of WoW, actual GM whisper window is one of them (it wasn't always there) but it still is a whisper. But hey I'm glad you had nothing else to say to any of the points!

    If only Ingame macros are allowed, then Multiboxer programs (and any remapping, macro etc. software used outside the game) are banworthy, according to your logic - yet you don't seem to believe your own logic, so clearly there is something shady going on.

    Input types and how they are relayed to the game is definitely related to Multiboxing. If you can use 3rd party software to send the input to the game, then my example is legal.

    So game activity is the only way to determine whether a player is active or not? I guess you can't complaing about bots then, since they're always active.

    The relation is, you're basically "botting" (with the only different being that you send the inputs via unorthodox methods) that are considered legal within Multiboxing.
    And why would I be falsely banned if its all legal and theres nothing wrong in it? Unless its actually wrong and would be considered as "botting". As for the reason, it is basically free money since you can do it whenever wherever with very little actual input.

    There were questions not answered (and still are in the thread) and now you got new ones to answer to. So instead of trying to claim I want a bot you should realize how gray area Multiboxing and its use of 3rd party programs is and how by following the same rules you can make a legal bot.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Drusin View Post
    I'm unaware of the areas where I'm interested in doing something that I don't know about. I'm 100% certain everything I care about is within the rules. Anything I'm uncertain about is shit I have no interest in doing in the first place and only have a discovery channel curiosity in it.
    Yup, so you don't know the rules nor how they can be used to "bot" legally. You just do simple things that are allowed and leave it at that. I guess theres no more input to be had from you on the subject.

  4. #344
    I've tried Multi-boxing, and it was a fun experiment. Once you get the keys mapped correctly leveling some toons can be a blast.

  5. #345
    Quote Originally Posted by lappee View Post
    Yup, so you don't know the rules nor how they can be used to "bot" legally. You just do simple things that are allowed and leave it at that.
    Yep

    I guess theres no more input to be had from you on the subject.
    Maybe, maybe not, keep saying stuff in this thread and we'll see how it goes
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  6. #346
    Quote Originally Posted by Usernameforforums View Post
    Nope cuz its not reduced human interaction. It would be 1 button to be pressed then the automation would incur, botting. There is alway an input being press for every skill used.
    Thats not exactly true though. You press one button and 10 (or however many clients you have open) actions incur. For your statement to be closer to truth, Multiboxin program would only have to switch the windows after every keypress and you would have to press the key 10 times (or however many clients you have open) in order to get the input to all clients. And yes 10 is not the same as 1, in case that wasn't clear.

    Even if Blizzard allows that kind of automation does not make your statement true. If you added "per client" then your statement would be true, since thats where Blizzard draws the line. All the other aspects of the case are still very vague and a gray area - probably because they don't want to make a decision before absolutely necessary.

  7. #347
    Quote Originally Posted by lappee View Post
    Thats not exactly true though. You press one button and 10 (or however many clients you have open) actions incur. For your statement to be closer to truth, Multiboxin program would only have to switch the windows after every keypress and you would have to press the key 10 times (or however many clients you have open) in order to get the input to all clients. And yes 10 is not the same as 1, in case that wasn't clear.

    Even if Blizzard allows that kind of automation does not make your statement true. If you added "per client" then your statement would be true, since thats where Blizzard draws the line. All the other aspects of the case are still very vague and a gray area - probably because they don't want to make a decision before absolutely necessary.
    My point is, its not automation. Blizzards definition of automation is starting up the bot and having the ability to be afk while the character is off doing things on its own. Multiboxing is completely different and is not defined under the term automation or automatic. Multiboxing is required to have human interaction, therefore not automatic. This is why blizzard had left multiboxing alone for 16 years.

    Also, try out multiboxing sometime. Youll see that it’s more difficult than you think.
    Last edited by Usernameforforums; 2020-06-23 at 04:58 AM.

  8. #348
    Quote Originally Posted by Usernameforforums View Post
    My point is, its not automation. Blizzards definition of automation is starting up the bot and having the ability to be afk while the character is off doing things on its own. Multiboxing is completely different and is not defined under the term automation or automatic. Multiboxing is required to have human interaction, therefore not automatic. This is why blizzard had left multiboxing alone for 16 years.

    Also, try out multiboxing sometime. Youll see that it’s more difficult than you think.
    Blizzards "definition" doesn't match the actual definition. Thats why its more accurate to say Blizzard allows the type of automation that follows the guideline of "one key press per action per client". Multiboxing normally relies on automation - sending the inputs from all adjacent clients instead of just one. If you did it without those 3rd party automation softwares then you'd have to alt tab between clients to send the inputs by pressing the key multiple times.

    It really is that simple, and Blizzard allows it. Problem comes when people start taking it further to, following the same guidelines but still being closer to an actual bot than anything else.

    Also I have multiboxed plenty, not with 10's of accounts but a few - which is rather standard at top end, it isn't difficult at all.

  9. #349

    Exclamation

    Quote Originally Posted by lappee View Post
    You posted Definition for macro, which fully supports multiboxer programs to be made with macros. In computing when you send information to multiple places works exactly like I described, sends to one place and then continues to others. This happens fast enough for you to feel its instantaneous, but in reality its not.
    Just because you can incorporate complex Makros into MultiBoxing Software doesnt make it allowed to do so. If thats your Reasoning, running any Process besides WoW should be prohibited. Because any Program can potentially include Makros.

    Quote Originally Posted by lappee View Post
    A splitter is a splitter, it splits your input on a hardware level. You can't use a splitter to get two inputs to the same PC but 2 different windows, thats where you need to have software level macro to do that sequence of changing windows and transmitting the input for you.
    Remapping Keys are not Macros, ...


    Quote Originally Posted by lappee View Post
    Plenty of things have changed over the course of WoW, actual GM whisper window is one of them (it wasn't always there) but it still is a whisper. But hey I'm glad you had nothing else to say to any of the points!
    Why should I say anything to 7 Year old Sources?


    Quote Originally Posted by lappee View Post
    If only Ingame macros are allowed, then Multiboxer programs (and any remapping, macro etc. software used outside the game) are banworthy, according to your logic - yet you don't seem to believe your own logic, so clearly there is something shady going on.
    MultiBoxing Programs are not Makros and remapping of keys are not Makros.

    Your KeyboardLayout is called "KeyboardLayout, not "KeyboardMakro". Is that so hard?
    Just because you can use a Makro to remap Keys, (Why the Fuck would you do that anyway?)

    Quote Originally Posted by lappee View Post
    Input types and how they are relayed to the game is definitely related to Multiboxing. If you can use 3rd party software to send the input to the game, then my example is legal.
    No, Input periphery is an entire different thing. If any Given Input Periphery is Forbidden, its Forbidden regardless of MultiBoxing or not. MultiBoxing in itself is a Specific Rule with Specific Conditions, they dont override any other Rules you have to abide.


    Quote Originally Posted by lappee View Post
    So game activity is the only way to determine whether a player is active or not? I guess you can't complaing about bots then, since they're always active.
    Sorry, I guess I missread your Question, I thought you wanted to know how active the Character needs to be in order to be allowed to stay online. But the other Question also makes no sense as its already Answered like a thousand times:

    I´ll formulate a single line that outlines the MultiBoxing Rule for you, so you wont get confused with many Lines Much text.

    Quote Originally Posted by lappee View Post
    The relation is, you're basically "botting" (with the only different being that you send the inputs via unorthodox methods) that are considered legal within Multiboxing.
    And why would I be falsely banned if its all legal and theres nothing wrong in it? Unless its actually wrong and would be considered as "botting". As for the reason, it is basically free money since you can do it whenever wherever with very little actual input.
    Botting and MultiBoxing are two seperate Topics, just because you may have MultiBoxing software that allows you to Bot, and overstep the Rules (dunno if the Software actually Supports that), it can still allow MultiBoxing and disallow Botting. I dunno why that is so hard to Understand.

    Quote Originally Posted by lappee View Post
    There were questions not answered (and still are in the thread) and now you got new ones to answer to. So instead of trying to claim I want a bot you should realize how gray area Multiboxing and its use of 3rd party programs is and how by following the same rules you can make a legal bot.
    You cannot make a Bot within the Rules of WoW, and you posted 3 Questions which I answered. Post more, and I´ll answer them slowly for you.

    But to comprise the relevant rules into one Sentence:
    Every Action your Character makes needs to be Initiated by a persons Input, you may not use one Input to do more than one action on each Client, you may not use a script to decide which action/command to send to a WoW Instance

    So, are there still Questions you cant seem to Grasp?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by lappee View Post
    It really is that simple, and Blizzard allows it. Problem comes when people start taking it further to, following the same guidelines but still being closer to an actual bot than anything else.
    It would be a very sad Bot where you need to constantly mash a Button that can only Perform one Action.
    (Because thats how far you can come within the guidelines)

  10. #350
    Quote Originally Posted by Zogarth View Post
    Do you know how easy it is to make a new email? Do you seriously think this in any way will work as a barrier?
    easy, but an annoying hassle to have to juggle like 40 e-mails.

  11. #351
    Quote Originally Posted by LanToaster View Post
    Just because you can incorporate complex Makros into MultiBoxing Software doesnt make it allowed to do so. If thats your Reasoning, running any Process besides WoW should be prohibited. Because any Program can potentially include Makros.

    Remapping Keys are not Macros, ...

    Why should I say anything to 7 Year old Sources?

    MultiBoxing Programs are not Makros and remapping of keys are not Makros.

    Your KeyboardLayout is called "KeyboardLayout, not "KeyboardMakro". Is that so hard?
    Just because you can use a Makro to remap Keys, (Why the Fuck would you do that anyway?)

    No, Input periphery is an entire different thing. If any Given Input Periphery is Forbidden, its Forbidden regardless of MultiBoxing or not. MultiBoxing in itself is a Specific Rule with Specific Conditions, they dont override any other Rules you have to abide.

    Sorry, I guess I missread your Question, I thought you wanted to know how active the Character needs to be in order to be allowed to stay online. But the other Question also makes no sense as its already Answered like a thousand times:

    I´ll formulate a single line that outlines the MultiBoxing Rule for you, so you wont get confused with many Lines Much text.

    Botting and MultiBoxing are two seperate Topics, just because you may have MultiBoxing software that allows you to Bot, and overstep the Rules (dunno if the Software actually Supports that), it can still allow MultiBoxing and disallow Botting. I dunno why that is so hard to Understand.

    You cannot make a Bot within the Rules of WoW, and you posted 3 Questions which I answered. Post more, and I´ll answer them slowly for you.

    But to comprise the relevant rules into one Sentence:
    Every Action your Character makes needs to be Initiated by a persons Input, you may not use one Input to do more than one action on each Client, you may not use a script to decide which action/command to send to a WoW Instance

    So, are there still Questions you cant seem to Grasp?

    - - - Updated - - -

    It would be a very sad Bot where you need to constantly mash a Button that can only Perform one Action.
    (Because thats how far you can come within the guidelines)
    Exactly, any outside program that gives inputs to WoW can be used for it. Theres very little difference between a bot program and your Multiboxing software in terms of how it inputs data to WoW as it isn't done directly through keyboard and mouse.

    Yes, even remapping keys is a macro. A very basic one but still one. You get native input that your program changes to another through a macro. If you remap your keys within WoW, then thats all fine but using 3rd party programs, by definition, can be banworthy. Blizzard likely won't do anything about it, but the option is always open.

    Because its a source that you clearly can't argue with, oh wait that explains why you didn't comment anything on it. Gotcha.

    Input pheripherals use different types of software to send the input ingame, which is where it becomes relevant to multiboxing softwares.
    If there are specific rules, then why can't you answer the question specifically? All you do is "Oh this isn't a macro because I don't want it to be! even if it fits the definition perfectly, its not a macro because I say so!"

    Botting and Multiboxing are different things, but they're close enough that you can be in the gray area - which is the whole point of the conversation in case you didn't get it yet.

    Yes, still the same questions apply. I'll try to summarize them into one major question.
    What types of inputs are allowed?

    It would actually be rather good bot, since you can just have the input be your breathing and still be within the guidelines.

  12. #352
    Quote Originally Posted by RoKPaNda View Post
    Of course it should be allowed. It's been allowed all these years, and it's not hurting anything, least of all Blizzard's pockets, so why should it change now? This is one of those things that this community loves to whine about even though it has zero impact on them whatsoever.

    - - - Updated - - -



    I mean define third party software? Are we going to ban streamers next because that uses third party software, or your mouse drivers, or what? The third party software that multiboxers use doesn't break the rules on botting. It's still 1 action per key press. You could create or buy a hardware solution that does the same basic thing that the software does tbh.
    Theres key differences and you know it.

    Mouse drivers are universally required and have nothing to do with warcraft. Streamers are using a software to cast their screens, it has 0 impact on game play or game mechanics.

    It is a 1 action per skill, but its still a piece of software working that impacts the game. I was thinking about this last night and while I agree multiboxers are no where near the issue they were compared to now. It still brings issues to the game, economy issues with having dominance over gathering herbs as an example. Maybe not as much of an issue on high pops, but med and low it can cause problems

    Like I said before, I'm not overly fussed about it but I still consider it wrong
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  13. #353
    Quote Originally Posted by lappee View Post
    Yes, still the same questions apply. I'll try to summarize them into one major question.
    What types of inputs are allowed?
    Ask that in the Blizzard Forum. There is afaik no source that Specifies that you may Breath in your Microphone to controll your Character, because no one asks such stupid questions.

    People like you, want to know the Specifics of the rules to Cheat without breaking the rules.

    You dont need to ask "But I can make a Legal bot", not you cannot. No matter what Input type you use.
    If you intend to "Not play the game, and have your character do stuff", you are Botting.
    If you use a MultiBox software to play the game within the scope Blizzard allows, you are fine.

    There is no Gray area. Either you Bot, or you dont.

  14. #354
    Quote Originally Posted by LanToaster View Post
    Ask that in the Blizzard Forum. There is afaik no source that Specifies that you may Breath in your Microphone to controll your Character, because no one asks such stupid questions.

    People like you, want to know the Specifics of the rules to Cheat without breaking the rules.

    You dont need to ask "But I can make a Legal bot", not you cannot. No matter what Input type you use.
    If you intend to "Not play the game, and have your character do stuff", you are Botting.
    If you use a MultiBox software to play the game within the scope Blizzard allows, you are fine.

    There is no Gray area. Either you Bot, or you dont.
    I'm not interested in botting, I'm just showing you how one can legally bot because of multiboxing and how it still is a gray area.
    Sure we can just not call it "botting" but rather "advanced multiboxing", it still does the same thing. After all it wouldn't technically be botting because you're actively sending the inputs.
    (you'd be amazed how good "bots" one can do with addons and program that sends mouse coordinates to the screen (such as every multiboxing program))

    What multiboxing and botting both have incommon is that you try to achieve more by doing less, actual botting is just superior at that. You go and pick up a herb, yet you get 10x (or however many clients you have) worth of herbs. It can easily be compared to actual botting where you press X button and you get many herbs by going afk.

    But I don't want multiboxing to be bannable, but I do want such benefits to be more or less removed. If you like playing multiple characters at once to have easier time "soloing" achievements that require full groups or to level multiple character faster etc. then go ahead and do that.
    All the issues can easily be fixed by making nodes either personal (and by that it means every character has different spawns) or make nodes only collectable with 1 character (like they used to be, when multiboxing wasn't so mainstream) so that your multiboxing doesn't affect the economy. After all it has all the same downsides to it as botting does.

  15. #355
    Quote Originally Posted by lappee View Post
    Blizzards "definition" doesn't match the actual definition. Thats why its more accurate to say Blizzard allows the type of automation that follows the guideline of "one key press per action per client". Multiboxing normally relies on automation - sending the inputs from all adjacent clients instead of just one. If you did it without those 3rd party automation softwares then you'd have to alt tab between clients to send the inputs by pressing the key multiple times.

    It really is that simple, and Blizzard allows it. Problem comes when people start taking it further to, following the same guidelines but still being closer to an actual bot than anything else.

    Also I have multiboxed plenty, not with 10's of accounts but a few - which is rather standard at top end, it isn't difficult at all.
    No. You’re skewing “reduced human interaction” which is vague and grey at best to meet you ends. 3 words of the definition don’t define its entirety.

  16. #356
    Quote Originally Posted by Dastreus View Post
    easy, but an annoying hassle to have to juggle like 40 e-mails.
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  17. #357
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    Hell no.

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  18. #358
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rotted View Post
    Theres key differences and you know it.

    Mouse drivers are universally required and have nothing to do with warcraft. Streamers are using a software to cast their screens, it has 0 impact on game play or game mechanics.

    It is a 1 action per skill, but its still a piece of software working that impacts the game. I was thinking about this last night and while I agree multiboxers are no where near the issue they were compared to now. It still brings issues to the game, economy issues with having dominance over gathering herbs as an example. Maybe not as much of an issue on high pops, but med and low it can cause problems

    Like I said before, I'm not overly fussed about it but I still consider it wrong
    Do you think Addons shouldn't be allowed? It's the same thing, you can accomplish the same stuff in-game without them but they streamline the process. You can multibox without any software but it's a lot clunkier, and you'd be doing a lot fewer characters if you're one of those extreme multiboxers, but if you're just playing a couple of characters in easy content like WQs / farming / etc you could still do it without the software. I did RAF characters like that once upon a time.

    It's fine to not like it, totally fine actually, but after 15+ years in this game and several more years in MMOs in general it isn't going anywhere lol.
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  19. #359
    Quote Originally Posted by Logwyn View Post
    How does there being a multi-boxer keep you from gathering herbs? Same thing if there was a party of people flying around gathering herbs.
    There's such a thing as nodes being depleted and disappearing.

  20. #360
    when did this thread turns into a "is multiboxing = Botting" thread? xD

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