"Forced" or "Mandatory" covenants

[kaminaris]

so i should suck it up because others dont like it

but they shouldnt suck it up because i dont like it

ive seen the arguments against it and other than "it breaks my immersion" i dont see much of a problem with giving every single player extra choice

if you play for rp stuff then go for rp servers

You kinda do because thats ultimately blizzard game and they can do pretty much anything they want.
Like getting rid of players that don't like these type of features.

[razorpax]

You kinda do because thats ultimately blizzard game and they can do pretty much anything they want.
Like getting rid of players that don't like these type of features.

thats the same exact argument used any time a change is made in the game but if god forbid they make a change that the people who say that line hates they hit the forums

this has been the case of BFAs entire timeline

now when shadowlands drops theres two scenarios for me

1. abilities are locked which is fine because i play a WW so the two good abilities (they are all shit but these are less shit) are venthyr and night fae and i originally wanted venthyr. I have enough alts to do other covenants with the only annoyance being the inevitable nerfs that hit the ability just like they hit talents but unlike swapping talents you cant do this one easily back and forth.

2. abilities are swappable and i go kyrian because of the armor but take the best two abilities swapping when i go OS so i can always be at 100% of my player power and not feel punished for a choice that is marketed with 90% story and cosmetic rewards but the 10% is gameplay.

tldr after BFA i can handle shit systems as long as the content is good

[Echocho]

In a game where warlocks, shadow priests and freaking death knights can join the "good" faction, to the point that warlocks can summon their demons in the middle of Stormwind without any repercussions; where you can't join an actually evil faction; where you can change your spec with a single click; where you are an Archmage/Archdruid/Highlord or w/e, but you still have to collect X bear asses for a random NPC in a lost island off the coast of Gilneas... Coming with a cliche answer such as MUH RPG is rich. Really rich

Just because a RPG is lacking in RPG elements isn't an excuse for stripping away every single RPG element and never introduce new ones. Quite the opposite it's a reason to try to improve and introduce many many more ones in order to get back on track.

[razorpax]

you guys remember when a very similar thing happened in bfa....i remember




forum man would be ashamed

[VinceVega]

Just because a RPG is lacking in RPG elements isn't an excuse for stripping away every single RPG element and never introduce new ones. Quite the opposite it's a reason to try to improve and introduce many many more ones in order to get back on track.

Back on track to what? That is a fundamental change to the game. The only comparison is aldor and scryer whos impact has been minimal as the gear was nearly useless after a few week and the glyphs (?) have been both good but not OP.

There has never been such a huge decision which can screw over your entire char for the complete expansion if you choose wrong. (choose one, switch, will never get the original without HUUUUUUge effort, if blizz says it is much effort to switch back it is probably not doable by a normal player)

In a SP game i would not mind it but this is not a SP game. You will always be compared to other no matter the difficulty you play on unless you only play by yourself an then there are way better SP games for you without shitting on the last good MMORPG out there.

[h4rr0d]

you guys remember when a very similar thing happened in bfa....i remember




forum man would be ashamed

Wait, gear swapping in M+ was a thing in Legion? Man, one forgets things so quickly...

[Toybox]

You speak as if Ion is a moronic, lying, incompetent leader unfit for the job.

Meanwhile not only he's making good choices for Shadowlands but also he manages to keep you and lots of complainers in this very thread playing a game they hate. Everyone else is content with the game or playing something else.

The guy is a genius.

Don't forget to pre-order Shadowlands. The expensive edition.

Or maybe "vote" with your wallet this time - he won't be fired until the subscribers plummet, but y'all keep paying and playing.

I don't think Ion is a genius by any means, but I do think his creative boundaries are greatly limited by metrics & psychologically driven stats that he's told to adhere to. Ion has played this game for 15 years & it's very clear that he loves it dearly - There is absolutely no way systems like the initial iterations of Azerite were his perfect idea alone.

I truly believe that, if he were given full creative control to make an expansion, that he'd make something rather spectacular. That said, given the limits of anyone in his role surely has to deal with, I'm glad, at the very least, someone who loves the game has that position.

(Still, BfA was horrible, and if it weren't for the people I've spent more than a decade playing with, I wouldn't have returned from an almost expansion long break).

[DemonDays]

Also, disconnecting abilities from covenant would feel like adding an extra talent row.

Heaven forbid we get a new talent row hey?


It's not like we've had a single new row or single new BASELINE ability in over 5 years hey?

- - - Updated - - -

Just because a RPG is lacking in RPG elements isn't an excuse for stripping away every single RPG element and never introduce new ones. Quite the opposite it's a reason to try to improve and introduce many many more ones in order to get back on track.

Ion doesn't get to strip nearly every single RPG component out of the game in favour of disgusting grinds, time-gating and excessive RNG casino level gameplay.

Then all of a sudden flip and try to add a single new RPG element back into the game. Which is just a thinly veiled massive expansion long grind. They want you to waste your time swapping covenants when they inevitably nerf things into the ground.

[Unholyground]

As long as they don't allow people to see which ones you have chosen outside of the rewards that comes with each one (mogs/pets etc). I plan on using the Fox one because mobility on a low cooldown is sick for Paladin for example.

[Echocho]

Ion doesn't get to strip nearly every single RPG component out of the game in favour of disgusting grinds, time-gating and excessive RNG casino level gameplay.

Then all of a sudden flip and try to add a single new RPG element back into the game. Which is just a thinly veiled massive expansion long grind. They want you to waste your time swapping covenants when they inevitably nerf things into the ground.

So if you make mistakes you're never allowed to correct them?

It's pretty apparent that he think's removing rpg elements was a big mistake in a rpg and that they have to start course correcting. If this is the first step back in the right direction it's very good news, WoW needs to become a proper RPG.

[eillas]

Poll results are in.

https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wo...ovenant/553508

Venthyr is the winner, but not by much. Night Fae is only 1% behind. So unless the poll is rigged there's a good chunk of players that don't think the Venthyr teleport is mandatory.

Thoughts?

I voted solely for aesthetic

[SirBeef]

So if you make mistakes you're never allowed to correct them?

It's pretty apparent that he think's removing rpg elements was a big mistake in a rpg and that they have to start course correcting. If this is the first step back in the right direction it's very good news, WoW needs to become a proper RPG.

It's also apparent thise against having to make this choice don't want meaningful choices or RPG elements. They clearly only want to be the best at every facet in the gsme they choose to participate.

While yes, it's great to just swap talents out on a whim to make a fight easier or to do better in BGs but it's bad design to allow that. Many of these same people have been criticizing WoWs direction away from its RPG(lite) roots but are kicking up a storm over them being brought back at the notion that they will be seriously handicapped in other areas if they choose one for raiding.

[LorDC]

Also, disconnecting abilities from covenant would feel like adding an extra talent row.

And this is bad, why?

For some players, seeing someone in kyrian covenant use a blood teleport or a bone shield is a problem RPG-wise and kills their 'immersion'

There is basillion of other immersion-breaking things in the game. If it is immersion breaking for you to use other-covenant abilities, then don't use them. As for other players it isn't any more immersion-breaking than slut-mogs or them having "Illiidaan" as a nickname.

[Elias01]

And this is bad, why?


There is basillion of other immersion-breaking things in the game. If it is immersion breaking for you to use other-covenant abilities, then don't use them. As for other players it isn't any more immersion-breaking than slut-mogs or them having "Illiidaan" as a nickname.

It removes meaingfull choice and being in Night Fae covenant with Necrolord ability doesnt make exactly sense?

[Hellafurious]

It will 100% cost u pvp ranking if u pick the worse/worst option if that one was good for raiding/m+

Making your character unique dosnt mean its good.

If you think for one second that LFG for PvP won't have "Venthyr only" or need DK (have Maldraxxus). Or, what if your guild is running a M+ and they all have Venthyr but you? You feel like a turd when they can skip packs with ease but because they brought you their run is going to be tougher? Covenants as they are look awful. Mainly, (imo) most abilities for certain specs are very bad. I can't find a single Enhancement ability that looks fun. And for my DK some look great for tanking but bad for DPS. I very much dislike Covenants as they are now

[LorDC]

It removes meaingfull choice and being in Night Fae covenant with Necrolord ability doesnt make exactly sense?

Do I understand you correctly that without tied-in gameplay powers the choice between covenants is meaningless? Because otherwise why would using other-covenant abilities remove meaningful choice?
Then, by this logic either immersion itself is meaningless or covenant visuals and stories do not contribute to it.
And using other-covenant abilities makes as much sense as player holding three great artifacts in Legion and somehow being master of all specs at the same time. Also, during the actual SL storyline our character gets to use abilities from all of the covenants.

[Elias01]

Do I understand you correctly that without tied-in gameplay powers the choice between covenants is meaningless? Because otherwise why would using other-covenant abilities remove meaningful choice?
Then, by this logic either immersion itself is meaningless or covenant visuals and stories do not contribute to it.
And using other-covenant abilities makes as much sense as player holding three great artifacts in Legion and somehow being master of all specs at the same time. Also, during the actual SL storyline our character gets to use abilities from all of the covenants.

Yes getting rid of power choices will make covenants less meaingfull. You are right artifact system in legion was stupid and should never return. Just becouse there was some really bad system in Legion doesnt excuse that Blizzard is allowed make stupid desing choices for future expansions.

https://youtu.be/t5lWxo3rjvM?t=1064 This sums it up nicely.

[Echocho]

https://youtu.be/t5lWxo3rjvM?t=1064 This sums it up nicely.

That's kinda exactly the point. If your game has enough elements that are difficult to change then the community will adapt around people not being the same. When you can swap freely then you're an asshole if you're not adapting to the situation.

[Donimic]

Spoken like a real pro, I just don't have the motivation to do that shit anymore.. Legion was my only real furrow into m+, I managed world #1 for my class on m+ and did mythic raiding too for the Nighthold. But the Night elf lore got me really motivated to play and I knocked had till luck came my way I got all the best legendaries, and some of the best minor set pieces, tinkets - and then I burned out, or rather 7.2 was shite, they cut my fave race's involvement out of their own historical location to give class order halls a larger role - I was so annoyed. I think I gave up on wow then.

BFA was hardly played, until January, when I played it hard until about a month ago. And shadowlands looks interesting, but it's lore and relevance don't interest me at all. Not the way Legion did, race story progression combined with great gameplay and very good Nelf development is the only thing that might make me peak at Warcraft again.

Enjoy your min maxing bro - gonna use my spunk for much much higher and far more real things going forward.

I'm going to call bullshit on this one. The mindset required to be #1 in M+ and high end raiding is completely different than giving a shit about how active your race is. Also, an Alliance player/group has never been rank 1 in M+ in any season beyond MAYBE the first few hours of the patch, which is irrelevant anyways. Either provide proof of your absurd claims or stfu.

There is absolute nothing wrong with the casual player base selecting the RP/pretty covenant, but I am sick and tired of people talking out their ass in order to make their opinion relevant. Play however the heck you want but don't bitch to the forum in 6-9 months when you don't get invited to a 5-man or raid.

[Mace]

I'm going to call bullshit on this one. The mindset required to be #1 in M+ and high end raiding is completely different than giving a shit about how active your race is. Also, an Alliance player/group has never been rank 1 in M+ in any season beyond MAYBE the first few hours of the patch, which is irrelevant anyways. Either provide proof of your absurd claims or stfu.

There is absolute nothing wrong with the casual player base selecting the RP/pretty covenant, but I am sick and tired of people talking out their ass in order to make their opinion relevant. Play however the heck you want but don't bitch to the forum in 6-9 months when you don't get invited to a 5-man or raid.

You're young, with time you will discover that interests, and focuses change, and people have very different motivations for pursuing the things they do.