Is Shadowlands redeeming WoW for you after BFA?

[Doffen]

I'm going to double down on this one, I think too many people forgot how horrible Legion was.

"Most" people would disagree that Legion was terrible compared to BfA. And people don't forget. No one forgot, people remember it was rough in the start, people remember the 4 limit on legendaries that lasted 10 weeks. People remember that AP only counted for one spec.

But people also remember how blizzard smoothed all those things after during the expansion. From 7.1.5 they increased the sources of getting legendaries from(vendors, more raids=more chances) and in 7.2, which was a crap patch overall, but what it did was to make the AP grind non existent. 1 hour of WQs or similar activities, your weapon was filled up. And they made this easier and easier during the expansion. Then you come to BfA. Very easy to grind at launch. Then they realized Azerite Armor didn't work. So they added azerite armor grind from mythic+. Full set? Yeah, with rng, or targetable with 24-26 weeks of waiting. Then they added Essences. A fine idea. But it was another grind, on top of the regrind of higher item level Azerite pieces. 8.3? Corruption and cloak grind, with new essences to grind, to regrind Azerite Armor. You forgot?

Start to see a pattern here? During Legion they made the grind easier from start to finish. In BfA they went another route. Opposite. The grind started easy, but ended up as tedious as the start of the Legion grind. Though personally upgrading the weapon was way more fun giving your character's class/spec upgrades rather than being boosted by mother earth.

I remember the dozens of thread on forums, people all over the place complaining about legendaries (and they were right). I remember top level guilds actually leveling and gearing up to 5 copies of the same character to have a better chance of dropping your BiS legendary on one of them.

Yeah, which only lasted the first tier. Because getting legendaries and getting the weapon to full power was no problem after that. You know where guilds did that again? In 8.3 with corruption. You must have forgotten.

Having your BiS instead of a low tier cross-class legendary was huge, like really huge. Up to 10-20% DPS difference.

Having BiS corruption is a lot worse. Having a BiS instead of a low tier corruption is even bigger. A 20-40% dps in differences. Not only that, you needed to get several pieces or that high rank 3 BiS corruption on a high item level piece. Corruption enhanced every issue with Legendaries. It isn't even Bad Luck Protection on it. Seems you forgot that too.

Legion was also the first expansion which removes one third of everyone spells, nuked CC all around (RiP Rogues having Gouge and Garrote in Sublety spec, the list is huge). Instead it gave you more pewpewpew dps power with 0 gameplay thoughts. The whole setting was more Diablo than Warcraft, everyone was the "Champion" of their order.

They also added abilities and talents through the artifact weapon. So like any other expansion. What did they do in BfA? Removed all that, but added close to nothing. It's why class design is so shit in BfA, because they failed to make the specs properly coming from Legion.

You know, people don't forget just because they have another opinion than you. Don't forget that.

[Jshadowhunter]

The writing was never really good, read a good book.

Yes, but it was never THIS bad before.

[kaminaris]

"Most" people would disagree that Legion was terrible compared to BfA. And people don't forget. No one forgot, people remember it was rough in the start, people remember the 4 limit on legendaries that lasted 10 weeks. People remember that AP only counted for one spec.

But people also remember how blizzard smoothed all those things after during the expansion. From 7.1.5 they increased the sources of getting legendaries from(vendors, more raids=more chances) and in 7.2, which was a crap patch overall, but what it did was to make the AP grind non existent. 1 hour of WQs or similar activities, your weapon was filled up. And they made this easier and easier during the expansion. Then you come to BfA. Very easy to grind at launch. Then they realized Azerite Armor didn't work. So they added azerite armor grind from mythic+. Full set? Yeah, with rng, or targetable with 24-26 weeks of waiting. Then they added Essences. A fine idea. But it was another grind, on top of the regrind of higher item level Azerite pieces. 8.3? Corruption and cloak grind, with new essences to grind, to regrind Azerite Armor. You forgot?

Start to see a pattern here? During Legion they made the grind easier from start to finish. In BfA they went another route. Opposite. The grind started easy, but ended up as tedious as the start of the Legion grind. Though personally upgrading the weapon was way more fun giving your character's class/spec upgrades rather than being boosted by mother earth.


Yeah, which only lasted the first tier. Because getting legendaries and getting the weapon to full power was no problem after that. You know where guilds did that again? In 8.3 with corruption. You must have forgotten.


Having BiS corruption is a lot worse. Having a BiS instead of a low tier corruption is even bigger. A 20-40% dps in differences. Not only that, you needed to get several pieces or that high rank 3 BiS corruption on a high item level piece. Corruption enhanced every issue with Legendaries. It isn't even Bad Luck Protection on it. Seems you forgot that too.


They also added abilities and talents through the artifact weapon. So like any other expansion. What did they do in BfA? Removed all that, but added close to nothing. It's why class design is so shit in BfA, because they failed to make the specs properly coming from Legion.

You know, people don't forget just because they have another opinion than you. Don't forget that.

Oh please, when legion was current it was the worst expansion ever, like bfa is now. When time comes, people will praise it up to heavens.

And for the love of the god, there is no RNG in azerite gear. You can get them from raid just like tier sets in legion.

And no, "most" people do not agree with you.
In BfA i can do 1 M+ a week and pretty much raidlog. And I could do that after 3-4 weeks of every major patch.
In Legion at no point I was able to do that because of how ridiculous was AP.

[thunderdragon2]

i was fine with bfa till the corruptions, shadowlands looks too good for me to pass up, just need to find a new guild

[unbound]

Is Shadowlands redeeming WoW for you after BFA?

I'll let you know after Shadowlands is out. People are *always* hyped at the new release. People were very hyped about WoD and BfA...and then when we got our hands on it, subscriptions severely nose-dived.

As the old saying goes, never judge a book by its cover...never judge a game by its press releases and hype.

[Doffen]

Seconded, honestly people don't realize how much effort you would have to put in legion to even get average power for your alt. Meanwhile i geared up alt in 2 weeks and killed M Nzoth with it while being in middle of the pack.

Just want to add here, you joined that guild day after they killed Nzoth first time, then you killed it 4 weeks later. 26% percentile. How much did you pay to do it? Just as last time? Left the other guild because they couldn't do it I suppose?

Why do you come to this forum to lie about your "achievements" and to "prove it's easier in BfA" LMAO? You bought corruption. So as you could buy legendaries. Just proves how disingenuous you are. Like "so much effort do get powered up in Legion" while having to do that times 4 in 8.3, while being boosted to kill last boss

[Captainn]

They're unpruning and acting like they're giving us a big gift. Nah not particularly excited.

[Shoggoth]

No, simply no.

[Doffen]

Oh please, when legion was current it was the worst expansion ever, like bfa is now. When time comes, people will praise it up to heavens.

Not at all. Not even close to how the complaints are in BfA. And no, BfA will not be praised at all lol. The complaints in legion was mostly about ONE thing, and that wasn't really complained about after 7.1.5/7.2. Did you forget? How many power ups are people complaining about even at this time?

And for the love of the god, there is no RNG in azerite gear. You can get them from raid just like tier sets in legion.

No rng in Azerite gear. The vendor wants a word with you. Or wait 24 weeks for getting all 3 bis pieces.

And no, "most" people do not agree with you.

Pretty confident that most people like Legion more than BfA yeah. I would strongly expect it to be 80 to 20 ration. At least.

In BfA i can do 1 M+ a week and pretty much raidlog. And I could do that after 3-4 weeks of every major patch.
In Legion at no point I was able to do that because of how ridiculous was AP.

Strange, I did that from 7.1.5 since there was only AP to grind up, and the made sure that only the first points after added concordance and the RNGrucible were done within a week. Every point after that didn't matter. You know each point in the neck increase your dps with 0.5% right? Concordance 0.1% at max.

While in BfA I have not gotten my bis corruption yet and not gotten the bis Azerite Armor yet because the system is so full of flaws. Get it easy in raids? Give me a break.

[dewd]

from what is available and if nothing groundbreaking changes or is announced: no. their gamble to reinvent 36 specs with every expansion didnt work from what is known so far. it worked amazingly for almost all specs in my eyes with legion where i was hella sceptical too.

as a shadow and enhancement main shadowlands looks to be the worst time ever (except for vanilla) to play these 2 specs in pve

[Phoenixphire]

No, not at all.
I didn't hate BFA, but it got very boring very quickly.
I'm interested in following news of Shadowlands, but there has been nothing as of yet, that has made me excited to come back to it.
I have been playing since vanilla, and Shadowlands is the first expansion I haven't instantly preordered.

[Chromell]

Too soon to say, isn't it? But I guess you mean if its impression is enough to redeem WoW? Don't really agree with the redeem part as I don't think the game failed as a whole (despite BfA and everything). I'm certainly excited about Shadowlands however, and from what we can get from it, it seems it's to be going to be better than BfA while taking some good aspects from Legion. Only time will tell though.

[Malix Farwin]

Legion was a snorefest other than mage tower

Thats a personal opinion however objectively it was a success.

[prwraith]

Thats a personal opinion however objectively it was a success.

For its time I suppose. Relative to actual success though it's just the most recent in a line of bad expansions.

[Kralljin]

It can hardly do that before i played it.

Some things are going in the right direction (such as Loot), but also fear that Blizzard simply taking notes from Classic in a few instances leads to another slew of issues, because they've added a lot of systems to the game over the years that do not work with a more "classic-esque" approach at all time (Prime contender being M+ here).

Also, Covenant system.

If there is one thing i am so damn tired off, it's getting a new system presented to me that requires hours of research (unless you're lazy and you simply want to copy & paste what FAQ's tell you to), is a balance nightmare and due to some initial shortcomings undergoes an overhaul over course of the expansion.

[Puri]

How would I know without playing it first?

[Mardux]

Personally I absolutely hated BFA.

I don't think any game or movie has ever pissed me off so much. Now with Shadowlands there are new features that I do admit look nice but after BFA it feels... wrong to me.

Especially since everything in BFA felt as though was pushed through so we can get this expansion.
How do you guys think about Shadowlands?

Was it all worth it with all these spoilers?

Probably not. It will most likely be the same as bfa, and legion, and wod, and every other expansion since vanilla. Doesnt need redemption or to be redeeming.

[Musta]

Not yet...

[Mardux]

Oh please, when legion was current it was the worst expansion ever, like bfa is now. When time comes, people will praise it up to heavens.

And for the love of the god, there is no RNG in azerite gear. You can get them from raid just like tier sets in legion.

And no, "most" people do not agree with you.
In BfA i can do 1 M+ a week and pretty much raidlog. And I could do that after 3-4 weeks of every major patch.
In Legion at no point I was able to do that because of how ridiculous was AP.

You could do exactly that in legion. Lol.

[Seylene]

It possibly could but it will be the first expansion I don't buy beforehand and instead wait to see where it goes. I have high hopes for it but first and foremost it will need to address some of the concerns from the War of Thorns so if they botch the Tyrande and NE soul story then no amount of Torgast fun can counter the disappointment.