Tearing down historical statues the European edition

[Themius]

Yes that's what I meant. If there are no people whose values statues represent there is no one to defend them since the police seem to be refusing to defend any kind of property these days

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Treating everyone equally is exactly how you achieve equality. If you want equity though, that's a different story

This is a fantasy that lives in the minds Of the majority.

[Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang]

Who knows? Is there a statue of that America guy anywhere in the US?

There is apparently just one, in DC :

[Vorkreist]

No kidding. Here's my guess of the future;

People of 2020: Destroys the historical statues of all imperfect people with noticeable flaws.

People of 2320: Why on Earth did our ancestors do that? It was never reasonable to hold historical figures to modern standards.

2030: Why stop at statues? Lets rewrite history and remove any non perfectly pc figure.

[ati87]

2030: Why stop at statues? Lets rewrite history and remove any non perfectly pc figure.

If you are worried about history then I suggest you read up a bit

https://www.britannica.com/biography/Robert-E-Lee
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_E._Lee
https://kids.britannica.com/kids/art...t-E-Lee/353371

Only PC folks I see here are those that defend figures who even in there own time where horrible people and who's legacy involves nothing that deserve a statue.

[Felya]

2030: Why stop at statues? Lets rewrite history and remove any non perfectly pc figure.

Glorifying slavers is rewriting history.

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Only PC folks I see here are those that defend figures who even in there own time where horrible people and who's legacy involves nothing that deserve a statue.

They are better, because they are white knighting inanimate objects.

[Grapemask]

2030: Why stop at statues? Lets rewrite history and remove any non perfectly pc figure.

This is a slippery slope logical fallacy.

Even so, history will be fine without statues. We have hundreds of statues from antiquity, but historians are sad that we lost the works in the Library of Alexandria. Statues are the definition of a biased retelling of history.

I wish you valiant statue defenders would take a deep breath and think about what is actually lost from removing a statue. Other than maybe people who maintain statues for a living, is a single person's life affected by the removal of a statue? Will even one person have their life changed by it? Is there an argument for keeping a statue that isn't the same argument hoarders make for keeping a stack of old newspapers? Even if we enter some crazy world where we tear down every statue on the planet yesterday, build new ones today, and tomorrow we're outraged by those statues and repeat the whole process again - will anything actually be harmed? If anything, the economy will probably be pretty bustling with all these new jobs for making statues and cleaning up statue remains.

And if nothing else, at least take a step back and examine the rest of the crowd's positions on these statues. If there are virtually zero people on Team Statue who are the subjects negatively affected by them, and virtually all of the people on Team Statue have nothing to personally gain from it remaining, maybe that should be some indicator on the right course of action.

[Felya]

This is a slippery slope logical fallacy.

It’s also interesting to consider what monuments mean in SciFi. You go from some that advanced passed any need for these object, like Star Wars and star track. Then there are those like planet of the apes, where it acts as an identifier of a new world, being the old world. I don’t believe there is writing that focuses on, I saw the statue and it opened up my eyes. That’s an ace of base song...

Then, you can also look at how these statues were treated, when civilizations perished. An archeologist that finds a statue of a figure, will assume that it’s a respected and prominent figure. It would take discovery of text, perhaps war memorabilia, to get an accurate depiction of this being a statue of slave owners that lost a war attacking the very country where the statue resides, 150 years prior to this statue standing. It would be a historic anomaly, that misrepresents the past, people are claiming this is protecting.

Edit: Another example, if we were to have a statue to remember Trump, beyond his giant corporate labels on “ivory” towers. Can it be with him in a bunker corner, with an iPhone in his hands?

[Yadryonych]

This is a slippery slope logical fallacy.

What a foreshadowing of what is to come next in the very same post.

Even so, history will be fine without statues. We have hundreds of statues from antiquity, but historians are sad that we lost the works in the Library of Alexandria. Statues are the definition of a biased retelling of history.

I wish you valiant statue defenders would take a deep breath and think about what is actually lost from removing a statue. Other than maybe people who maintain statues for a living, is a single person's life affected by the removal of a statue? Will even one person have their life changed by it? Is there an argument for keeping a statue that isn't the same argument hoarders make for keeping a stack of old newspapers? Even if we enter some crazy world where we tear down every statue on the planet yesterday, build new ones today, and tomorrow we're outraged by those statues and repeat the whole process again - will anything actually be harmed? If anything, the economy will probably be pretty bustling with all these new jobs for making statues and cleaning up statue remains.

And if nothing else, at least take a step back and examine the rest of the crowd's positions on these statues. If there are virtually zero people on Team Statue who are the subjects negatively affected by them, and virtually all of the people on Team Statue have nothing to personally gain from it remaining, maybe that should be some indicator on the right course of action.

Every single piece of this elaborate verbiage (actually repeating the same point again and again so many times) can be applied to not just statues therefore can be easily dismissed with some other verbiage:

First they came for the statues, and I did not speak out—
Because I have nothing to personally gain from it remaining.

[Milchshake]

Hopefully Europe gets more statues of people that fought fascists.


I love this one because it upsets all of the Milosevic fanboys.

[Grapemask]

What a foreshadowing of what is to come next in the very same post.



Every single piece of this elaborate verbiage (actually repeating the same point again and again so many times) can be applied to not just statues therefore can be easily dismissed with some other verbiage:

First they came for the statues, and I did not speak out—
Because I have nothing to personally gain from it remaining.

This is yet another slippery slope fallacy. I think if we've learned anything here, it's that we can't appeal to the reason of people who aren't reasonable.

[Yadryonych]

we can't appeal to the reason of people who aren't reasonable.

Yeah, too bad not everyone is as gullible and manipulable as necessary for progress. I'd suggest gulag or re-education for those but you progressive folks seem to be more of a gas chamber guys

[Grapemask]

Yeah, too bad not everyone is as gullible and manipulable as necessary for progress. I'd suggest gulag or re-education for those but you progressive folks seem to be more of a gas chamber guys

You can let the racist statues go. You don't have to die on that hill.

[Ihavewaffles]

When will you disband the Party of Slavery, Democrats?

When will u burn your karl marx n che guevara t-shirts for what they said about black people?

[Felya]

Yeah, too bad not everyone is as gullible and manipulable as necessary for progress. I'd suggest gulag or re-education for those but you progressive folks seem to be more of a gas chamber guys

Why not statues? Why don’t you build more statues to re-educate? You act like removing statues of slavers, will make people forget slavery.

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When will you disband the Party of Slavery, Democrats?

When will u burn your karl marx n che guevara t-shirts for what they said about black people?

Start a petition... go and express your freedom.

[Mayhem]

2030: Why stop at statues? Lets rewrite history and remove any non perfectly pc figure.

THE US IS ALREADY DOING THAT WITH THEIR SCHOOL SYSTEM!

/allcaps4fs

[ranzino]

new Lenin statue in germany erected; but situated on privat property, so meeh

https://www.stern.de/politik/deutsch...n-9309064.html

[s_bushido]

When will you disband the Party of Slavery, Democrats?

Hey, maybe if we had more statues, this sort of historical illiteracy wouldn't be so ubiquitous among American conservatives.

[Ivanstone]

Hey, maybe if we had more statues, this sort of historical illiteracy wouldn't be so ubiquitous among American conservatives.

I think what the US needs is a proper statue of LBJ. In one hand he's signing the CRA. In the other hand he's holding his big cock that's pissing all over Ho Che Minh. An appropriate and historically accurate rendition of a man who did both great good and great evil.

[Yadryonych]

You can let the racist statues go. You don't have to die on that hill.

I don't really care about confederate statues but if I won't speak out for them today, tomorrow they will come for something else. Then for someone. And, ultimately, for me

[cubby]

I don't leally care about confederate statues but is I won't speak out for them today, tomorrow they will come for something else. Then for someone. And, ultimately, for me

That's really not how it works, nor how that saying goes. You realize you're quoting a Jewish proverb from WWII in defense of not removing statues honoring racial suppression.